Has ANYONE reversed their MS BESIDES Dr Wahls?

A board to discuss various diet-centered approaches to treating or controlling Multiple Sclerosis, e.g., the Swank Diet

Re: Has ANYONE reversed their MS BESIDES Dr Wahls?

Postby jimmylegs » Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:57 am

last study I saw showed pescetarians were the best off in terms of having lowest disease risk. wise to limit gluten and dairy.
good idea to add seafood to a largely vegan routine! especially options that provide zinc. whfoods advises one serving of shellfish per week to maintain adequate zinc status.

Oyster and Clam Chowder
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=recipe&dbid=32
"This dish was created to provide you with a great tasting and easy way to boost your body with an abundance of zinc. Eat this once a week and you will have no worries about getting this important mineral in your diet. "
odd sx? no dx? check w/ dietitian
DRI=MINIMUM eg bit.ly/1vgQclQ
99% don't meet these. meds/lifestyle can affect levels
status can be low in ms & other cond'ns
'but my results are normal'. typical panels don't test all
deficits occur in 'normal' range
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Re: Has ANYONE reversed their MS BESIDES Dr Wahls?

Postby pawel96 » Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:52 am

In general I try to follow the Wahls diet. No dairy, very little gluten. I also try to limit saturated fats, however not rigorously < 15g/d. The effects after 1.5 years are that I am very lean (dropped from 72kg to 62kg). I definitely feel better since avoiding dairy, but not sure about gluten.

Anyway - last night I did sth totally anti-Wahls and anti-Swank. I went to a hamburger bar, ordered 2 nice burgers (w/o cheese though). Effects? I slept like a baby, I am calm now, my balance is better, I feel much stronger, my mind works better.

So my opinion - there is sth in Wahls diet, definitely when it comes to foods you're allergic to. But it limits calories and in the long run that might be not so good.

Other point here - do we really need to heal MRI-wise, i.e. reducing inflammatory lesions to non-existent? Or do we want to regain function? I am starting to think reducing inflammation to nil is not the same as regaining function. Maybe there should be a balance between these two. Are healthy brains not inflamed at all?

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Re: Has ANYONE reversed their MS BESIDES Dr Wahls?

Postby stanlesssteel » Thu Jun 26, 2014 1:25 am

Any diet that includes food high in saturated fat sis doomed to fail. Wahls is like paleo light. When I ate large quantities of meat my symptoms appear.
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Re: Has ANYONE reversed their MS BESIDES Dr Wahls?

Postby snowgirl » Mon Aug 11, 2014 4:53 pm

For the past 6 months I have tried to put my family on the Wahls diet. My dad is late stage quadriplegic PPMS.
We would start and stop or cheat, or "treat" rather.
For the last 3 weeks we have done it strict, throwing out forbidden foods.
We have it down to a pattern, since due to MS we are broke and burnt out: I buy 2 boxes of spinach each week, wash and freeze into small baggies. These are morning smoothie staples. Seaweed strips are cut up and added to salads. Large salad for lunch with protein.
Not easy, can be chore to make sure we get all the elements each day. But the morning smoothie does make the amount seem less. As does steaming. We do however really enjoy the food. A paleo chicken salad is staple along with flank steak with onions, and sardines for salads.
2 days ago my dad started to move his arms from his shoulders to his elbow, both lifting and rotating and can bring his right leg up with bending his knee. He has not been able to move anything in years. Hope this keeps up/continues.
Is this the diet? We have also started a very light electronic stimulation treatment, but only on the arms and do power plate a few times per week.
Would like to hear what other improvements others have had while on the Wahls.
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Re: Has ANYONE reversed their MS BESIDES Dr Wahls?

Postby ElliotB » Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:51 pm

The Wahls Diet is a high GOOD FAT diet - grass fed meats, like wild caught fish, are high in good fats (primarily Omega 3) and the ratio of good fat (Omega 3) to bad fat (Omega 6) is correct for good health.

Unlike typical supermarket meat (grain fed), grass fed meat is very, very, very healthy for you.

