Female MS the Antithesis of Gout

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Female MS the Antithesis of Gout

Postby search » Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:08 am

In gout high uric acid levels (usually >7) resulting from high iron, molybdenum, sulfur, vit B12 and niacin levels and low copper, magnesium, vit D and folate levels result in the precipitation of painful sodium urate crystals. Gout usually affects males after age 40, after decades of accumulating iron and mobdenum and when declining testosterone levels result in reduced copper half life. Gout can be effectively treated through blood donation until ferritin is between 30 and 55 to eliminate excess iron and molybdenum and by taking 2 mg/d copper, 200 mg/d magnesium as citrate and 800 IU/d vit D and following a diet rich in low fat dairy, vegetables, fruits, eggs and white meats (low in iron).
In contrast, in female MS there is major oxidative damage caused in part by low uric acid levels. Uric acid is a powerful antioxidant that neutralizes ONOO- a very harmful free radical. In young females a high estrogen level increases considerably the half life of copper and cadmium (which are in turn estrogenic) and large amounts of essential minerals can be lost in menstrual fluids, including iron, molydnenum, magnesium, silicon (neuroprotective), zinc, sulfur, etc,
It is important to point out that excess molybdenum displaces copper and silicon in gout, while excess copper displaces molybdenum and silicon in female MS. Moreover, excess copper and cadmium in female MS cause the oxidation of vitamin C, exacerbating the oxidative damage resulting from low uric acid andcadmium displaces zinc from crucial enzymes such as CuZnSOD, which destroys superoxide, a potent free radical.
Although in most respects female MS and gout are opposites, they share critical deficiencies such as vitamin D, folate, Mg and Si. Moreover, both gout and MS are aggravated by blood pH<7.4, which increases the half life of acrolein, a harmful substance produced in the body by lipid peroxidation or acquired through smoking, eating fried foods, etc, so in bot diseases a vegetable and fruit rish diet that keep blood pH between 7.4 and 7.45 is beneficial.
Vitamin D is a misnomer, since it is realy a steroidal hormone with myriad functions, including magnesium resorption in the distal convoluted tubules of the kidneys, modulation of the immune system, cell differentiation (including that of the olygodendrocytes that produce myelin for the neurons), etc, It s interesting that Eskimoes, who have limited exposure to sunlight (required for vit D synthesis) had no MS, perhaps because they had a diet rich in vit D.

Mineral & vitamin Excesses and Deficiencies in Gout and female MS.
Gout: Excess Fe, Mo, niacin and B12 (ocassionally Pb or Sb), Low Cu, Mg, Si, vit D & folate Female MS: Excess Cu & Cd (occasionally Hg, Ni or As), Low Mo, Fe, Mg, Si, Zn, sulfur, vits C, D & B12, folate & niacin.

Conclusion:
Just like gout can be avoided or cured by eliminating excess Mo and Fe and taking the deficient minerals and vitamins in order to keep uric acid levels between 3.4 and 4.4, perhaps female MS can be avoided or cured by eliminating excess Cd and supplementing the diet with Mo (which displaces Cu), Fe, Si, Mg, Zn (which reduces copper absorption), niacin, folate & vits D & B12 in order to keep uric acid levels also between 3.4 and 4.4 and to provide all the minerals and vitamins required for olygodendrocyte function and to prevent oxidative damage.
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Re: Female MS the Antithesis of Gout

Postby blossom » Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:09 pm

search, by uric acid are we talking about say when you buy those strips you can pee on and it changes colors according to how acidic your body is. i know it's probably lacking but better than nothing.

anyway i had read that by taking plain old bakeing soda it would balance your ph level. so i've been doing it and it is improving. i asked a girl where i get a lot of vit.'s etc. about it and i thought it was kinda cute how the relunctrant little yes it does came out. they sell a ton of other pricey stuff for that.

anyway, you are probably aware but here is one of many articles for maybe someone to pick up on. sure is cheap!

Acid Blood Kills -- Alkaline Blood Lives
A Simple Approach Using Baking Soda to Create Healthy Alkaline Blood Levels
by Dusty R. Green, M.Ed., Research Scientist/Author

This article originates from an email inquiry I received concerning the John Kanzius invention. He built an apparatus that sends radio waves into humans with the claim that it may kill cancer cells -- sounds promising.
In the email inquiry, I was asked to comment on the CBS 60 Minutes news story about John Kanzius that ran April 13, 2008.

