This Is MS Multiple Sclerosis Community: Knowledge & Support

For what its worth, I'm almost 60, overweight and wouldn't have a clue as to what the inside of a gym looks like.
Many nights I wake up in the middle of the night and jump out of bed to get my foot on a cold floor to help relieve the sudden onset muscle spasm.
In fact, for about a decade after my onset MS attack when I was 20, these rip-roaring spasms were the only symptom I had (except that I didn't know I had MS because the MRI hadn't been invented yet). While they no longer rip and roar, they are a major pain and the do know how to mess up a good night's sleep.
So I would suggest that you go back to the gym as much as you want. If the problem doesn't get any worse, then you know there is no real connection.
Good luck.

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Carpe Diem

i'm going with magnesium loss through sweating, for this one, flora. low normal potassium can be linked to low serum magnesium status, by the way.

if you get a serum magnesium test the result should be AT LEAST 0.90mmol/L. ('normal' range is 0.70-1.10 and that's too broad by literally half)

healthy sources of magnesium include sunflower seeds, zinc, spinach, chard, and chinook salmon, for a few examples

magnesium glycinate is a good, soluble, more absorbable supplement form. magnesium oxide has a high percentage elemental magnesium, but it's insoluble and therefore it's more difficult to absorb, and because of that it has a very laxative effect.

if sweat loss does not make sense for you oreo, there's also dietary insufficiency, stress, caffeine, alcohol, that kind of thing which can cause lower magnesium levels.

also, ms patients do tend to be lower in magnesium. hth!

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my approach: no meds so far - just balanced whole foods (partial 'paleo', much less outright elimination), science, supplements, & bloodwork
my regimen - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com

Hi Flora,
I know that this sounds like a really basic question, but do you stretch after exercising? Nine or ten years ago when I was in grad school, I used to ride my bicycle home after studying in the library all night and then go straight to bed. I would get really painful spasms in my quads that would wake me up in agony. I found that some stretching after I got home would prevent the spasms.

NHE

quick question nhe, did you also have raynaud's back then? guess where i'm going with this hehe

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my approach: no meds so far - just balanced whole foods (partial 'paleo', much less outright elimination), science, supplements, & bloodwork
my regimen - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com

No.

took a bit longer to manifest then i take it?? anyway it was probably a mag issue for you back then too! and what are you doing up at this hour.

_________________
my approach: no meds so far - just balanced whole foods (partial 'paleo', much less outright elimination), science, supplements, & bloodwork
my regimen - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com

I note that exercise reduces my spasms and calms things down a little, I think its because I try so hard that I am physically drained after a work out.

I'm not a muscle physiologist, nor do I play one on TV. However, I've run into numerous sources over the years that idicate that stretching after exercise helps the muscle to get rid of built up lactic acid which could otherwise lead to cramping and stiffness.

NHE

true!

""Magnesium and malic acid are also critical. When malic acid and the other compounds are low, the body often has to shift to the very inefficient (anaerobic) means of generating energy. This contributes to the abnormal buildup of lactic acid that occurs after exercise ... This causes muscle achiness and fatigue"

and if we're talking about more than just sore muscles, eg "To be clear, this is not a matter of sore muscles; it's something else altogether.", then magnesium status could be even more highly suspect.

magnesium is useful in extreme cases of spasm such as tetanus:

Magnesium as first line therapy in the management of tetanus: a prospective study of 40 patients. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12133096
"Spasms were controlled in 38 of the 40 patients within a serum Mg(2+) range of 2-4 mmol/l with only two patients needing additional neuromuscular blocking drugs. Seventeen of 24 patients (< 60 years) and six of 16 patients (> or = 60 years) did not require ventilatory support."

and, one more study:

Painful muscle spasm reversed by magnesium sulphate. A case report. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4035497
"A 25-year-old paraplegic man who had sustained a T3/T4 vertebral compression fracture 3 years previously presented with severe, painful spasm of the left hamstring muscle group of 2 hours' duration. This spasm produced extreme knee flexion of a degree which held the left foot posterior to the right buttock. An intravenous injection of 2 g magnesium sulphate produced immediate relief."

hth flora feel better soon!

_________________
my approach: no meds so far - just balanced whole foods (partial 'paleo', much less outright elimination), science, supplements, & bloodwork
my regimen - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com

glad you like magnesium-rich foods - careful not to combine with calcium rich foods at the same time, since those compete with each other for absorption.

magnesium is easily lost in a variety of ways, including the sweating you specified, and pretty much any stress, etc.

quick question: can you clarify re 'chelated magnesium oxide'? eg what brand you take? magnesium oxide is generally one of the least soluble, least absorbable forms - i'm curious about your chelated product. especially the 1-2 grams you mention?? that's pretty surprising.

_________________
my approach: no meds so far - just balanced whole foods (partial 'paleo', much less outright elimination), science, supplements, & bloodwork
my regimen - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com

okay to clarify re sweating *and pretty much any stress*... the point was, sweating not the only way mag is lost.. for instance what i mentioned about combinations...

in your supplement both the calcium and the d3 will either compete with the magnesium for absorption, or use it up.

it's very important to take in some daily magnesium on its own, away from competitors.

when i caused my worst magnesium problems personally, i was taking magnesium every day but it was at the same time as calcium and d3.

as soon as i started taking some daily magnesium separate from those two, my quite serious problems resolved.

fyi, hth

_________________
my approach: no meds so far - just balanced whole foods (partial 'paleo', much less outright elimination), science, supplements, & bloodwork
my regimen - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com

check this out:
The relationship between serum trace element levels and clinical parameters in patients with fibromyalgia
http://www.springerlink.com/content/w64158753gu47488/

you could consider taking a magnesium glycinate supplement (the glycinate form is key). start with 100mg before each meal, and try to get lots from diet. dark leafy greens such as spinach chard and kale are relatively high in magnesium. also certain nuts and certain fish - more info here http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... nt&dbid=75

you might also want to consider a zinc supplement. you could try 50mg zinc per day for one month, see what happens, and then drop back to a lower amount.

also, diet FYI
http://www.ctds.info/fibromyalgia-diet.html

the link above provides great recommendations by and large. the increase in magnesium-rich foods is important, same with the reduction of magnesium antagonists. not sure about red meat every day but if it's only a little, that's good. a full serving once or twice a week is another potential route. the zinc nutrition in red meat is important. also the cutting back on wheat in there means cutting back on gluten which results in higher serum zinc status.

_________________
my approach: no meds so far - just balanced whole foods (partial 'paleo', much less outright elimination), science, supplements, & bloodwork
my regimen - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com