Although I just read The Wahls Protocol book, I had unknowingly been pretty much following her protocol for a bit over a year (my extensive research lead me to similar conclusions she has come up with). A few months ago, I started following The Real Diet of Man diet and really stepped up the consumption of grass fed meats:

http://www.texasgrassfedbeef.com/grass- ... ery-simple
(this site is worth exploring)

I feel fantastic - full of energy and my memory is better than any time in my life.
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Re: Has ANYONE reversed their MS BESIDES Dr Wahls?

Postby ElliotB » Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:55 am

Frankly, I am surprised there is so much opposition to the Wahls Protocol. Here is a woman who was living everyone's worst nightmare, and now she is up and around, against all odds. And yes, some of her 'methods', especially diet, may be contrary to traditional thinking. (So what - at one point in time, everyone thought the world was flat!) A couple of examples: when it comes to food, meat in particular, the Swank Diet is basically totally opposite of the Wahls Diet, In fact, the Swank Diet is 'opposite' in almost every regard. When it comes to exercise, most say rest/conserve your energy while she promotes exercise. She presents a strong case against being a vegetarian. She is not the first to do so. She substantiates every aspect of her protocol, and you don't take her word for it if you don't want to. In fact, you don't have to follow her protocol at all. That is your choice. Nevertheless, she is no longer in a wheelchair and appears to be doing exceptionally well. If you doubt what she proposes, check every aspect out for yourself. FWIW, her research is not new. All of the info in her book is available on the web and in libraries if you just take the time to look for it. She just put it all together for you. I basically found the majority of what she presents myself prior to reading her book.

The bottom line is many people are doing well with her protocol. But many people do well with Dr. Swank's diet also. And the Best Bet diet. And there are many vegetarians doing great too. Go figure!
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Re: Has ANYONE reversed their MS BESIDES Dr Wahls?

Postby lyndacarol » Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:52 am

snowgirl wrote:For the past 6 months I have tried to put my family on the Wahls diet. My dad is late stage quadriplegic PPMS.
We would start and stop or cheat, or "treat" rather.
For the last 3 weeks we have done it strict, throwing out forbidden foods.
We have it down to a pattern, since due to MS we are broke and burnt out: I buy 2 boxes of spinach each week, wash and freeze into small baggies. These are morning smoothie staples. Seaweed strips are cut up and added to salads. Large salad for lunch with protein.
Not easy, can be chore to make sure we get all the elements each day. But the morning smoothie does make the amount seem less. As does steaming. We do however really enjoy the food. A paleo chicken salad is staple along with flank steak with onions, and sardines for salads.
2 days ago my dad started to move his arms from his shoulders to his elbow, both lifting and rotating and can bring his right leg up with bending his knee. He has not been able to move anything in years. Hope this keeps up/continues.
Is this the diet? We have also started a very light electronic stimulation treatment, but only on the arms and do power plate a few times per week.
Would like to hear what other improvements others have had while on the Wahls.

In addition to the private message that I sent to you, snowgirl, I will make a suggestion publicly here that might be a good idea for everyone: Keep a diary or journal of your dad's symptom changes (I am hopeful that he will continue to improve.) – memory often fails us. We are always interested in the details.

I am curious about the morning smoothies and hope you will share your recipes.

Your dad's experience refutes the idea that our MS symptoms after some time (maybe even years!) are absolutely irreversible. There is always the possibility of improvement.
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Re: Has ANYONE reversed their MS BESIDES Dr Wahls?

Postby snowgirl » Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:45 pm

Hello Lynda,
Yes a diary is a very good idea.
Since I wrote my post things have gone well. We are still on the regime. My dad really enjoys the food and says he no longer feels hungry. There are some really good paleo blogs and websites that offer recipes that fit in nicely with the Wahl's protocol.
Food is simple and delicious.
His voice is better and his nighttime choking/coughing routing has stopped.
We weren't expecting him to do cartwheels, so even these improvements have increased quality of life.
Arm movements continue each day but my dad needs to be encourage to move, he is so in the rut of not being able to. His colour is excellent. Also quite a bit of belly fat has gone down.
try to add variety but morning always the same:
I fill a blender with spinach or kale, fresh or frozen. I add 1 can coconut milk and a can of water. This is the base everyday. Then I'll add vanilla, avocado, berries, whatever I have on hand. This is breakfast. Sometimes a bit of chia seed. Somedays Cardamon. Or Acai powder. Somedays it's better tasting than others!
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Re: Has ANYONE reversed their MS BESIDES Dr Wahls?

