A new concept and treatment options for MS

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Re: A new concept and treatment options for MS

Postby Kronk » Mon Jun 09, 2014 9:07 pm

Interesting, especially considering many of the treatment protocols he advises are supplements commonly taken by MS sufferers to help. But that is a concern for me... did he develop the science and recommend supplements, or did he look at the popular supplements and manufacture the science to support. I do like that he states he is a PhD and not an MD and therefore says his theory should not be taken as medical advice. Maybe its because he looks like a tele-evangelist that makes me not trust him...

http://www.prohealth.com/library/showar ... ibid=17947

I am currently taken about half of the supplements on his list.
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Re: A new concept and treatment options for MS

Postby Leonard » Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:45 am

thank you for the link.

as regards supplements, I am less convinced.
Terry Wahls writes this: "I attribute more rapid improvements to food as opposed to supplements.” and “These days I am a changed person. I talk about food, micronutrients, disease and health all the time now. I tell everyone, my family and my patients that the presence or lack of micronutrients is one of the most important drivers of either returning us to health or driving further progression of chronic disease."

and perhaps this may help to convince you: http://www.mold-survivor.com/cfs2.html
see points 7 and 9, MS patients will recognise the connection with unsaturated fats and the ratio men/women.

in reality, CFS but also MS will be generated by more complex mechanisms than only the increased nitric oxide / peroxinitrite but the majority of symptoms can be explained by these mechanisms.
I tend to see the intake of supplements a bit in the same way: the benefits of healthy food for our body will be generated by more complex mechanisms than only increased anti-oxidants / flavonoids / phytonutrients etc. These latter concepts are simplifications, the key holes through which we see the problem, that help us understand. They can help explain most of the symptoms we see but what happens in reality in the complexity of our micro-cosmos may be a lot more, and is perhaps not fully understood and can not be fully understood by these, by definition, limited concepts. That is why Terry Wahls can say "I attribute more rapid improvements to food as opposed to supplements.”

remains the big question why many of these immune diseases have not been classified according to their biggest common denominator, that is the mitochondrial / immune dysfunction, all of them seen with the same gender bias?
and why subtle changes such as for instance those caused by vascular insufficiency / CCSVI could give rise to completely different disease patterns?

quote from the article: A common etiology (cause) for CFS with MCS, PTSD and FM has been suggested by others (discussed in refs 4,9). A common causal mechanism for these four conditions is suggested not only by the association among these different conditions (many people are afflicted by more than one) but also by the overlapping symptoms typically found in these four conditions (see refs. 4 and 9 for discussion). These overlaps raise the question about whether MCS, FM and PTSD may be caused by excessive nitric oxide and peroxynitrite. Each of these four conditions is reported to be often preceded by and possibly induced by exposure to a relatively short-term stress that can induce excessive nitric oxide synthesis.

to which list I would now add MS....

In a recent Dutch article, I find this text: Numerous studies in CFS patients point to a reduced activity of the hypothalamus-piutitionary-adrenal (HPA) axis with associated reduced glucocorticoid levels. Where it is often assumed that reduced HPA activity is responsible for many of the symptoms of CFS. Some studies suggest increased nitric oxide values ​​for the reduced activity of the HPA axis, although other studies come to opposite conclusions. (Ref.: 1)

However, low glucocorticoid-values ​​are not capable of inhibiting the nitric oxide synthase (iNOS) in a number of cell structures and to counter the pro-inflammatory cytokines (IL-1β, TNF-alpha and IL-6) (Ref.: 1) by which the raised nitric oxide and peroxynitrite is maintained. These effects can be seen as important elements of the peroxynitrite hypothesis.

It all seems so plausible to me... wow...
Last edited by Leonard on Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:45 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: A new concept and treatment options for MS

Postby lyndacarol » Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:54 am

Kronk wrote:Interesting, especially considering many of the treatment protocols he advises are supplements commonly taken by MS sufferers to help. But that is a concern for me... did he develop the science and recommend supplements, or did he look at the popular supplements and manufacture the science to support. I do like that he states he is a PhD and not an MD and therefore says his theory should not be taken as medical advice. Maybe its because he looks like a tele-evangelist that makes me not trust him...

http://www.prohealth.com/library/showar ... ibid=17947

I am currently taken about half of the supplements on his list.

