progesterone and MS

If it's on your mind and it has to do with multiple sclerosis in any way, post it here.

Re: progesterone and MS

Postby Liberation » Mon Jan 16, 2012 3:09 am

thanks for the posts, ikulo. They are really great. As a male, I am just wondering what I can do with these hormones. Is there any reference level of the sex hormones for a male? What level should we target? What could be the side effects of using a natural progesterone cream for a male?

It would be good to talk to a doctor, but neurologists are really against doing anything other than prescribing the usual drugs, while other doctors just do not want to interfere as it is ms.

I am also just wondering what are the other ways of increaing the neurosteroid level (like allopregnanolone)?
User avatar
Liberation
Family Elder
 
Posts: 336
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 4:00 pm

Advertisement

Re: progesterone and MS

Postby ikulo » Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:34 pm

Hey Lib,

I haven't done enough research on the reference levels. I just got new health insurance so I haven't been able to get to a doc to check levels. I'm hoping to get into a naturopath sometime soon to get my levels checked, naturopaths seem to be more open toward hormones, herbals, etc. Will keep you posted.
User avatar
ikulo
Family Elder
 
Posts: 444
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 3:00 pm
Location: colorado

Re: progesterone and MS

Postby SaraG » Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:10 pm

I have been on the Mirena IUD for 7 years. Before that I lost 2 pregnancies due to extremely low progesterone but had two children with treatment. When I was trying to figure out birth control my gyno suggested Mirena and told me it worked by somehow stimulating the body to make too much progesterone to allow fertilization. I quickly felt better and even though I was later diagnosed with MS (wit many many years of symptoms) I was loathe to have it removed because I really felt it had somehow helped me. Maybe, maybe not and purely anecdotal but I have felt very strongly that having it permanently removed would be a mistake for me. However, I am always hesitant to recommend it to friends because I have read some women have not liked it (possibly women who already make enough Progesterone end up with way too much?) Anyway, just thought I'd throw that out there.
SaraG
Newbie
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:58 pm

Re: progesterone and MS

Postby Shayk » Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:59 pm

Hi again

There's a new open access (free) article on progesterone :smile:

Progesterone Synthesis in the Nervous System: Implications for Myelination and Myelin Repair

If you're at all interested in progesterone I think it's well worth the read; there is a small section on MS and progesterone in the article.

And guys, you may be interested in this abstract: Progesterone: The Forgotten Hormone in Men?
Other progesterone effects in men include those on the central nervous system (CNS) (mainly mediated by 5alpha-reduced progesterone metabolites as so-called neurosteroids)


And in this commentary by Dr. John R Lee (now deceased) Hormone Balance in Males

And they wonder why people with MS lose the ability to remyelinate? Could it be in part due to declining hormone levels (including progesterone?) It's my understanding that in women at least progesterone levels start to decrease before estrogen levels start dropping.

Take care

Sharon
User avatar
Shayk
Family Elder
 
Posts: 780
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2004 4:00 pm

Re: progesterone and MS

Postby Thekla » Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:57 pm

I started using a prescription progesterone creme and 8mg estriol again last month. I have heard it takes several months to really see benefits. When are others taking it? Morning or evening? Should I do them together?
User avatar
Thekla
Family Elder
 
Posts: 147
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2010 3:00 pm
Location: Germany

Re: progesterone and MS

Postby Shayk » Thu Jun 26, 2014 5:40 pm

Great question Thekla

I wouldn’t take them together. I try to take my estriol and progesterone at least 4 hours apart. I use progesterone cream in the morning and late evening. My 8 mg estriol is compounded with 100 mg. progesterone which I take late afternoon but obviously “together”. LOL

The reason I try to space the timing is based primarily on this abstract:
Progesterone reverses 17beta-estradiol mediated neuroprotection and BDNF induction in cultured hippocampal neurons
Our results indicate that E2 neuroprotective effects are mediated through the BDNF pathway and that, under certain conditions, P4 antagonizes the protective effect of estrogen.

