Fish oil supplements won't help in Multiple Sclerosis: study

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Fish oil supplements won't help in Multiple Sclerosis: study

Postby MSUK » Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:34 am

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Omega-3 fatty acid supplements don't appear to have any benefit on multiple sclerosis (MS), according a study by Norwegian researchers.

Multiple sclerosis affects about 2.5 million people worldwide. Some prior research has indicated that omega-3 fatty acid supplements might have anti-inflammatory effects that could benefit those with the disease, according to background information in the study.

Omega-3 fatty acids are found in cold-water fish, such as salmon, and in fish oil supplements.

"Our study provides evidence that omega-3 supplementation has no beneficial effect on MS, neither given alone nor in combination with interferon treatment," said lead researcher Dr. Oivind Torkildsen, from Haukeland University Hospital, in Bergen. Interferon is a standard drug given to MS patients.... Read More - http://www.msrc.co.uk/index.cfm/fuseact ... pageid/721
MS-UK - http://www.ms-uk.org/
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Re: Fish oil supplements won't help in Multiple Sclerosis: s

Postby tedhutchinson » Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:07 pm

This trial only used 2 g of omega 3 daily. It did NOT make any effort to reduce omega 6 levels.

Chris Kresser has a series of articles on omega 3 omega 6 ratio that will help you understand better why this trial was doomed to failure

If we think about being poor and in debt as an analogy for our omega 3 omega 6 economy.
The anti inflammatory omega 3 represents income and the pro inflammatory omega 6 represents expenditure and debt.

If you already have too much debt and current expenditure a little more money Say £2 a day, will make very little difference because the bank/taxman/debtors will have first dabs on it. ONLY after you have cleared your debts and your current income matches current expenditure will £2 a day extra build to provide significant savings benefit.

Most UK adults will have omega 6 about 20 ~30 times higher than their omega 3 levels so until the omega 6 is reduced no amount of omega 3 will be effective. Dr Davis of the heartscanblog uses 6000 mg per day of omega-3 fatty acids, EPA and DHA, (that's 3 times the trial amount) will drop Lp(a) after one year. Some have required two years. and Dr Davis is telling his patients to IMPROVE Vitamin D status with 10,000iu/daily, use EFFECTIVE amounts of magnesium and also use melatonin.

If you want to get out of debt you need to use all possible means to increase your income and all possible routes to cut your expenditure. Your plan has to cover every option.
With your omega 6 debt/expenditure you have to find every way possible to eliminate all sources of omega 6 at the same time as using all possible routes to increase your anti inflammatory reserves. It isn't a matter of doing one or the other. You have to do EVERYTHING possible on both sides of the equation and you have to do it ALL at the same time.

Vitamin D is ongoing battle to keep 25(OH)D ABOVE 125nmol/l 50ng/ml the level at which vitamin D is most powerfully anti inflammatory. That will require at least 1000iu for every 25lbs you weigh and maybe as much as 10,000iu/daily and it will take at least a year to attain and maintain a reasonable level. Cityassays vitamin D blood spot test for £25

Magnesium requires in the region of 5 to 10 milligrams per day per kilo of ideal body weight or 2.5 to 4.5 milligrams per day per pound of ideal body weight. So someone 70kg requires at least 350mg/d and ideally a total from all sources of 700 mg. daily. So s 100mg supplement with each meal and another before bedtime will provide 400mg from supplements and the extra from food/water sources will make up the difference.

Melatonin is important not only for sleep. 400x more melatonin is produced in your digestive tract as it regulates metabolism and people who are short of melatonin (shift workers) tend to be more overweight.
Dr Davis suggests Time Release forms. The dose varies with age, with 1 mg effective in people younger than 40 years, higher doses of 3, 5, even 10 or 12 mg in older people. Sustained-release preparations also should be taken in slightly higher doses.

It isn't that on it's own omega 3 can solve your MS problems, it won't BUT reducing your inflammatory status will improve your immune function and enable your body to better fight inflammation and in doing so will reduce your pain levels and risk of further flares. But in the same way you will only get out of debt if you have a plan that takes account of maximising income streams and minimising all forms of debts and expenditures so to will it be impossible to solve your inflammation crisis by just paying attention to one small aspect of the situation by using only one form of anti inflammatory agent and too little and for too little time.

We have wasted far too much time messing around with ineffective forms and amounts it really is about time Researchers used a little common sense.
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Re: Fish oil supplements won't help in Multiple Sclerosis: s

Postby lyndacarol » Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:25 pm

Just in the last week or two results of another study were published showing no benefit of fish oil for heart disease patients who had suffered an attack in helping them to avoid another attack.
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Re: Fish oil supplements won't help in Multiple Sclerosis: s

Postby tedhutchinson » Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:58 pm

lyndacarol wrote:Just in the last week or two results of another study were published showing no benefit of fish oil for heart disease patients who had suffered an attack in helping them to avoid another attack.
Exactly, which is why we should be angry at such continuing stupidity.