I, too, thank you for this link. Like you, I have taken many of the supplements for YEARS.

I had not heard of the nasal spray form of hydroxocobalamin:

Hydroxocobalamin form of B12. B12 is a potent nitric oxide scavenger, but it is difficult to absorb. Oral absorption of B12 is limited by intrinsic factor. [Independent of intrinsic factor, the absorption rate of B12 is less than 1% of the total amount ingested.] Hydroxocobalamin taken as a nasal spray or injection is more effective.
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Re: A new concept and treatment options for MS

Postby Leonard » Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:14 am

Prof. Martin Pall wrote a book in which he says that he believes that MS is a NO/OHNOO disease, along with 20 or so other "unexplained" diseases. I think he is right. http://www.amazon.com/Explaining-Unexpl ... artin+pall You can read the first pages on the Amazon website including on the link with MS.

His way of thinking is fully in line with and in fact part of the new concept on pg 1, where we can still discuss precisely what mechanism puts the NO / OHNOO cycle in motion and what keeps it going (EBV, ADMA, stress, or a combination of factors; does it become self-propelling at some point?).


As the following article says: It is An Elegant Explanation
•It is integrative: It integrates into a common scheme a wide variety of previously unexplained diseases/illnesses.
•It is comprehensive: It encompasses a wide variety of observations about these diseases including their patterns of case initiation, their chronic nature, and many of the shared and unique chronic symptoms and signs. It also explains the reported efficacy of over a dozen distinct agents. Each of these aspects has previously challenged explanation, and explaining their combination has been a much larger challenge.
•It is parsimonious: It explains by a relatively simple conceptual framework, many previously unexplained observations.
•It is fundamental: Because it is based primarily at the biochemical level, it explains much of the complexity of these diseases through the impact of a common biochemistry on a variety of organismal functions.
From: http://www.allergyresearchgroup.com/Exp ... sp-35.html

We are in whole new domain here, the domain of biochemistry. This matter needs a paradigm change.
Last edited by Leonard on Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:38 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: A new concept and treatment options for MS

Postby Leonard » Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:52 pm

lyndacarol wrote:
Kronk wrote:Interesting, especially considering many of the treatment protocols he advises are supplements commonly taken by MS sufferers to help. But that is a concern for me... did he develop the science and recommend supplements, or did he look at the popular supplements and manufacture the science to support. I do like that he states he is a PhD and not an MD and therefore says his theory should not be taken as medical advice. Maybe its because he looks like a tele-evangelist that makes me not trust him...

http://www.prohealth.com/library/showar ... ibid=17947

I am currently taken about half of the supplements on his list.

I, too, thank you for this link. Like you, I have taken many of the supplements for YEARS.

I had not heard of the nasal spray form of hydroxocobalamin:

Hydroxocobalamin form of B12. B12 is a potent nitric oxide scavenger, but it is difficult to absorb. Oral absorption of B12 is limited by intrinsic factor. [Independent of intrinsic factor, the absorption rate of B12 is less than 1% of the total amount ingested.] Hydroxocobalamin taken as a nasal spray or injection is more effective.


thank you Kronk and Lynda for the link and for your comments. I would agree with the big overlap between the supplements commonly taken by MS patients and the antioxidant protocol by Martin Pall.

http://www.prohealth.com/library/showar ... ibid=17947
I find the oxidative stress hypothesis and the list of recommended anti-oxidants / peroxynitrate scavengers very interesting. But my eye was caught by the comment on the last page on Vitamin D and its role to inhibit the synthesis of iNOS. wow... do we find here the first good explanation for the role of Vitamin D in MS?
Incidently, vitamin D also seems an important supplement when you start surpressing the EBV with valacyclovir.

I think by and large, MS doesn't have many secrets anymore. Almost everything we know finds an explanation on this thread. The challenge is to find the right forum for expression of the new insights.
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