Anybody going to chelate the iron or attempt to?

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Anybody going to chelate the iron or attempt to?

Postby Merlyn » Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:49 pm

I posted the following in another reply, but I thought I would repeat it here... I am just wondering and of course I don't know the answer is whether one could chelate the iron out of the arteries. Iron is also high in Parkinson's and they have been trying to develop iron chelators for years for Parkinson's that they could use without harm but I gather it is tricky to chelate iron out of the brain. There are two different drugs available. But I find the IP6 an interesting product and I am going to try it soon as I get in the mail. One of my concerns with Zamboni's approach, not that there is anything wrong with it LOL, is that if we have a new form or an unidentified form of hemochromatosis, then iron will have collected in organs like the thyroid, the liver, the heart, the pancreas... and in order to get rid of for symptoms it might be useful to get iron out of their organs beside the brain. Just my musings...




One of the main health writers on IP6 is Bill Sardi, and he says that it has gotten the wrong reputation as an anti-nutrient. He wrote a book called The Iron Timebomb. But he touts the ability of phytic acid to chelate iron without affecting nutrient profile.

http://www.life-enthusiast.com/index/Ar ... Bill_Sardi

I have ordered this stuff but I am waiting for it to arrive. I live in Canada and I order a lot of my stuff from iHERB..com. So I cannot attest to it just yet, but I am very much looking forward to trying it.

http://hemochromatosiscny.org/irish_at_ ... n_overload

One in six Irish people carry a gene for hemochromatosis... my is of Irish/Scot and I have never had a Dr. asked me if I should be or wanted to be tested for iron overload. If you ever you Dr. 's website, look up Parkinson's and iron because that condition also has high iron in the brain. Dr. Mercola if he has any credence recommends IP6 to chelate iron, says it is effective. That is one of my questions about the iron depositions in the veins and brain, as to whether one can chelate out the iron. They use IP6 very heavily in the autism community, because some of those kids are iron toxic.

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chelating iron

Postby jak7ham9 » Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:28 am

my feet are often purpleand cold too . My hands too. this is improvrd dramatically by any consumption of alcohol temporarily (not much of adrinker alcohol works as vasodialtor) Also high dose niacin works vasodialtor for aprox an hour not only do I get warm hands and feet also most of my tightness disapears and I can walk around and even jump a bit of course this disappears fairly rapidly. Niacin only works as vasodialtor for small period of time where levels are raising. HBOT works similarly for a short period of time following I am looser more energetic etc. This all points clearlt to circulation and oxygen. I am still not sure why people have problems believing this. I do think though that constant chelation with edta and desferroxamine should probably be followed by all suffers even as preventitive measure after operation. to stop reoccurrence I have personally seen people with 80% clogged arteries cleared within a year through chelation and tested by ct scans. I am going to start using this myself until I can get operation. Insurance will cover chelation for heavy metal poisoning removal which in this case it really is. Warning I had weird reaction last week with addition of 30G viatim c to edta my neck shoulders got really tight and I got something I can only describe as lock jaw (similar ex tetnus) This only lasted for a couple hours after chelation but made me think of iron reaction
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Postby danegirl » Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:57 am

Can someone please tell me what "chelation" means?? I don't know the word, and can't find it in my dictionary. Thanx.
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Postby Merlyn » Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:04 pm

Chelation means "to claw"... certain substances will attach to other substances and form another complex that the body can then excrete.
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Postby Merlyn » Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:08 pm

I am continuing on the IP6, which I am tolerating very well, although I can't say for sure it's doing anything as far as getting rid of iron. I did have one man on the metalslist which I have been on for years say that he used this stuff to get rid of his prostate cancer. He suspects he is now anemic from the way he feels, but he is continuing for a while before getting another ferritin test because he suspects that his doctor would not be approving. The theory being that cancer needs iron to exist. But all of his PSA numbers are way way down and he attributes this to the IP6.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18400414
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Postby Loobie » Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:49 pm

I'm just going to drink green tea every day!
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Postby ozarkcanoer » Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:53 pm

Lew... Hubby and I just started green tea this week too !! Every morning for ages and ages we have made a pot of black tea for breakfast. But this week we converted to green tea.

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Postby Merlyn » Tue Dec 22, 2009 5:23 pm

I wonder if this is why my grandfather got rid of his cancer... he used to drink pots of green tea every day, he went in for his appendix, but when they opened him up he was so riddled with cancer, they never did anything, but sent him home to die. He just kept drinking his green tea and lived another dozen years! If green tea gets rid of iron, and iron feeds cancer, maybe it worked.

For me, I am Primary Progressive, and I don't know if Zamboni is really right, but angioplasty might not be possible in my case anyway. So I will continue with the IP6 and see if it does anything.