If your house is on fire and there are 20 hooligans throwing petrol on the flames and only one fireman trying to put the fire out what do you think would happen.

You have to stop the hooligans adding fuel to the fire.

It's simply common sense.

I don't understand why anyone doesn't see the obvious.
It doesn't matter how many scientists waste how many thousands of pounds researching the matter it should be common sense that if you want an anti inflammatory agent to have any impact you MUST reduce the pro inflammatory inputs at the same time.
Thinking that you can use any anti inflammatory agent while not addressing the pro inflammatory situation is futile. You have to consider both sides of the equation.
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Re: Fish oil supplements won't help in Multiple Sclerosis: s

Postby jv » Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:37 am

high intake of omega-3 increases risk of developing prostate cancer
http://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/surp ... 1105052552
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Re: Fish oil supplements won't help in Multiple Sclerosis: s

Postby tedhutchinson » Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:57 am

jv wrote:high intake of omega-3 increases risk of developing prostate cancer
http://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/surp ... 1105052552

It's always a good idea to do a little research before you post online.
Have a listen to the audio clip here.
Do Omega-3 Fatty Acids Raise Prostate Cancer Risk?
If you're not taking finasteride I don't see any relevance to this study.
Doesn't seem logical to me to lump people taking finasteride in with people who don't.

There is plenty of crap Epidemiology and this is a typical example.
More hype than substance.

Although I'm the age to be concerned about PC and I've several friends with this diagnosis I keep my omega 3 and vitamin D status high and the PSA test that was done a few years ago when in hospital for a bladder related condition was very low.

A step in the right direction: vitamin D and prostate cancer One of the risk factors for PC being calcium intake. Those with higher vitamin d levels absorb more calcium hence require no calcium supplements and so calcium trafficking is minimised. If you really want to cut your risk of aggressive prostate cancer than correcting magnesium deficiency, cutting calcium supplements and correcting vitamin D deficiency are probably your best options.

I'm sure everyone is aware that the fuel that cancer cells prefer is GLUCOSE so it's not surprising that anti diabetic drug metformin or equivalent lifestyles such as low carbohydrate/paleo type diets that reduce insulin levels are associated with lower prostate cancer incidence.
Obesity, body composition, and prostate cancer
Lose weight with a low carbohydrate diet and STOP feeding cancer it's favourite fuel.
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Re: Fish oil supplements won't help in Multiple Sclerosis: s

Postby jv » Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:51 am

Fatty fish is associated with an increased risk to reach EDSS 6 in progressive forms of ms
http://www.msrc.co.uk/index.cfm/fuseact ... ageid/2942
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Re: Fish oil supplements won't help in Multiple Sclerosis: s

Postby tedhutchinson » Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:10 am

jv wrote:Fatty fish is associated with an increased risk to reach EDSS 6 in progressive forms of ms
http://www.msrc.co.uk/index.cfm/fuseact ... ageid/2942
Can't get that link to download but I think you are referencing this study Alcohol, coffee, fish, smoking and disease progression in multiple sclerosis which I haven't read yet. I will comment when I have read it. If you click the link it should download a PDF full text to your PC.

My first point is that this relates to FISH consumption which may be different from FISH OIL consumption. This paper Shows that the Belgium'sare partial to eating oily fish
With regard to fatty fish consumption, almost one quarter of the CVD+ respondents claimed to eat salmon, herring, mackerel and/or eel at least once a week, versus only 13% of CVD- respondents.
It's likely this pattern of consumption also applied to the MS study. Cooked whole fish is different from fish oil in that fish oil has pollutants removed and the fish and the oils it contains will not have been subject to heat treatment. It could be that the heating/preserving/smoking of oily fish could damage some of the fragile bonds in fish oils.

It could also be that they use A lot of farmed fish

Chronic consumption of farmed salmon containing persistent organic pollutants causes insulin resistance and obesity
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Re: Fish oil supplements won't help in Multiple Sclerosis: s

Postby Abe » Thu May 17, 2012 7:24 am

tedhutchinson makes some good points in this thread.

Research is frequently poor and poorly reported!

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I often wonder about the effects of cooking fatty fish such as salmon and mackerel.

Does anyone know if smoked mackerel effects the omega 3 content?
How about canned fish such as canned mackerel - what is the cooking process and how does it effect the omega 3 content?
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