Postby msmything » Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:19 am

I was walking with a cane most days, then started to strngthen my legs by swimming while wearing training flippers. The flippers help a lot because it you have to push going down AND up. I started reading about the results peoplewere getting with diet, and decided to give it a try. NO CHEATING. If I'm gonna do this it's gonna be all or nothing.
By the 3rd week, I could lift my right leg up to waist height for the 1st time in 2 years or so. That meant I could put a pair of pants on like a normal person, and not have to arrange them on the floor and step in to them. Small victory NOPE! My posture is better, and I can walk straight up without thinking about it. 3 weeks. I was gonna give this 3 months full on, and assess. If I continue to improve, it's my life.

The electrical stim Wahls did is nothing but a good TENS unit. They cost about 200 bucks for a good one. I have one.

That would have been necessary for her to use if she had no muscle tone at all left in her unused body parts.

Anyone have any pearls of wisdom gleaned from the 'Minding My Mitochondria'?
Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle..
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Re: Has ANYONE reversed their MS BESIDES Dr Wahls?

Postby SarahLonglands » Sun Nov 16, 2014 1:35 pm

Yes I have certainly reversed my MS but not by diet, but taking the combined antibiotic protocol for one year full-time and then three part-time. In 2003, with secondary progressive disease I found myself unable to use my right hand and arm and to be nearly unable to walk. My Addenbrooke's neurologist told my husband to arrange a nursing home for me pretty quickly. I finished the treatment in 2007 and have not taken any medication since.

Although my walking is far from perfect, I am not using a cane and I am able to work all day again as a professional fine-artist.
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow Completed Dr Charles Stratton / Dr David Wheldon abx regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years. Still improving with no relapses since starting. Can't run but can paint all day.
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Re: Has ANYONE reversed their MS BESIDES Dr Wahls?

Postby hiits100rav » Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:47 am

Hi dc10, Snowgirl, msmything, elliotB and others

I have a very close relative who was diagnosed with MS in 2007 and has been having continuous decline since then (SPMS now). To be frank, there is very less awareness on MS and auto-immune in the Indian subcontinent where we belong to and were unaware about (at least for first 5 years!) how badly the disease progresses and neither our doctor advised us very well on. Over past few years we started learning more and more about the stories of people who have been doing great (Dr. Wahls, Dr Jelinek and others) even with MS and recently (past 7 months or so) have introduced a lot of green and bright foods in our diet, yet we still do not see any improvement. Prior to that we have been completely reliant on medication

We have read the Wahls Protocol - the book is really inspiring and consolidates the diet well, however we are yet to take a leap of faith completely on the diet as we haven't seen any significant improvement since actively starting lot of diet changes for past couple of months are still not able.

We recently tried 30 day 'Ayurveda' treatment (and stopped allopathic medication) based on word of mouth, however yet to see any improvement there as well as we continue on the course.

I understand this post has been quite old but it would really be very helpful if you could share your past few years experience.

Thanks much.
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Re: Has ANYONE reversed their MS BESIDES Dr Wahls?

Postby jimmylegs » Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:03 am

there are many different routes to the issues shared by typical ms patients. one dietary approach may benefit a group but blanket approaches for all are not suitable when each person exists in a different food environment, has their own personal routine within that environment, and a different genetic makeup as well.

can you tell us about the background/history of your close relative diagnosed in 2007? typical daily foods, fluids, supplements, meds? prior to diagnosis, since diagnosis, and during the past couple of months using wahls recommendations?
odd sx? no dx? check w/ dietitian
DRI=MINIMUM eg bit.ly/1vgQclQ
99% don't meet these. meds/lifestyle can affect levels
status can be low in ms & other cond'ns
'but my results are normal'. typical panels don't test all
deficits occur in 'normal' range
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Re: Has ANYONE reversed their MS BESIDES Dr Wahls?

Postby ElliotB » Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:38 pm

"however we are yet to take a leap of faith"

You are correct, a leap of faith is required as a high good fat diet is contrary to every 'modern' concept about diet/nutrition. It was an extremely difficult decision from me as I had avoided fats as recommended by experts all my adult life.