My Response: My best guess is negative ions (or, maybe a relationship). One form of negative ions is the unseen particles of electricity that come in with thunderstorms and momentarily make us feel like "hippies on drugs" (not that I know anything about that). A simple Internet search on negative ions revealed the information (ions, not hippies). Research shows that negative ions put the body in a temporary alkaline pH state. Most humans are in an acid pH state ... cancer wards are full of 'em.

Theoretically (in my humble opinion, of course), negative ions have a common bond to the positive feelings we get from meditation. Regular/consistent meditation is associated with relaxed states-of-mind -- a stress antagonist. Stress is a major contributor to acid pH in our blood/bodies.


As we buffer our acid-state in consistent manners (meditation, smart eats, baking soda, etc.), a healthier alkaline condition becomes the norm. In addition, nutritional supplements are assimilated more effectively/efficiently in an alkaline body.

Bacteria and Virus Refuse to Live in Alkalinity
This baking soda article and this article are a couple of the best I've found on the pH factor in relationship to many disease-states. Harmful bacteria, virus, herpes (cold sores, etc.) and cancer, thrive in acidity.

Stress, bad eating habits, pesticides, alcohol, pollution, etcetera, turn our bodies into "acid smorgasbords" -- the perfect environment for destroying our bodies in a slow/painful manner. In addition, heartburn, diabetes, heart disease, arthritis, and more are well-known maladies related to acid blood levels. The bottom line ... bacteria and virus will vacate your premises to find a more suitable acid-home as long as you keep your body in a state of alkalinity. By maintaining your drinking/baking soda water at 7.2 to 7.5 pH, you are greatly enhancing your body's ability to prevent any of the above.

Of all Things ... Baking Soda?
Studies in respected medical journals worldwide consistently support the use of a simple dirt-cheap product for reversing acidity -- baking soda. Since there's no money in baking soda for drug companies, its excluded from medical school curriculum and/or associated health training/education.

Odors
As an interesting side-note, most odors we experience are bacteria related. A simple test is to sprinkle a bit of baking soda in your stinky shoes and/or under your smelly arm-pits -- odor diminishes readily. Odor from areas of the body that stay wet and/or dark for awhile are a result of/or caused by bacteria and/or the symbiotic relationship it has with fungus. Fungus (vaginal candidiasis or candida, jock itch, athletes foot, etc.) is odor-producing. Cavities and bacteria (bad breath) are best-buddies, too. Sugar creates an acidic environment in the mouth, thus, a reason why dentists recommend avoiding sugar-related foods.

And, stop using sponges to wash your dishes! Sponges typically stay wet for extended periods which encourage bacteria to multiply exponentially within minutes (Discovery Science channel).

Athletes -- Faster, Harder, Stronger
Lactic acid is a well-known by-product of the exercising muscle. To a large degree, it is responsible for muscular soreness and pre-mature fatigue. Sport drinks do nothing to address the acid issue. In fact, they add to the acid problem due to the large amount of sugar ingested -- sugar drinks are basically acid drinks. The same goes for fruit drinks (the actual sweet part of the fruit is replaced with sugar and/or high fructose corn syrup). It's no wonder regular exercisers have a hard time recovering from injuries -- the injury is surrounded by acid.

Bananas, oranges, potatoes and melons are must-staples of athletes' general diet due to their high potassium content. Yes, they contain sugar, however, it's in a complex carbohydrate form (less inflammatory) that is a longer lasting fuel for the exercising muscle. They alkalize once consumed, however, baking soda water is a stronger and more direct alkalizing agent and may mean the difference between 1st and 2nd in an athletic event.

