Fasting

A board to discuss various diet-centered approaches to treating or controlling Multiple Sclerosis, e.g., the Swank Diet

Fasting

Postby brm » Fri May 31, 2013 7:11 am

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone has experience with some kind of fasting, like alternate day fasting, 5:2 fasting, or even longer fasts. For instance, how many hours at a time did you refrain from eating? And of course, did you notice any effects (positive or negative) on your MS?

In principle it should have a beneficial influence on your health, but whether this is so for pwMS I do not know... But it has me interested.

Thanks,
brm
User avatar
brm
Getting to Know You...
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2009 3:00 pm

Advertisement

Re: Fasting

Postby brm » Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:09 am

I saw his horizon documentary called "Eat, fast and live longer". Very interesting stuff, it was that show that got me interested in all this.

Thanks,
brm
User avatar
brm
Getting to Know You...
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2009 3:00 pm

Re: Fasting

Postby lyndacarol » Sun Jun 02, 2013 6:53 am

brm wrote:I was wondering if anyone has experience with some kind of fasting, like alternate day fasting, 5:2 fasting, or even longer fasts. For instance, how many hours at a time did you refrain from eating? And of course, did you notice any effects (positive or negative) on your MS?

In principle it should have a beneficial influence on your health, but whether this is so for pwMS I do not know... But it has me interested.

The Michael Mosley program, Eat, Fast and Live Longer, is excellent. I do think it can have benefits for people with MS because it reduces the insulin level.
My hypothesis: excess insulin (hyperinsulinemia) plays a major role in MS, as developed in my initial post: http://www.thisisms.com/forum/general-discussion-f1/topic1878.html "Insulin – Could This Be the Key?"
User avatar
lyndacarol
Family Elder
 
Posts: 2385
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:00 pm

Re: Fasting

Postby NHE » Sun Jun 02, 2013 1:36 pm

brm wrote:I saw his horizon documentary called "Eat, fast and live longer". Very interesting stuff, it was that show that got me interested in all this.

Thanks,
brm


That was it. Sorry about that. I got the shows mixed up.
User avatar
NHE
Volunteer Moderator
 
Posts: 3418
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2004 3:00 pm

Re: Fasting

Postby Squeakycat » Sun Jun 02, 2013 7:30 pm

There is a good theoretical reason that fasting would help in MS as well as many other diseases and aging: It stimulates autophagy, the intracellular process that deal with injury and infection and recycles material within cells.

New England Journal of Medicine
Source URL: http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc1303158

Autophagy in Human Health and Disease
N Engl J Med 2013; 368:1845-1846
May 9, 2013DOI: 10.1056/NEJMc1303158


Choi et al. (Feb. 14 issue)1 describe autophagy activation in several human diseases. However, a worthy point was missed, since autophagic function in autoimmune diseases was not considered. A growing body of evidence provides support for the involvement of autophagy in immunity and autoimmunity.2,3 Indeed, autophagy is known to have a role in thymic selection of T cells, survival of B cells, immune tolerance, and antigen presentation.2 It enables intracellular self-antigens to enter major-histocompatibility-complex class II pockets, which are subsequently recognized by activated T cells. Accordingly, autophagic dysfunction may promote the development of systemic autoimmune diseases such as lupus,4 and a failure in autophagy may play a role in autoinflammatory and autoimmune diseases such as the tumor necrosis factor receptor–associated periodic syndrome and Crohn's disease.3,5 Moreover, several allelic variants of autophagy-related genes have been linked to autoimmunity4 and autoinflammation.2

Data are lacking to clarify these issues; however, the autophagic process is probably involved in the establishment and maintenance of immune tolerance and the proper effectiveness of the immune system.

Andrea Doria, M.D.
Mariele Gatto, M.D.
Leonardo Punzi, M.D.
University of Padua, Padua, Italy

We strongly agree with Doria et al. about the prospect that autophagy may contribute to the pathogenesis of autoimmune disorders. Autophagy can exert profound effects on inflammation and the regulation of innate and adaptive immunity. Indeed, autophagy can regulate core inflammatory responses (e.g., interferon production, inflammasome activation, and cytokine maturation) and contribute to efferocytosis (removal of dead or dying cells), antigen presentation, B-cell survival, regulation of antibody production, and T-cell maturation1; these processes could affect immune tolerance and the progression of autoimmune disease.

In our article, we mention that single-nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs) of ATG5, an autophagy-related gene (ATG), are associated with systemic lupus erythematosus, an autoimmune disease, and that SNPs in ATG16L1, nucleotide-binding oligomerization domain–containing protein 2 (NOD2), and immunity-related p47 guanosine triphosphatase M protein (IRGM) genes are associated with Crohn's disease, an autoinflammatory condition. However, the effect of these SNPs on autophagy remains unclear. We add that autoimmunity develops in mice that are deficient in thymic Atg5.1 Furthermore, human and murine lupus T cells have impaired autophagy and increased activation of the mammalian (or mechanistic) target of rapamycin.2 The link between autophagy and autoimmunity remains incompletely understood, but it warrants extensive investigation for therapeutic development. We regret that we could not cite all relevant literature.