I am very proactive with every aspect of my life with regards to my health in dealing with my MS and can tell you that I have been following a high good fat diet (ONLY fatty grass fed meats and wild caught seafood, minimal veggies except for what I grow myself, virtually no carbs) and am totally gluten free - I have been doing this for just over 3 years (I also do a tremendous amount of exercise, take a lot of supplements including a high but not mega dose of D3 and eat home made fermented foods for their probiotic content). And I do take Copaxone 20mg daily.

I recently had a MRI which was basically 'normal' and showed no sign of any disease activity or progression, period. BUT in reality MRIs are of limited usefulness - I can tell you that I feel fantastic and am in excellent health and have not been sick (aside from MS) since I began the high good fat diet. My blood work confirms I am in good health. Originally after my diagnosis about 4 years ago I went on the Swank diet (which frankly did not make sense to me at the time but I went on it anyway) and within 6 months had a relapse and was fortunate to find out about the benefits of a high good fat diet and quickly switched.

I wish to stress that any high fat diet should ONLY include grass fed meats and wild caught seafood - organic is NOT acceptable and farm raised fish/seafood should not be consumed). DO NOT consume regular meat. Store bought vegetables, whether conventional or organic, are loaded with pesticides as are grains like rice, buckwheat, etc. and should also be avoided IMHO.
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Re: Has ANYONE reversed their MS BESIDES Dr Wahls?

Postby kaiello » Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:19 pm

YES! I was diagnosed Election Day, Tuesday, November 5, 1996. As this was 4 years before Dr. Wahl's diagnosis, I had no access to Dr. Wahl's protocol, but researched and began following a grain free regimen, plus the Dr. Roy Swank low saturated fat MS diet. My MS had been confirmed by my internist, the radiologist at the hospital where I received my MRI and the leading ophthalmologist in my city. 5 months later I underwent more extensive testing by a neurologist specializing in autoimmune disease. He confirmed the diagnosis but said that the disease was not active. I had been following the dietary regimen at that point for 5 months. My visual symptoms, loss of control on my left side resulting in an inability to walk at times, coupled with falls, slowly lessened and eventually disappeared. Following an auto accident in 2000 when we moved south, my surgeon noticed something on my spine and sent me to the head of Neurology at the research hospital in our new city. The neurologist confirmed that I had had MS but that the lesions were old and no longer active. In his words, the disease had reversed itself. I absolutely believe that dietary changes can reverse, or at the very least slow the progress of MS and lessen the symptoms.
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Re: Has ANYONE reversed their MS BESIDES Dr Wahls?

Postby vesta » Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:08 am

YES! Under treatment by kinesiologist/naturopath Dr Jimmy Scott in San Francisco 1984. Detoxification, "Allergy" or food sensitivity testing to determine ideal diet/supplements FOR ME., "energy" work (Kinesiology). However, when I went off my diet and stopped treatment upon moving to France, I relapsed. Diet matters.

The various diets (Wahls, Swank, etc) are theoretical and not geared to the individual.

Consider the following :
(I admit, it’s easiet for me to copy out what I’ve already written. Previously published on my site http://www.mscureenigmas.net/)

MS Food Aug 19 2016

Upon re-reading Mega-Nutrients For Your Nerves by H.L. Newbold, M.D. (1975) I realize I have failed to insist on the role of food allergies in MS pathology.  Not only must a healing diet provide optimal nutrients, it must avoid foods which “poison” through “allergy”…

I bought Dr. Newbold’s book February 28, 1983 (now out of print,  available only second hand) while trying to work out a supplement program on my own.  Dr. Newbold practiced medical nutrition in Manhattan with particular interest in emotional disorders.  He recommended work with an MD who should do a full allergy, vitamin (especially blood serum Vit B12 and folic acid), mineral (hair sample), chemical and endocrinological work-up. He himself had hypoglycemia which had led to his interest and eventual expertise in medical nutrition.

Right. There was only one M.D. at my San Francisco HMO interested in vitamins and medical nutrition, he was treated like a leper by his colleagues, and his advice was very conservative, even rudimentary. While Dr. Newbold’s advice was in keeping with what I would eventually do (eliminate sugar, milk, glutens, refined foods, eat high protein diet with raw vegetables, full spectrum light etc) I never tried the mega-dose of vitamins he recommended. I lacked the confidence to do that on my own. Also, I couldn’t obtain the blood tests. It would take another year to find the equivalent therapy, though with a Phd nutritionist/kinesiologist Dr. Jimmy Scott.