Bottom-line: As a general guideline, and based on personal research, the following is my recipe for adjusting acid-blood toward the direction of healthier alkaline-blood pH. Below are two separate examples -- do one or the other but not both:
Mix 1/4-1/3 teaspoon of baking soda in a 12-16 ounce glass of tap or bottled water and consume 1 glass in the AM and 1 in the PM and swish it in your mouth (cavity prevention) before swallowing daily. In addition to, and at anytime when you experience heartburn, an extra glass may be necessary.
This following method is easy, convenient, and you're more likely to be consistent with it. If you drink distilled or reverse osmosis water daily as your main source of water (cleanest there is, but acidic), mix 3/4 to 1 teaspoon/gallon. Tap and bottled waters are not as acidic (but very dirty) so you may want to adjust them to a lower 1/2 teaspoon/gallon. You can make adjustments with pH papers below.
Refrain from consuming straight baking soda and/or strong mixtures of the same. It can numb taste-buds and cause the skin from the roof of your mouth to peel (personal experience) not painful, just bothersome. In other words, strong alkalinity can burn you on its end of the scale similar to strong acids such as sulfuric or muriatic that burn on the acid side of the scale.


The above recommendation is for the non-exerciser and/or those who consume the average western diet. Dedicated life extensionists (typically consume lots of minerals), vegetarians, vegans, and/or those who consume more fruits and vegetables than the average person, may want to use a bit less baking soda. Their bodies tend to be a bit more alkaline than the average person. Your barometer can be the consistent use of pH strips/papers. They give you the information you need to make adjustments with the baking soda you put in your water.

Oranges and Lemons
When using pH papers to directly measure fruits and/or vegetables, they typically show-up in the acid range. Oranges and lemons are good examples. Touching the pH paper directly to the opened/peeled fruit reads acid. However, when consumed, they become alkaline as a result of the digestive process from the resulting residue. Fruits and vegetables have a special relationship with our bodies -- they are transformed into an alkaline base as they are burned to ash (as are most fruits and vegetables). Most other food sources do not have this special relationship with our bodies.

Sodium (and Potassium) Concern
1/4 teaspoon of baking soda contains 300 mgs. (milligrams) of sodium -- not much to be concerned about. Most of us typically consume 2,000-3,000 mgs. of salt (sodium chloride) daily. Studies show the relationship between sodium and potassium to be the high blood pressure culprit. Generally, where there is high sodium in populations, there is low potassium. Potassium rich foods generally cost more than sodium rich foods, thus, impoverished areas have a higher incidence of stroke and high blood pressure. The scientific literature shows that if potassium is increased and sodium stays the same, the incidence of blood pressure and strokes drop. A 2:1 ratio of potassium to sodium should be a strong consideration for anyone. Our government allows only 99 mgs. to be put in a daily dose where supplements are concerned. Raw fruits and vegetables are some of the best sources of potassium. This is one of the few areas where food provides more micro-nutrients than nutritional supplements.

Potassium can improve athletic performance in those who are deficient. Those who train 3-4 hours daily can lose up to 700 mgs. from sweat -- about the same amount in one banana. Typically, food manufacturers transform 3.5 ounces of fresh raw peas containing 380 mgs. of potassium and 2 mgs. of sodium into 236 mgs. of sodium. At the same time, they decrease the potassium content to 160 mgs. via the canning process. The same thing applies to other common vegetables. You can buy a salt substitute from your grocery store which is potassium chloride (as opposed to sodium chloride). One of the most popular brands is called "No Salt."

Measuring With pH Paper/Strips
There are 2 easy ways to monitor your pH -- urine and saliva. Whether you test your urine or saliva, the pH value of either varies throughout the day based on many variables (food, liquids, stress, nutritional supplement intake, etc.). Therefore, it is necessary to check it 4-5 times/day so you can establish an average. Personally, I have found the urine method to be the most accurate. If your average is still acidic (or, gets too alkaline) adjust the amount of baking soda accordingly. You can use pH paper/strips or a pH meter. I've always preferred the strips for convenience.

Again, for anyone wanting to use baking soda, reading this article and this baking soda article is paramount for developing a better understanding/appreciation for its many uses.

More information on blood pH levels via minerals.

Note: We do not sell baking soda. It is available at almost any grocery or drug store near you ... or online.