Clearly, that research isn't about estriol per se and hasn’t even reached mice yet so it’s very early but it gave me a heads up to try and separate the time when I took them. I also checked out (years ago) the half-life of estriol in serum and it was very short—as I recall about 2 hours. It’s interesting because in the latest clinical trial of estriol the 8 mg will be taken in 4 2mg doses throughout the day.
Estriol Treatment in MS: Effect on Cognition

I also want to emphasize that MPA which is used in HRT in the US has some risks: Use of MPA for hormone therapy in post menopausal women: Is it safe?
Research into mechanisms by which MPA might cause adverse effects in these areas, combined with the available clinical evidence, suggests a small increase in relative risk for breast cancer and stroke, and a decline in cognitive function, in older women using MPA with an estrogen for postmenopausal HT.

And, there’s this: Differential effects of synthetic progestagens on neuron survival and estrogen neuroprotection in cultured neurons.
We found that medroxyprogesterone acetate decreased both ERα and ERβ expression and blocked E2-mediated neuroprotection and BDNF expression.

All to say I’d definitely stick with bioidentical progesterone. For me, it did take several months to see the benefits of progesterone. All the best to you.

Sharon
User avatar
Shayk
Family Elder
 
Posts: 780
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2004 4:00 pm

Re: progesterone and MS

Postby Thekla » Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:20 am

Do you take a break from the progesterone during the month? I have read to take a week off to simulate natural fluctuations. I have also read that it can accumulate in fatty tissues affecting results.

What kind of benefits are you getting? I've been taking estriol in the am and progesterone before bed. Thanks ;-)
User avatar
Thekla
Family Elder
 
Posts: 147
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2010 3:00 pm
Location: Germany

Re: progesterone and MS

Postby Shayk » Fri Jun 27, 2014 8:46 am

Hi Thekla

I don't take a break from progesterone during the month....I was diagnosed post menopause (at 57) so I didn't concern myself with natural fluctuations--but I have also read about taking a week off and have always assumed that applies to people pre menopause. Maybe I should do some more reading about that...

I also haven't read that it can accumulate in fatty tissues affecting results...more reading for me I guess. My reading about progesterone has really centered on its neuroprotective properties since it's considered a "neurosteriod"--made in the brain, by the brain, for the brain...I had none when I had my hormone levels tested.

I would say the primary benefit I think I've gotten from progesterone is an improved gait. I was a "drunk" MSer at diagnosis and slowly but surely after I started progesterone cream my gait improved and has stayed "steady". I essentially went from 4 kph (2.5 mph) max in 45 minutes hanging on for dear life on a treadmill to 4.8 kph (3.0 mph) max in 10 seconds not holding on. I've never had an EDSS but neuro guesstimates 0-1. Eleven years after diagnosis I still have heat (humidity) sensitivity and fatigue.

Hope that helps....do let us know how you do. Have a great week end.

Sharon
User avatar
Shayk
Family Elder
 
Posts: 780
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2004 4:00 pm

Re: progesterone and MS

Postby misslux » Sat Jul 05, 2014 7:00 am

Interesting thread. I know for me I feel best and can function a lot better the first week of my cycle where all my hormone levels are even. It is the difference between being able to walk 100 metres without stopping versus barely 15-20 metres with much difficulty. Less fatigue, better mobility, less spasticity and less neuropathy/paraesthesia.

I have approached my GP, neuro and physiatrist about hormone therapy before but I'm going to get my SO to film me at different points of my cycle and ask again. It really is a dramatic difference.
misslux
Family Member
 
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:26 pm
Location: Canada, eh!

Re: progesterone and MS

Postby PointsNorth » Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:56 pm

Will have some by next week hopefully. I believe the delivery will be sublingual. Just spoke to the compounding pharmacist and he is going to make me up lozenges. PN

Glia. 2015 Jan;63(1):104-17. doi: 10.1002/glia.22736. Epub 2014 Aug 4.
Progesterone and nestorone promote myelin regeneration in chronic demyelinating lesions of corpus callosum and cerebral cortex.
El-Etr M1, Rame M, Boucher C, Ghoumari AM, Kumar N, Liere P, Pianos A, Schumacher M, Sitruk-Ware R.
Author information

