Fluoride

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Fluoride

Postby want2bike » Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:06 am

Fluoride is a drug that the government has decided we need so the put it in the water. When you look on the back of your toothpaste they tell you it is a poison. Think the best solution for this is a reverse osmosis water system. Fluoride is not a vitamin or mineral but a toxin and we do not need it in our bodies. I sent a message to the FDA about this but they are a joke. Maybe if they get enough response to this they will take it seriously. Google FDA and leave them a message on their website.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpw5fGt4UvI

http://www.consumerhealth.org/articles/ ... 0303222823
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Re: Fluoride

Postby lyndacarol » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:26 am

I agree with your opinion about fluoride.
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Re: Fluoride

Postby jimmylegs » Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:57 pm

locally, we have been looking at discontinuing water fluoridation in the last year or two. i don't have my finger precisely on the pulse, but i remember some tidbits of info..

early research established fluoride as a beneficial 'nutrient' useful in preventing tooth decay. same rationale as adding iodine to salt, or calcium and d3 to beverages. etc. we know much more now, about nutrition and oral health.. yet the fluoride tradition continues..

as for whether your fluoridated water is safe.. research the parts per million in your local water supply, vs naturally occurring amounts in various areas, vs levels established in research to be detrimental, and then decide what treatment your water may or may not need.
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Re: Fluoride

Postby want2bike » Sun Feb 17, 2013 7:31 pm

Do you have any research you can post showing fluoride is a benefical nutrient?
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Re: Fluoride

Postby jimmylegs » Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:13 pm

it's out there in the historical record, was interesting stuff, but i don't have time to track it all down again personally.

i suggest using the advanced google scholar search to look for articles by decade (or groups of decades) containing keywords 'fluoride' and 'caries'.

for starters this next link was the result of a search on fluoride dental caries, with the date fields set to 1880-1900.
article contains a table of constituents of enamel, dentine, and bone on p. 10, which includes reference to fluoride, among other things:

The student's guide to dental anatomy and surgery (1883)
http://books.google.ca/books?hl=en&lr=& ... &q&f=false
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Re: Fluoride

Postby blossom » Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:46 am

there is no benefit whatsoever unless you are considering the the greedy ones at have and are benefiting.

http://www.kipnews.org/2012/04/15/healt ... the-brain/
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Re: Fluoride

Postby NHE » Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:20 am

Excessive fluoride can damage your bones causing osteosclerosis.

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Re: Fluoride

Postby jimmylegs » Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:42 am

fluoride deficiency or repletion is one discussion... the perceived need for supplementation in drinking water supplies is an entirely different sort of chat.

THE NON-ESSENTIALITY OF FLUORINE IN NUTRITION
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/62/4/561.full.pdf

here's an interesting nuance of fluoride nutrition:

Effects of Fluoride on Magnesium Deficiency in the Guinea Pig
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/92/3/311.full.pdf

Effect of fluoride on the mobilization of skeletal magnesium and soft-tissue calcinosis during acute magnesium deficiency in the rat
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1271120

i would suggest that a notable benefit of fluoride is to protect against specific outcomes of essential nutrient deficiencies.. think i'm arriving at the same conclusion i did before.. using fluoride for dental health, in lieu of essential nutrients, sounds to me like using inosine to elevate uric acid, rather than correcting underlying low zinc levels. protective perhaps, but not going to the.. root :S of the problem
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Re: Fluoride

Postby want2bike » Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:29 am

I googled fluoride but couldn't find any actual studies showing fluoride prevents tooth decay. One article which speculates on the effect of tooth decay say ingesting the fluoride does has minimal effect on tooth decay. If you choose to believe what they are saying it is best to have the fluoride applied to the teeth and not ingested. Every article I can find says fluoride can be a poison if too much is ingested. Since we all drink different amounts of water we are exposed to a different amounts of Fluoride. Maybe it would be best if our government allow each of us to determine how much fluoride we want to put in our bodies. I do not want to take the chance with any toxic substance so I have purchased a reverse osmosis water filter but it is sad that our government trys to force these things upon us.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoride_therapy
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Re: Fluoride

Postby ScutFarkus » Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:14 am

want2bike wrote:I googled fluoride but couldn't find any actual studies showing fluoride prevents tooth decay.