Order: pH Strips/Paper

Give You and Your Loved Ones the Gift of Health!
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Re: Female MS the Antithesis of Gout

Postby jimmylegs » Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:36 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uric_acid# ... _sclerosis

as for balancing ph, calcium and magnesium supplements and healthy dietary sources help with that :)
READ ME key info on nutrient targets - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: Female MS the Antithesis of Gout

Postby blossom » Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:31 pm

jimmylegs, i agree and i do do what i can afford and eat as healthy as i can. in fact especially the last 10 mo. i've been able to pretty much be a dr. whal's dieter because fortunatly a caregiver came into my life that understands all this and prepares the food etc. i have continued to deteriotate but "again spinal issues". unfortunatly, this girl may be moving on. gonna get tough to be strict.

i just thought how it's a stretch to pay for all this stuff when on a fixed income "and some are very low" and everything going sky high. at least for some that can't afford much extra's this a very cheap way to at least try to balance the ph level.

at this point i can get the extra's "to a point" but i know there are some who can't. we have to buy food. we should be supplementing and all but it can cost a small fortune. i would and probably anyone else here would give everything they own to be well again. but, what if all you got is a little fixed income.

i always enjoy and read your post. you know your stuff no doubt there. but, again this cheap it's easy and it works and if it doesn't for some no harm done.
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Re: Female MS the Antithesis of Gout

Postby NHE » Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:38 pm

blossom wrote:search, by uric acid are we talking about say when you buy those strips you can pee on and it changes colors according to how acidic your body is. i know it's probably lacking but better than nothing.


I believe that search was referring to uric acid which is an antioxidant, but one that can cause gout if levels are too high, and not urine pH.

If I remember correctly, Jimmylegs wrote the wikipedia section on MS and uric acid.

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Re: Female MS the Antithesis of Gout

Postby jimmylegs » Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:06 am

blossom, wish i could see your bloodwork! also i would be interested to see if epsom salts baths could also lower systemic acidity. i would think yes, but it would be an interesting study.

nhe, ya it all came out of giving up trying to change the main ms page. someone has a vested interest... :S oh well

so, the uric acid page was next best. it was tagged as in need of the attention of an 'expert' so i did a re-org, and sorted out all the references. i added the 'low uric acid' section, plus the ms subsection, and later the normalizing low uric acid section.

have been enhanced by others since, as has the rest of the page over time.
READ ME key info on nutrient targets - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: Female MS the Antithesis of Gout

Postby search » Sat Mar 24, 2012 6:54 am

Hi and thanks for your input.
I must point out that I'm not a doctor, simply an idiot who loves chemistry and medicine and likes to find the ultimate cause of disease (etiology).
I must also mention that correcting an imbalance of several metals requires a lot of knowledge and care and that, like in any war, it really pays to know your enemies and allies.
To illustrate some problems and caveats:
1) Excess copper reduces the normally high K/Na and Mg/Ca in the cells (in blood there is a high Na/K and Ca/Mg), so using sodium bicarbonate to raise blood pH (which is ideal for many diseases, including gout) in MS is not as good as simply using a vegetable rich in low fat dairy, vegetables and fruits (fructose and vit C helps to eliminate excess Cu). Similarly, taking calcium reduces magnesium absorption, so it is much better to take 200 mg/d magnesium (as citrate) and 800 IU/d vt D /at night), which increases calcium retention anyway and the diet suggested contains plentu of calcium.
2) Most zinc supplements contain inexpensive zinc oxide which is extremely poorly absorbed and most importantly, is contaminated with cadmium, a major culprit in MS. So one must find zinc gluconate. Moreover, most supplements have toxic amounts of zinc. Dor example GNC makes the criminally stupid mistake of selling both 30 mg and 50 mg zinc tablets and labels both as Zn 50 (you have to read in the back to see the actual content of a given flask) and even 30 mg Zn is a toxic dose if taken daily for long periords. In my opinion a 100 lb woman
should take 7 mg/d Zn (as gluconate) and the dose should be increased according to weight. Zn is ideal for MS, since it reduces copper absorption and displaces cadmium. Low zinc causes low serotonin (depression), low protein synthesis, etc,
3) While brewer's yeast is a good source of molybdenum, it may not be ideal for people with MS, isnce it also contains some copper. So 300 muicrograms/d (a ridiculously small amount) of molybdenum supplement is a safer option. Molybdenum displaces excess Cu and increases urate levels.