Right now, I am reading The Bronze Killer by Marie Warder who started the Canadian Hemochromatosis Society and the international Association of Hemochromatosis Societies, and the Hemochromatosis Society Of South Africa... it is a fascinating read, this woman was so instrumental in educating people about iron loading. She mentions the varcies (enlarged neck veins and esophageal veins) that are implicated with hemochromatosis and the buildup of iron. She mentions swollen ankle/feet, fine textured hair? (Indeed, that is me), sore joints, overwhelming fatigue, mood swings, all kinds of symptoms that doctors did not recognize. They thought hemochromatosis happened to maybe one in 20,000 or 100,000 cases! They called it bronze diabetes, because a lot of iron can destroy the pancreas and your ability to use insulin...
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Postby Sawdoggie » Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:20 pm

A very easy way to get rid of excess iron is to phlebotomize. This is the standard treatment for hemochromatosis. Admittingly it would be hard to get a doctor to go along with intense phlebotomy for a treatment of MS. For a less intensive option, visit your local blood bank. There may be some issues with the various MS meds. The doctor I see for my hemochromatosis (yes, I got the lucky draw, HHC and MS) has found all of the articles I sent him dealing with CCSVI very interesting and has wondered aloud if phlebotomy could be an effective treatment for MS in light of the iron accumulation and associated damage. He also, in light of how he sees problems in blood draining from various internal organs, thinks that CCSVI makes a lot of sense and has taken a real interest even though it is out of his specialty area.
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Postby jenf » Wed Dec 23, 2009 5:26 am

I've been clelating shortly after learning about CCSVI. I've been drinking green tea, taking IP-6, D3, Milk Thistle, and CoQ10. I did look into donating blood and spoke with the American Red Cross who advised me that they now accept blood from MS'ers. However, I didn't ask if it included those on CRABs (I'm on LDN)...
Jen

RRMS - dx 06/09
LDN - 4.5mg 06/09-present
Copaxone - 06/10-09/10
Avonex - 06/12-06/12

Late Stage Lyme - 12/10
Too many meds to list!!

Remember, today is the tomorrow you worried about yesterday..
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dosages

Postby jmhill79 » Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:02 pm

Just wonder as far as the supplements you guys/gals are taking what mg are you taking of each. Thanks.
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Postby Johnson » Thu Dec 24, 2009 1:17 am

I'm very curious if anyone goes on an extreme chelation regimen, about any "side effects", such as any corollary exacerbations, increase in intensity of any existing symptoms, or the opposite. I wonder if binding the iron back into the blood stream, when it really has limited return to heart, might actually do much more damage in new locations in the brain.

It's just something that niggles at me, as I am fairly certain that very high doses of fibrin-scavenging enzymes have triggered an unusually looonng attack for me. Either that, or I am going SP. My idea is that the fibrin plaques are actually protective scarring at BBB breech sites, and that the enzymes may have re-opened the breech, and permitted more bad blood through. It's just my own wild idea, but I tend to novel thinking, after all. I can't seem to find any publication, or hypothesis on this one.

edit - It would be interesting to know whether you have been liberated or not before you start(ed) chelation. The two groups might have different outcomes.

/armchair neurologistic musings
/edit
My name is not really Johnson. MSed up since 1993
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Postby Merlyn » Thu Dec 24, 2009 1:38 pm

I think one of the dangers with intense chelation can be the fact that most chelators mobilize more than one metal... including mercury, cadmium, nickel etc. Mercury can be redistributed if not quickly excreted, and that might be difficult if one's liver is overloaded with iron... all heavy metal toxicity affects the liver detoxification pathways. I tested very high in mercury, but which came first the chicken or the egg? Did the mercury shut down my liver (back in the year 2000, I basically flunked my liver detoxification profile from Great Smokies Laboratories, now Genova labs, showed very low glutathione and SOD in addition to very slow clearance of any xenobiotic)

http://www.genovadiagnostics.com/files/ ... Report.pdf

I have been trying to chelate Mercury and lead for many years, not successfully... now I am wondering whether my difficulties were related to excess iron. I agree you have to be careful, redistributing mercury is no fun and to get more neurological damage if things go wrong.
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Postby shye » Thu Dec 24, 2009 3:17 pm

Johnson,
What do you mean by "bad blood "?-- Chelation would end up increasing the diameter of the blood vessel, by chelating the mineral that is attached to the vessel-- the attached clots get absorbed, and the mineral with the chelate product gets out of the body via the kidneys.
AS I see it, it would be similar to CCSVI--although CCSVI is only vein, chelation is vein and arteries.

But not sure what you mean by "bad blood" getting into endo with chelation
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Postby Johnson » Thu Dec 24, 2009 5:02 pm

shye wrote:Johnson,
What do you mean by "bad blood "?-- Chelation would end up increasing the diameter of the blood vessel, by chelating the mineral that is attached to the vessel-- the attached clots get absorbed, and the mineral with the chelate product gets out of the body via the kidneys.
AS I see it, it would be similar to CCSVI--although CCSVI is only vein, chelation is vein and arteries.

But not sure what you mean by "bad blood" getting into endo with chelation


Hi shye,

I may be horribly incorrect, but as far as I know, the iron does not accumulate in veins, but in organ tissues - brain, liver, spleen, etc. (and subcutaneous fascia in the case of CVI in the legs), and causes tissue damage/death there. In necropsy (of MS types), the iron deposits are found in the brain, not in the veins.

The "bad blood" I refer to is the de-oxygenated blood that re-fluxes into the brain because it has not an effective outlet through the jugulars. My feeling is that, if one chelates the iron from the brain, back into cerebral blood vessels, which cannot properly drain, one might excite more sites within the brain. Rather like poking a hornets' nest - it's not so dangerous if you don't mess with it.
My name is not really Johnson. MSed up since 1993
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