BG 12

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BG 12

Postby Lars » Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:28 pm

Hey Dig, long time. What is your latest take on BG12? Is this really fumeric acid? All my Neuros seem to think its the Holy Grail but if we can just do it ourselves why would anyone sign on for a high dollar Med? Rituxan coming up hard and fast!
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Re: BG 12

Postby NHE » Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:48 pm

Hi Lars,
BG-12 and fumaric acid are two different, but related, molecules. BG-12 is dimethyl fumarate. It has the following structure...

    Image

It reacts with thiol groups, -SH, such as those found in glutathione and cysteine residues oxidizing them. Cells sense this oxidative stress and activate the transcription of cell protective genes for antioxidant enzymes.

In contrast, fumaric acid is a dicarboxylic acid where the -CH3 groups are replaced with H.

    Image

It doesn't have the same chemical reactivity with thiols and won't activate the cell protectant genes that dimethyl fumarate activates.

One thing to know is that there are many molecules in nature that have similar functional groups as dimethyl fumarate which gives them similar reactivity with thiols. Here's a free review paper which discusses them.



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Re: BG 12

Postby Lars » Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:38 am

NHE,
Wow, impressive! I guess my only question as a layman now is..........are they close enough for fumeric acid to be of benefit? I know this is a loaded question but what the hell.
Thanks,
L
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Re: BG 12

Postby CureOrBust » Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:39 pm

NHE wrote:Hi Lars,
BG-12 and fumaric acid are two different, but related, molecules. BG-12 is dimethyl fumarate. It has the following structure...

    Image


They are probably trying to keep it a little bit of a secret/confusion, but on the Australian patent application for BG12, they say its "One of dimethyl fumarate or monomethyl fumarate"
http://www.ipaustralia.com.au/applicant/biogen-idec-ma-inc/patents/AU2010242064/
.... 5. The method of any one of claims 1-4, wherein the at least one compound is chosen from dimethyl fumarate and monomethyl fumarate. 6. The method of any one of claims 1-4, wherein the only active agent administered to the subject is dimethyl fumarate (DMF). 7. The method of any one of claims 1-4, wherein the only active agent administered to the subject is monomethyl fumarate (MMF). 8. The method of any one of claims 1-4, wherein the only active agents administered to the subject are DMF and MMF....

monomethyl fumarate
Image
(I have no idea what difference the above structural change makes, I just posted it to look intelligent...)
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Re: BG 12

Postby Lars » Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:18 am

Cure,
I think it worked. Told my girlfriend you were a genius! Seriously, that is an interesting twist in this little mystery. I think I'm on my way to the store to try some! Probably should have posted this on the BG12 page. It's been a while. Forgot my manners.
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Re: BG 12

Postby Markd » Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:04 pm

Hey Lars You stated "I think I'm on my way to the store to try some!" Let us know where you find it and how it worked out.
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Re: BG 12

Postby NHE » Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:55 pm

Lars wrote:I think it worked. Told my girlfriend you were a genius! Seriously, that is an interesting twist in this little mystery. I think I'm on my way to the store to try some! Probably should have posted this on the BG12 page. It's been a while. Forgot my manners.


I think it's unlikely that you will find monomethyl fumarate at a supplement store. A search at vitacost.com and iherb.com only yielded supplements containing fumarate. This is not the ester form of the molecule, but the conjugate base of fumaric acid. Salts of carboxylic acids, such as fumarate, are given a similar nomenclature as the esters, i.e., both names will end with the -ate. This similarity in the name can be confusing.

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Re: BG 12

Postby CureOrBust » Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:19 am

NHE wrote:I think it's unlikely that you will find monomethyl fumarate at a supplement store.
I know there are/were people getting "Fumeric acid" compounded from their chemist, anyone know what these people were getting?
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Re: BG 12

Postby Lars » Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:06 am

http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/pro ... &region=US

This is an interesting site. They sell everything for research purposes. Not sure the average Joe could buy it. They list the chemical structure differently for Diamethyl, Monoethyl and Fumeric acid. More confused than ever!
All three are available for purchase!
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