Abstract
Multiple Sclerosis affects mainly women and consists in intermittent or chronic damages to the myelin sheaths, focal inflammation, and axonal degeneration. Current therapies are limited to immunomodulators and antiinflammatory drugs, but there is no efficient treatment for stimulating the endogenous capacity of myelin repair. Progesterone and synthetic progestins have been shown in animal models of demyelination to attenuate myelin loss, reduce clinical symptoms severity, modulate inflammatory responses and partially reverse the age-dependent decline in remyelination. Moreover, progesteronehas been demonstrated to promote myelin formation in organotypic cultures of cerebellar slices. In the present study, we show that progesterone and the synthetic 19-nor-progesterone derivative Nestorone® promote the repair of severe chronic demyelinating lesions induced by feeding cuprizone to female mice for up to 12 weeks. Progesterone and Nestorone increase the density of NG2(+) oligodendrocyte progenitor cells and CA II(+) mature oligodendrocytes and enhance the formation of myelin basic protein (MBP)- and proteolipid protein (PLP)-immunoreactive myelin. However, while demyelination in response to cuprizone was less marked in corpus callosum than in cerebral cortex, remyelination appeared earlier in the former. The remyelinating effect of progesterone was progesterone receptor (PR)-dependent, as it was absent in PR-knockout mice. Progesterone and Nestorone also decreased (but did not suppress) neuroinflammatory responses, specifically astrocyte and microglial cell activation. Therefore, some progestogens are promising therapeutic candidates for promoting the regeneration of myelin. GLIA 2015;63:104-117.

© 2014 Wiley Periodicals, Inc.

KEYWORDS:
cuprizone; oligodendrocytes; progesterone receptor; progestogens; remyelination

PMID: 25092805
Albany 2010. Brooklyn 2011
Hayes inspired Calcitriol+D3 2013-2014
Coimbra Protocol 2014-15
DrG B12 Transdermal Spray 2014-15
Progesterone 2015
My Current Regimen http://www.thisisms.com/forum/regimens-f22/topic25634.html
PointsNorth
Family Elder
 
Posts: 561
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2006 3:00 pm
Location: LeftCoast Canada

Re: progesterone and MS

Postby PointsNorth » Sun Dec 28, 2014 12:07 am

I've been on progesterone for the last couple days. 200mg sublingual tabs created by a compounding pharmacy. Does anyone know how long one experiences positive effects?

I will report back on my personal experience.

PN
Albany 2010. Brooklyn 2011
Hayes inspired Calcitriol+D3 2013-2014
Coimbra Protocol 2014-15
DrG B12 Transdermal Spray 2014-15
Progesterone 2015
My Current Regimen http://www.thisisms.com/forum/regimens-f22/topic25634.html
PointsNorth
Family Elder
 
Posts: 561
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2006 3:00 pm
Location: LeftCoast Canada

Re: progesterone and MS

Postby Shayk » Sun Dec 28, 2014 4:48 pm

Hi PN

I can report that I am still taking progesterone (going on 10+ years I think) and am still doing well re: MS. Guesstimate that EDSS still less than 1 (it's never been formally administered). I hope others report in.

Given the Vitamin D you're doing, you may be interested in this article (open access):

Progesterone with Vitamin D affords better protection against excitotoxicity in cultured cortical neurons than progesterone alone
Our finding that VDH significantly enhances the neuroprotective efficacy of PROG in combination also suggests that PROG could be given to prevent the initial inflammatory cascade and edema, and then be coupled with VDH to stimulate the neurotrophic and regenerative events that take place later in the reparative process.

I think many people only look at Vit D as impacting the immune system, when in fact it has neuroprotective properties as well. I also take Vit D.

This article is also open access and even though it's focused on spinal cord injury (not MS) I thought you may be interested.
Give progesterone a chance
We rely on previous works showing anti-inflammatory, neuroprotective and promyelinating roles for progesterone after spinal cord injury and in our recent paper, in which we demonstrate that progesterone diminishes lesion, preserves white matter integrity and improves locomotor recovery in a clinically relevant model of spinal cord lesion.

I clearly don't understand most of the "science" in the articles but I get some snippets.

Do keep us posted on your results.

All the best,
Sharon
User avatar
Shayk
Family Elder
 
Posts: 780
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2004 4:00 pm

Re: progesterone and MS

Postby PointsNorth » Mon Dec 29, 2014 12:01 am

Shayk wrote:Hi PN

I can report that I am still taking progesterone (going on 10+ years I think) and am still doing well re: MS. Guesstimate that EDSS still less than 1 (it's never been formally administered). I hope others report in.