Augustine M.K. Choi, M.D.
Stefan W. Ryter, Ph.D.
Brigham and Women's Hospital, Boston, MA
amchoi@rics.bwh.harvard.edu

Beth Levine, M.D.
University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center, Dallas, TX

The expert in autophagy who has published a number of papers is Beth Levine.
User avatar
Squeakycat
Family Elder
 
Posts: 410
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:00 pm
Location: Yehud, Israel

Re: Fasting

Postby CureOrBust » Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:27 am

I am doing the 5:2 diet; about 4 weeks now. Cant really say it has helped or hindered my MS. However, on the fasting days, I really lack energy if I allow myself to just sit around. I am not OW with a BMI of around 20.2; admittedly after loosing 3 or 4 kilo's in the first few weeks...

I am doing it for general health from the doco.
User avatar
CureOrBust
Family Elder
 
Posts: 2934
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 2:00 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Fasting

Postby ffjosh » Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:51 am

I do a slightly different form of fasting.

8 hours of feeding then 16 hours of fast.

So

11:30 AM (lunch time at work) - 7:30pm I eat. I try to keep my macros around 2,000 Cals (on a cut) and a 50 30 20 split between protein, fats and carbs.

So far I have lost more weight then I ever have. Surprising my strength has gone up too!
ffjosh
Newbie
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:17 am

Re: Fasting

Postby Stillhaha » Thu May 15, 2014 8:13 am

I am very interested in fasting to relieve my MS. Loren Lockman claims some success in relieving MS with long term water fasts (21-42 days) paired with a low fat raw vegan diet. I want to give it a try.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzWyiYUu ... ata_player
_________________
dx PPMS 10/2011
Stillhaha
Family Member
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:45 pm
Location: The Villages, FL

Re: Fasting

Postby wildguygoche » Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:26 pm

Hey all,

I have done some fasting and thought I'd contribute my experiences. Fasting does some interesting things in the body. The first article speaks about fasting and MS. The second speaks about fasting "resetting" the immune system.

What I have noticed is that I generally feel like crap when I fast for two days. The second day is always the hardest. Much more difficult than day three and four. My understanding is that the misery comes from the fat stores releasing compounds and chemicals that have been stored up. Fat is like the polar ice cap of your body. It stores all kinds of "toxins."

Also, if you have a mainly carb-based diet, it seems that the liver and pancreas are not very "practiced" at secreting glucagon. Glucagon is the opposing chemical to insulin. As I understand, the pancreas secretes glucagon when blood sugar drops below seventy. It signals the fat stores to release glycogen which is then sent to the liver to be converted to glucose so the brain can be fueled. If you are on a carb-based diet, your brain is used to accessing glucose (sugar) directly from your blood with minimal conversions. The body can get sugar nearly directly from any starch without the liver or pancreas.

All of this means that fasting can be very rough on the brain. Couple that with possible increased cortisol levels, and fasting can be...interesting.

Yet, I feel that for me, fasting is essential to my health. I do a water, probiotic, and digestive enzyme fast for 3-4 days and feel like superman afterward. But I only do it once a year or so.

http://www.webmd.com/multiple-sclerosis ... -starve-ms
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/scien ... 06168.html
wildguygoche
Newbie
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:49 am
Location: Portland, OR

Re: Fasting

Postby Kronk » Sun Jun 08, 2014 11:52 am

I read the article below a while back and decided fasting is generally not a good idea with any auto-immune disease as it has been shown to INCREASE lymphocyte proliferation. More white blood cells in your system is a bad thing.

What is interesting is that this study found that manipulating the amounts of unsaturated to saturated fatty acids had a potent inhibitory effect on lymphocyte proliferation. Basically reduction in saturated fat and an increase in unsaturated fat meant less white blood cells.

I am on the Swank diet but I don't restrict my unsaturated fats. I also consume 3,000 to 3,500 calories a day due to my metabolism and gym regimen. I get uncomfortably skinny when I drop below 3,000 a day.

Study with fatty acids and rheumatoid arthritis (an auto-immune disease)
http://rheumatology.oxfordjournals.org/ ... 8.full.pdf
Kronk
Family Elder
 
Posts: 267
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:18 pm

Re: Fasting

Postby NHE » Sun Jun 08, 2014 4:30 pm

Fasting raises blood levels of 2-buten-4-olide, an anti-inflammatory sugar which just happens to have the molecular structure of a near perfect Nrf2 activator.

general-discussion-f1/topic17487.html#p174655
User avatar
NHE
Volunteer Moderator
 
Posts: 3418
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2004 3:00 pm

Re: Fasting

Postby stanlesssteel » Thu Jun 26, 2014 12:05 am

I fast one day a week. It's a complete water fast. I don't eat the whole day and eat breakfast the next day so I wager it's a 36 hours fast.

It does wonders for my health and helps with MS symptoms. There are many studies that state 24-36 hours fast raises HGH levels 800-1000%.

At the very least it's a nice break for the body and digestive system. It's not that hard and you'll feel awesome the next few days after.
stanlesssteel
Newbie
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2014 12:02 am

Re: Fasting

Postby leonardo » Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:25 am

there are some studies available on fasting and ms (thanks to muslims who have the Ramadan - 30 day fasting)

http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2377/14/56

no side effects were found but no "breakthorugh" either
leonardo
Family Member
 
Posts: 62
Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:56 am


Return to Diet

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users


Contact us | Terms of Service