Certain Probiotics Reverse MS In Clinical Lab Study

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David1949
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Re: Certain Probiotics Reverse MS In Clinical Lab Study

Post by David1949 »

Ah boy! Another mouse study! The problem is we are not mice and EAE is not MS.
ElliotB
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Re: Certain Probiotics Reverse MS In Clinical Lab Study

Post by ElliotB »

David1949, you are correct, yet all living beings are connected and have many similarities. And there is a lot of positive evidence about probiotics and their importance to our good health. You may want to check into probiotics a little further before you dismiss them. And one of the best sources of probiotics is through a diet which includes homemade sauerkraut. If you do some research on sauerkraut, you may be pleasantly surprised at what you find out!
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CureOrBust
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Re: Certain Probiotics Reverse MS In Clinical Lab Study

Post by CureOrBust »

I did a quick search for the specific strains used in the above study. I found a reference on ebay (from which I have stolen the image, not wanting to advertise for them) which sells a specific product/brand. In their blurb, they include a contents list that includes 2 of the 3 strains used. (ie L. paracasei DSM 13434 &
L. plantarum DSM 15312)
Image
However, when I went to the manufacturers web site, they did not specific list the DSM no's of the strains within their product.
http://images.vitaminimages.com/cdn/sd/ ... 644-NB.PDF
Maybe someone more local may want to give them a call?

I was also a little suspicious of the fact that this manufacturer only / specifically states "**20 billion active cultures per serving guaranteed at time of manufacture" :-|
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lyndacarol
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Re: Certain Probiotics Reverse MS In Clinical Lab Study

Post by lyndacarol »

Please note: the initial post in this thread ("Certain Probiotics Reverse MS In Clinical Lab Study") by harry1 is dated February 3, 2010.

But probiotics are still/again in the news, possibly offering a strategy to treat MS. The MS Microbiome Consortium, a collaboration of researchers in California, Colorado, and New York, has presented early findings of differences in gut bacteria (people with MS treated with glatiramer acetate, untreated people, and healthy controls). According to the NMSS, research is continuing.
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1eye
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Re: Certain Probiotics Reverse MS In Clinical Lab Study

Post by 1eye »

  • A) Nothing has been shown to "reverse MS" in people.
    B) The mice did NOT have MS. Nobody knows what causes it so you cannot say anyone ever gave it to a mouse -- or reversed it.
    C) What they showed at all was in a species whose intestinal biome was undoubtedly very different from a human one.
That being said, there are probably mammalian mechanisms that are common between mice and humans.

There was a study in PLOS 1 that was much closer to the disease most people in this Forum are concerned with -- MS. In actual humans. Japanese, certainly, but definitely human. And with definite MS. Nothing anywhere to show the MS Japanese get is any different from yours.

See http://www.thisisms.com/forum/general-d ... 26916.html and http://journals.plos.org/plosone/articl ... ne.0137429

The PLOS study identifies 19 strains in humans that are depleted in MS. It also identifies one that is increased in MS. Please before you nuke the entire biome, remember that it is a balance. The balance is off in MS. It could easily be that once the threshold is crossed by normalizing one of the depleted populations, the increased population may normalize as well.

I remember reading about one saliva-oriented strain, but not the rest. Whoever posted the nutritional label, those are my flags that indicate to me in no uncertain terms that the contents are manufactured, unnatural, and Not Real Food. Same with probiotics. If you can get the same strains from Real Food, isn't that better?

If you're interested in the ones that are in saliva, a good way to nuke them might be mouthwash... 8O

Now, please, I don't want to read about any mouse-human fecal transplants, or hanta virus, or any other hare-brained shit (so to speak). OK? :!: :geek: :roll:
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Leonard
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Re: Certain Probiotics Reverse MS In Clinical Lab Study

Post by Leonard »

harry1 wrote:I was reading this on another forum about a clinical lab study by Lund University Sweden showed that when they gave Probiotics or 3 specific strains of Lactobacilli to mice with MS that it stopped it's progression and in many cases reversed their MS Symptoms during the study. They speculate that it has an effect on pro inflammatory Cytokines and also IL-10 which usually tells the T-Cells to attack the nerve tissue in the CNS and Periphery areas of the body according to the researchers. They emphasized that you have to take the 3 specific lactobacilli strains for it to help on MS.

Article for those interested.
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Ad ... ne.0009009
lyndacarol wrote:Please note: the initial post in this thread ("Certain Probiotics Reverse MS In Clinical Lab Study") by harry1 is dated February 3, 2010.

But probiotics are still/again in the news, possibly offering a strategy to treat MS. The MS Microbiome Consortium, a collaboration of researchers in California, Colorado, and New York, has presented early findings of differences in gut bacteria (people with MS treated with glatiramer acetate, untreated people, and healthy controls). According to the NMSS, research is continuing.

Harry, thanks for this. I think, although the study is on mice and the EAE model, the findings of this Swedish study are much more fundamental than we might believe at first sight. And they are potentially very important.

As Lynda says, the microbiome seems central in MS and autoimmunity. Differences in gut bacteria may change epigenetic control on the host cells. If epigenetic regulation of gene expression fails and viral genes are no longer silenced with interaction in the viral repertoire, we see a rearrangement in HERV-related mobile subcellular structures that span the divide between "self" and "foreign". At that point, cells change phenotype. And that is when problems start.
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