A culprit to consider in Multiple Sclerosis?

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A culprit to consider in Multiple Sclerosis?

Postby MSUK » Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:45 am

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Study Summary

Vitamin D is a sterol hormone implicated in several immunologic pathways, and therefore it may help to prevent isolated immune-mediated central nervous system attacks from developing into recurrent disease. Low levels of 25-hydroxyvitamin D have been linked to greater risk for multiple sclerosis (MS) and higher relapse rates in patients with MS. The goal of this retrospective analysis was to evaluate the association between low serum levels of vitamin D and recurrent spinal cord disease.

Investigators at Johns Hopkins Transverse Myelitis Center in Baltimore, Maryland, measured 25-hydroxyvitamin D levels in 77 patients who had monophasic and recurrent inflammatory diseases of the spinal cord. After adjustment for season, age, sex, and race, patients who developed recurrent spinal cord disease had significantly lower vitamin D levels.... Read More - http://www.msrc.co.uk/index.cfm/fuseact ... ageid/1334
MS-UK - http://www.ms-uk.org/
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Re: A culprit to consider in Multiple Sclerosis?

Postby tedhutchinson » Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:43 pm

If we are going to benefit from the anti-inflammatory potential of Vitamin D3 we have to ensure 25(OH)D levels ABOVE 50ng/ml are attained and maintained ALL the time.
Naturally human skin generates 10,000 ~20,000iu of vitamin d3 given reasonable, non burning midday sun exposure. Humans evolved from species living around the equator living mainly outdoor lives with little if any clothing. It was the ones with the palest skin (with the greatest potential for creating and storing vitamin D3) who survived harsher conditions and longer winters further from the equator.
If we want to benefit from the evolutionary advantages stored vitamin d provides we have to use vitamin d3 in amounts equivalent to those produced by early humans. Not 20,000iu once a week more like 1000iu per 20lbs per day.
Sufficient to attain and maintain 25(OH)D levels above 60ng/ml 150nmol/l EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK not just once a week.
We have also to get out of the idea of thinking about anti inflammatory status as a single substance issue.
Those early ancestors lived on a diet of organic free range meat, fruit and veg. Higher in OMEGA 3 than any foods nowdays. Our beef is finished on grain (omega 6) and our chicken pork almost entirely grain fed to say nothing of our reliance on omega 6 seed/grain oils and wheat/grain based refined carbohydrate sugar/fructose based diet.

If we have 20 ~30 times more people throwing petrol on a fire and just 1 person throwing water on it what will happen? Will the fire go out or will the flames increase?

If we want the fire to die down we must stop the addition of more inflammatory substances and increase the sources and amounts of anti inflammatory substances so they overwhelm the pro inflammatory forces.
We therefore have to also remember that magnesium is a water soluble anti inflammatory mineral. Since our early ancestors strode the planet it has rained quite a lot and much of the magnesium that was on the soil is now in the sea. That may be why people tend to find sea bathing and having sea spray on their faces makes them feel better. Raising magnesium status to counterbalance calcium levels requires in the region of 400mg EXTRA magnesium daily. 100mg before each meal and another 100mg before bed in ADDITION to a diet high in magnesium food sources.

Those early humans had another advantage missing from our modern environment and that is a totally dark sky. Just perhaps light flickering from a fire at most. Human DNA is still set to produce the natural anti inflammatory agent melatonin from dusk to dawn but any light from whatever source reduces the amount created. So if we want to match the anti inflammatory status of our earliest ancestors we must consider replenishing our natural melatonin levels. Alongside correction or omega 3 omega 6 ratio and attaining and maintaining a 25(OH)D level above 60ng/ml 150nmol/l and replenishing our magnesium stores.

If you started doing ALL that NOW it will be 2 years before you would have corrected your anti inflammatory status and a trial of the combined effect of maintaining a realistic paleo level of natural anti inflammatory agents could begin.

Single substance anti inflammatory trials will never, on their own, prove anything worth knowing and we all here have sufficient common sense to understand why.

When our diet, lifestyle, environment are all providing more pro-inflammatory forces than we are deploying against them there is absolutely no hope the fire will be put out.
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Re: A culprit to consider in Multiple Sclerosis?

Postby Leonard » Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:58 am

http://web.inter.nl.net/users/vitaminda ... -in-ms.pdf

Vitamin D can help produce a natural antibiotics, cathelicidin, to help restore a normal balance in the gut flora.
Of course that needs vitamin D.

Supplementation may help. I do not exclude the possibility that 7 x 3000 IE (daily intake) is better than 25,000 I.E. once per week.
This was suggested as well in one of the above postings..

The vitamin D concept then is one with vitamin D content on both sides of intestinal lining i.e. in the flora and in the bloodstream. They are not necessarily the same, they do not necessarily work the same..
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Re: A culprit to consider in Multiple Sclerosis?

Postby tedhutchinson » Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:16 am

Leonard wrote:Supplementation may help. I do not exclude the possibility that 7 x 3000 IE (daily intake) is better than 25,000 I.E. once per week.
This was suggested as well in one of the above postings..
When we know perfectly well that the human body creates 10,000~20,000iu the moment it's given the chance of full body skin exposure to UVB it amazes me that anyone keeps on promoting the myth that amounts significantly under that level will have any significant impact on 25(OH)D levels?

Image
We can all see what happens in real life situations


As in practice it takes up to 10,000iu daily to get most of the population above 40ng/ml 100nmol/l we simply have to use that amount of vitamin d daily to achieve sensible results.

We have to use whatever it takes to raise 25(OH)D to effective levels 50~60ng/ml or 125~150nmol/l

Cityassays vitamin D blood spot test do £25 vitamin D tests £30 for international postage.

Suggesting amounts that are ridiculously low compared to what occurs naturally and what actually can be seen to be ineffective in practice is simply perpetuating the current situation.
Is that really what you intend?

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Albert Einstein.
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Re: A culprit to consider in Multiple Sclerosis?

Postby Leonard » Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:03 am

my comments were not on the absolute amount, no problem there.

it is about the frequency of intake, 7 times per week a smaller dosis is possibly better than 1 times per week the 7-fold dosis...

this is because the vitamin D may also do something within the gut flora itself...
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Re: A culprit to consider in Multiple Sclerosis?

Postby tedhutchinson » Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:36 am

Leonard wrote:it is about the frequency of intake, 7 times per week a smaller dosis is possibly better than 1 times per week the 7-fold dosis...

this is because the vitamin D may also do something within the gut flora itself...
That's true
I think ideally, as Vitamin D3 is naturally produced when UVB is at it's peak, it MAY be better to take your capsule/spray with your midday meal. It's a fat soluble vitamin and so best absorbed with fat.
There are some people who find taking vitamin d is energising and so taking it at night keeps them awake.
I think keeping levels high and stable is probably better than sudden steep changes in level so regular effective amounts are better than large amounts less often though I think for people who are newly diagnosed with MS, Cancer, Diabetes or Dementia the SOONER they raised 25(OH)D above 60ng/ml 150nmol/l the better and I'd encourage mega dosing with 50,000iu a day initially for a few days before dropping down to 10,000iu until the target level is reached.
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Re: A culprit to consider in Multiple Sclerosis?

Postby harry1 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:10 pm

I inagine that vitamin D would be good for those of us with CIDP as well.

Thanks for posting the vit D article Squiffy :-D .
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