Here is a deeper look at the problems caused by excess Cu and Cd:
1) Excess Cu destroys folic acid, necessary for nerve function, red cell production, methylation and myriad other functions. Ironically, by depleting folate, excess Cu causes homocysteinemia and homocysteine in turn damages copper proteins, so excess copeer causes an apparent copper deficiency! (copper proteins fail to function properly even though there is excess copper). Damaged copper proteins (lysyl oxidase) results in cardiovascular disease, gray hair, low dopamine (depression), etc,
2) Excess Cu causes lipid peroxidation, which produces acrolein, a very destructive substance that is common in the brains of people with MS and whose life and activity are increased considerably in acidic blood (ideally blood pH should be between 7.4 and 7.44). Acrolein can be avoided by raising pH or by taking beta alanin a substanbce tat our body produces but whose production is blocked by acrolein!.
3) Excess Cu destroys vit B6, inositol and displaces zinc, reducing serotonin, GABA, etc, and greatly affecting mood, memory and lucidity, tissue repair (including the brain) and immune function (increasing susceptibility to viruses, fungy and bacteria)
4) Excess Cu/Fe causes Cu to bind to some Fe hormones and change their function. For example xanthine oxidase, the hormone that produces uric acid and MAO, the hromone that metabolizes serotonin, dopamine, lose theri function and become ascorbases (oxidize vit C, depleting it). By both lowering vit C and uric acid, oxidative damage increases considerably.
5) Copper and cadmium are retained more effectively because of high estrogen levels to start with and in turn both are estrogenic, so they increase prolactin levels, which in turn reduces libido and increases the risk of autoimmunity.
6) High Cd blocks vit D production (reducing Mg retention) and displaces Zn and Mg from many hormones. High Cd also catalyzes the conversion of vit C into oxalate (an urinary stone former), exacerbating the vit C deficiency caused by Cu.

Some problems common in Mg deficiency:
Muscle cramps and spasms, constipation, tachycardia or arrhythmia, hyperreflexia, hypertension, impaired short term memory, reduced pain threshold (pain can occur even when there is no damage), the person is easily startled, etc,

Harmful cravings:
1) High Cu/Zn causes impaired insulin function (fluctuating glucose levels) and distorted sense of taste, which tend to cause a craving for carbohydrates and an aversion to red meats (which eaten often in small amounts are the best source of iron, molybdenum and sulfur, which are low in MS), red wine and beer (which taken in moderation enhance iron absorption, but more than one glass a day increase elimination of Zn, Mg and all vits B in urine). Ironically, gouty people, who have excess iron crave red meats and beer (among the most likely things to trigger a gout attack).
2) Coffee abuse (an extremely common adiction) results in high niacin (which exacerbates the low vit B6 caused by excess Cu) and in impaired Fe absorption and increased Mg elimination. Tea abuse also impairs Fe absorption. In contrast, drinking carrot & beet or fresh fruit juices provides enormous benefits to people with MS.
3) Sodas (another extremely common adiction) increase Mg elimination and provide no minerals, vits, flavonoids, etc, while fresh juices provide tons of them. One of the flavonoids destroyed by excess copper is hesperidin which helps repair blood vessels, nerves, etc,
Last edited by search on Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Female MS the Antithesis of Gout

Postby search » Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:28 am

Haves and have-nots:
While millions of men over 30 & menopausal women often have ferritin>120 & hemoglobin>15.2, millions of young women have ferritin<20 & hemoglobin<13.5. If a blood unit (a pint) were transfused from 10 million of the former to 10 million of the latter, the public health impact would be monumental. More specifically, transfusing a pint of blood from a million men or menopausal women with gout (excess Fe, Mo, S & uric acid & low Cu) to a million women with multiple sclerosis (low Fe, Mo, S & uric acid & excess Cu & Cd) and having both take 200 mg/d Mg, 10 mg/d Si and 800 IU/d vit D and only the people with gout take 2 mg/d Cu would help 2 million people considerably.
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Re: Female MS the Antithesis of Gout