Given the Vitamin D you're doing, you may be interested in this article (open access):

Progesterone with Vitamin D affords better protection against excitotoxicity in cultured cortical neurons than progesterone alone
Our finding that VDH significantly enhances the neuroprotective efficacy of PROG in combination also suggests that PROG could be given to prevent the initial inflammatory cascade and edema, and then be coupled with VDH to stimulate the neurotrophic and regenerative events that take place later in the reparative process.

I think many people only look at Vit D as impacting the immune system, when in fact it has neuroprotective properties as well. I also take Vit D


I'm taking 200mg PROG and 90Kiu VitD. I don't know how that correlates with the amounts in the attached above file. Based on what I've been reading I suspect that it will take months before I notice any results. I am trying to follow Dr. Coimbra's protocol; high dose D, B12, B2, Omega3 in conjunction with PROG.

Thanks Much for the great links Sharon :smile:
Y
Albany 2010. Brooklyn 2011
Hayes inspired Calcitriol+D3 2013-2014
Coimbra Protocol 2014-15
DrG B12 Transdermal Spray 2014-15
Progesterone 2015
My Current Regimen http://www.thisisms.com/forum/regimens-f22/topic25634.html
PointsNorth
Family Elder
 
Posts: 561
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2006 3:00 pm
Location: LeftCoast Canada

Re: progesterone and MS

Postby jimmylegs » Mon Dec 29, 2014 2:13 pm

hey remind me if you are also tracking se mg and se zn, pn? and se cu? i know i must have asked you before but wouldn't mind hearing about the latest state of affairs ;)

The role of zinc in reproduction
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF02784623
"These different effects of zinc can be explained by its multiple action on the metabolism of androgen hormones, estrogen and progesterone, together with the prostaglandins. Nuclear receptors for steroids* are all zinc finger proteins."
*eg vit d3

Zinc induced changes in the progesterone binding properties of the human endometrium
http://www.eje-online.org/content/94/1/99.short
"The binding of progesterone to plasma and endometrial cytosol is markedly influenced by Zn++, the degree and magnitude of this influence being dependent on the concentration of the metal ion."

Zinc and reproduction
J Apgar - Annual review of nutrition, 1985 - annualreviews.org
"... Serum progesterone and pro lactin were lower in -Zn than + Zn ewes prior to parturition"

Zinc deficiency and supplementation in ovariectomized rats: their effect on serum estrogen and progesterone levels...
http://europepmc.org/abstract/MED/19339224
"Group 1: Control, Group 2: Ovariectomized (OVX) control. Group 3: OVX-Zinc-supplemented. Group 4: OVX-Zinc-deficient.
Progesterone levels were higher in group 1 [control] than in groups 2, 3 and 4 and the same parameter in group 3 [OVX-Zn+] was higher than those in groups 2 [control] and 4 [ovx-zn-]"

conflicting:
Zinc and reproduction
J Apgar - Annual review of nutrition, 1985 - annualreviews.org
"... that the +Zn rat is. Serum progesterone concentrations were higher in -Zn and +ZnRI than in + Zn rats on day 18 (11), and on day 23 were still higher in -Zn rats
than in the controls (42)"
jimmylegs
Volunteer Moderator
 
Posts: 9407
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:00 pm

Re: progesterone and MS

Postby PointsNorth » Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:03 pm

Hi JL,

The link to my regimen is in my signature. I think vitD is likely turning "on" genetic mutations. I am homozygous for many mutations including NOS, VDR, MTHFR etc.

Fyi I'm only taking zinc twice weekly. It stopped working for me as I moved to SPMS.

PN
Albany 2010. Brooklyn 2011
Hayes inspired Calcitriol+D3 2013-2014
Coimbra Protocol 2014-15
DrG B12 Transdermal Spray 2014-15
Progesterone 2015
My Current Regimen http://www.thisisms.com/forum/regimens-f22/topic25634.html
PointsNorth
Family Elder
 
Posts: 561
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2006 3:00 pm
Location: LeftCoast Canada

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

 


  • Related topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users


Contact us | Terms of Service