Dr. Scott used the unorthodox kinesiology muscle test to determine my allergies, his definition of allergy being that an allergen perturbs the body’s energy flow which can be observed by a weakened test muscle.  Dr. Newbold used the somewhat clumsy fasting, mono food method. After fasting 5 days to remove all foods in the body, one re-introduces a substance one at a time to see if there is a reaction.  Dr. Arthur Coca introduced pulse testing having observed that the pulse rate increases after eating a food to which one is allergic. (See Jimmy Scott’s book page xiii Cure Your Own Allergies in Minutes 1988. Also check out the pulse test self help site. If the pulse rate increases, doesn’t that right there imply a stress response?). My Paris Doctor considers Kinesiology muscle testing too subjective and prefers blood tests (250 food items tested).  This is probably Cytotoxic testing in which reactions in the white blood cells are observed. Dr. Scott feels these are only 75% valid and only if a food item has been recently eaten. Dr. Newbold finds traditioinal skin allergy tests are only 20% effective.  So it’s not easy finding a therapist who can work up a valid personalized food allergy profile.

It’s generally safe to assume an allergy to glutens (wheat).  Other grains need to be checked out. I can eat buckwheat, rice, corn and barley. 

Dr. Newbold observed the reaction of a woman fed a corn solution in a film produced by Dr. Theron Randolph. She instantly displayed psychotic behavior which lasted 4 days.  (see pg 44). She obviously was allergic to corn.

What does a psychotic reaction to a food have to do with MS?  It’s the biochemical impact on the brain and central nervous system which implicates both pathologies, though in different ways.

I suggest these various methods to individualize treatment. Also, I believe one needs to be detoxified before one can enjoy the full benefit of nutrition/supplements. Finally, if one has a skeletal obstruction to proper blood and cerebral spinal fluid flow, diet change alone won’t correct the problem.

MY FIVE STEPS TO MULTIPLE SCLEROSIS HEALTH

1. DETOXIFY  
“Dr. Hyman explains his 10 day detox diet. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgcGlei_JLo
want2bike (From Thisisms.com) 
I had the advice/assistance of a kinesiologist/nutritionist and won’t myself suggest a detox protocol. Dr. Hyman maintains that a simple diet change over 10 days will do the trick (or at least be a beginning) which is something anyone can try.  So why not?  
See also Detoxification and Supplements 

2. OPTIMAL NUTRITION AND SUPPLEMENTS  http://www.mshope.com.

3. ENHANCE BLOOD/CEREBROSPINAL FLUID CIRCULATION - CCSVI
AND STIMULATE ANS Autonomic Nervous System

(See Acupuncture (which includes Tens Self Acupressure) 
Simple blood/cerebrospinal fluid circulation thérapies such as massage,  acupuncture, neuro-muscular electrical stimulation, osteopathy, or swimming may suffice. I do daily Tens self acupressure treatments to stay afloat and try to get an acupuncture or osteopathic treatment once a month. A serious venous blockage may require ANGIOPLASTY. Prior to taking that decision, one might consult a specialist in skeletal disorders (e.g. Chiropractors or Osteopaths) to be certain a bone, muscle, tendon etc is not obstructing the vein. Best diagnostic tool – FONAR Upright Cine (as in cinema) MRI)

Consider DR. Arata’S TRANSVASCULAR AUTONOMIC MODULATION (CCSVI plus massage) or Dr. Owiesy’s injection of a mixture of dexamethasone/lidocaine/thiamine in the area around the Internal Jugular Vein. Outcomes have been impressive, risks and expense minimal. (Probably not yet available.)
 
4. SUNLIGHT OR UV RAYS on the skin at least 15 minutes daily to release Nitric Oxide essential to vascular health and blood circulation.

5.  EXERCISE BUILD UP PROGRESSIVELY (Consulting a Physical Therapist can help.) Pilates technique favors movement.

 
Previously published on my site http://www.mscureenigmas.net/

Best regards, Vesta


 
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