Postby Scott1 » Sat Mar 24, 2012 2:33 pm

Hi Search,

What you have said is broadly in the right direction. The substance you you referred to , ONOO, is also called Peroxynitrtite. If you just Google "peroxynitrite citric acid cycle" you will get pages of links to research pieces looking at how this substance disables disables a broad range of enzymes functions throughout the body. It is not a case of male or female. If you want to look at that relationship then you can spend months learning about a class of Genes called HERVs and a then start learning about the role of Synctin at the placental level. All you would deduce is the maternal line is more likely than the paternal to be the pathway that predisposition to illnesses that are passed on. It leads nowhere. Academic interest only.
Uric acid is a natural scavenger of peroxynitrite and elevated levels do cause gout. The actual class of substance at the root of the problem is called a Purine. Please just Google that if you are interested.
Many posters here are very good at identifying nutritional deficiencies in MS but I do think it is important to ask how and why they arise. The substance you called ONOO stops the proper activity of the class of enzymes that end in the word Hydrase and Hydrate. The single most significant cycle in our bodies is called the Krebs cycle or the citric acid cycle. When elements of that are disrupted by ONOO you cannot produce enough non-essential amino acids to remain healthy and most importantly you cannot produce enough of the basic product called Adenosine-5'-triphosphate. This is better known by its abbreviation - ATP. It drives all energy at the cell level.
I understand from these posts that money is tight but as a base line I suggest getting tested for your levels of Uric acid, non essential amino acids and Vitamin D levels. Then be careful about what your doctor tells you to do because as a rule they lack a bit of knowledge when dealing with this. There is every chance they will quietly check if you have other signatures of Lymphoma. You don't, I presume. If this interests you read the pages under the Regime section called "Avonex and Valtrex". I imagine others won't agree but I am very well and have seen improvements in others by adopting a similar approach. I can understand the budget can be an issue.

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Re: Female MS the Antithesis of Gout

Postby search » Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:51 pm

Hi Scott1,
Like everything in genetics, HERVs is only part of the problem. A women with HERVs who spent her first 20 years in Scotland, smoked a lot (provides Cd, As, acrolein, methanol, etc,), seldom ate beef and drank only whiskey in excess (increases Zn, Mg, folate & vits B6 and B12 elimination in ruine) and ate lots of canned fruits and vegetables or canned juices (contain methanol) is over a hundred times more likely to develop MS than her non smoker twin sister who grew up in sunny Australia drinking no more than one beer a day and eating lots of beef. Just like in gout many men with the gout gene never develop the disease or many people with genetic propensity for diabetes never develop it.
One problem with checking your serum Mg is that by far most of the Mg is in the tissues and very little in the serum, so a person with low tissue Mg may have levels of Mg considered normal. Moreover, reference values are almost useless, because by law they are determined by forcing 95% of the people analyzed the previous year in that lab to fall within the values. In my experience, If one takes excess Mg stool movements become too frequent and stool becomes too soft, one needs only to reduce slightly intake to return to normal.

By the way, while uric acid is made from purines, a 20 year old men who eats tons of purines but has a ferritin of 25 has normal uric acid and does not develop gout. The same men at age 45 has ferritin = 200, high molybdenum and retains less Cu because his testosterone is less than half what he made at age 20 and develops gout even eating fewer purines.
Last edited by search on Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:45 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Female MS the Antithesis of Gout

Postby Bethr » Sat Mar 24, 2012 7:34 pm

search wrote:Haves and have-nots:
While millions of men over 30 & menopausal women often have ferritin>120 & hemoglobin>15.2, millions of young women have ferritin<20 & hemoglobin<13.5. If a blood unit (a pint) were transfused from 10 million of the former to 10 million of the latter, the public health impact would be monumental. More specifically, transfusing a pint of blood from a million men or menopausal women with gout (excess Fe, Mo, S & uric acid & low Cu) to a million women with multiple sclerosis (low Fe, Mo, S & uric acid & excess Cu & Cd) and having both take 200 mg/d Mg, 10 mg/d Si and 800 IU/d vit D and only the people with gout take 2 mg/d Cu would help 2 million people considerably.


Thanks for the thread, it is very interesting.
My sister (with MS) and I (CIS), are the opposite. We both had high iron, ferritin >120 and I also had the high hb (usually around 150-160). I have had 8 phlebotomies to reduce iron and I'm well
again, so long as I keep ferritin <50, the hemoglobin sits at about 150. This is not as easy as it seems, even though I menstruate, and donate three monthly to keep these figures down.
I know there is a mechanism in there somewhere, at least i know what works for me.
I have had no more brain events since reducing iron levels, and my joints now move quite freely.
Fatigue is only occassionally, rather than every day.
When this joint and muscle stiffness is due to iron, they call it pseudo-gout I believe.
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Re: Female MS the Antithesis of Gout

Postby search » Sat Mar 24, 2012 8:11 pm

Hi Bethr,
You're likely to have hemochromatosis (a common hereditary disease with iron accumulation that it seriously underdiagnosed), have you been tested for any of the genes? at what age did you have ferritin>120 and what was the serum Fe or transferrin saturation? what is your sister's hgb and your and your sister's uric acid?
Your sister's ferritin could be high because of inflammation rather than because of excess iron. I've seen women with lupus and iron deficiency and ferritin of 1,000. When serum Fe & hgb are high ferritin is usually full of iron, when serum Fe & hgb are low ferritin is empty (apoferritin) and labs don't differentiate them.
Pseudogout is caused by calcium pyrophosphate crystals, which are produced when the person is low in thiamine and magnesium, so instead of making necessary and soluble thiamine pyrophosphate the body makes painful crystals of CaPP.
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Re: Female MS the Antithesis of Gout

Postby jimmylegs » Sat Mar 24, 2012 8:22 pm

oo there's a thought, bethr ;) (sry - irony) (OMG no pun intended)
READ ME key info on nutrient targets - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: Female MS the Antithesis of Gout

Postby Scott1 » Sun Mar 25, 2012 2:19 am

It is all interconnected
See-

http://hwmaint.jbc.org/cgi/content/full/272/32/19969

IRP-1 is Iron responsive element 1

There are 98,000 identified HERVs representing 7-8% of the human Genome. W class Hervs are associated with MS but they are not gender specific. Males do have MS. I am one of many. Where do I go on the blood transfusion idea?
Your original comment at the start of the thread about ONOO merits more attention.
98% of the general population carry antibodies to EBV. Most handle it without problems. We have W class HERVs which predispose some of our B cells to bind to EBV via a protein called BCL2. The EBV infected B cells can enter the CNS.
(see http://www.hindawi.com/journals/ad/2012/189096/ )

or see http://nro.sagepub.com/content/17/4/351.full.pdf

Once in the CNS the EBV infected B cells, produce two molecules of oxygen (OO) which reacts with Nitric oxide (NO) that occurs naturally to produce ONOO.

This has nothing to do with gender.
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Re: Female MS the Antithesis of Gout

Postby search » Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:11 am

Hi Scott1,
It's O2- (superoxide) that forms ONOO- and it persists only when CuZnSOD (copper-zinc superoxide dismutase, which I actually call MgCuZnSOD but which easily loses Mg, so it is detected as CuZnSOD) fails. It fails, when Zn or Mg are low in the cell, when Cd displaces its Zn or or when it is damaged (like all copper enzymes) by homocysteine, acrolein and other aldehydes, glycation, Pb, H2O2, etc,

My point is that two twin sisters with w HERVs experience completely different risk to develop MS, depending on environmental and dietary exposure, smoking, drinking, etc,

I started addressing female MS, which I consider a different entity from male MS (with or without Wilson's disease) and from MS in females with hemochromatosis, etc, in order not to further complicate the understanding of the already complex and more common female MS. But if you want to discuss it, if possible, please let me know your hgb, MCV, ferritin, serum Fe, uric acid, homocysteine, Ca, P, Na, Cl, urea, creatinine, albumin, globulins, indirect bilirubin, ALT, AST, GGT, ALP, etc, Most of these appear in a 24 element blood chemistry + cytometry, but ferritin, homocysteine, etc, must be ordered separately.

Sardines Vs. Tuna
Pregnant woman are advised not to eat tuna during pregnancy because it contains dangerous levels of mercury, cadmium, lead, arsenic, thallium, etc, which are being released by the ton every day in China, etc, and which long-lived tuna accumulate from each of the hundreds of small fish they eat in their lives. In cotrast, sardines have much shorter lives and accumulate mush less toxic metals. Moreover, sardines are eaten complete with their bones, etc, so they are a much better source of Mg, vits, etc,
Clams, oysters, etc, also accumulate large amounts of toxic metals because they filter water for a living.
Last edited by search on Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
search
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