It seems you're not doing it right. Don't just google "fluoride", but instead try searching for something more direct, like "studies showing fluoride prevents tooth decay", or going to a site (such as Wikipedia) that provides references.

Here's a paper showing that fluoride prevents tooth decay: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17891121

You can find more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_fluo ... ence_basis

want2bike wrote:Every article I can find says fluoride can be a poison if too much is ingested.

You realize that this is true of most (if not all) things we ingest, right? You can die from drinking too much water, even unfluoridated water! You will die if you breath too much oxygen. Most vitamins and supplements are toxic in large quantities.

want2bike wrote:I do not want to take the chance with any toxic substance so I have purchased a reverse osmosis water filter but it is sad that our government trys to force these things upon us.

Good luck with that. It will take a heck of a lot more than a reverse osmosis filter to protect you from all toxic substances. You'd pretty much have to stop eating, drinking, and breathing. It's reasonable to question whether or not we need fluoridated water, but its safety is well established.

Go watch "Dr. Strangelove" and see which side of the debate makes more sense. :wink:

/Scut
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Re: Fluoride

Postby want2bike » Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:41 pm

I do not normally believe studies done by the government since they or more interested in the money than my health. The article you post mainly states the position of the government but gives very little detail about the studies they claim. Actually I have a TDS meter which measures the particles left in the water and it does a good job of getting the particles our of the water. I do not plan on drinking too much water, breathing too much oxygen or taking too many vitamins. I have investigate health and limiting the toxins I am exposed to and eating fruits and vegetables have made the differnce in my health. You can ingest as much fluoride as you like thinking you are helping your teeth but the side effects of this poison are much worse. Do not think putting poison in the body in any amount is good. Fluoride might not be good for a weaken immune system. Maybe it would be best if our government allows each of us to make the decision as to wheither we want the fluoride.

http://www.consumerhealth.org/articles/ ... 0303222823
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Re: Fluoride

Postby civickiller » Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:31 pm

not to brag but i love that hawaii doesnt flourinate the water here
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Re: Fluoride

Postby want2bike » Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:36 pm

When I got a copy of the Annual Water Quality Report for my city they list the contaminants of the water. Fluoride in my water range from 1.42 - 1.54 PPM. Government regulations set upper limits of fluoride at 4ppm. I contacted the city to see if I could convince them not to put fluoride in the water but they claim they do not put it in the water. They claim the fluoride is coming from the enviroment. Wheither that is the truth I do not know. Guess it doesn't really matter since there are other things in the water I do not want in my body. Things like barium, chromium, lead, nitrate-nitrite, copper, radium(-226 & -228) are allowable in limited quanities. I do not want these things in my body in any quanity. They do not check for things like arsenic, mercury and drugs in the city where I live. Hope you have good water but might want to get a water report from your city to see exactly what is in your water. Even with the report there could be things in the water they do not test for. The fact that I have an filter on my water supply makes me feel better.

http://www.globalhealingcenter.com/water/water-toxins
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Re: Fluoride

Postby jimmylegs » Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:09 pm

http://www.ada.org/sections/newsAndEven ... _facts.pdf
During the 1930s, Dr. H. Trendley Dean, a dental officer of the U.S. Public Health Service, and his associates conducted classic epidemiological studies on the geographic distribution and severity of fluorosis in the United States.10 These early studies were aimed at evaluating how high the fluoride levels in water could be before visible, severe dental fluorosis occurred. By 1936, Dean and his staff had made the critical discovery that fluoride levels of up to 1.0 part per million (ppm) in the drinking water did not cause the more severe forms of dental fluorosis. Dean additionally noted a correlation between fluoride levels in the water and reduced incidence of dental decay.11,12

a bit more history
The Story of Fluoridation
http://www.nidcr.nih.gov/OralHealth/Top ... dation.htm
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Re: Fluoride

Postby hijeenie » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:27 pm

I always hate to take part in a fluoride debate but I will say that since my community removed fluoride from the water a few years ago I have seen an increase in the incidence of dental decay- I am a dental hygienist. I was speaking to a friend at PublicHealth and the rate has increased,I can't remember the stat right now. Most of us on this board are diligent with our diet and restrict sugar, but I can say that is not so of the general public.The effects of soda (or as we say pop) energy drinks and sports drinks is unbelievable. We are seeing young teens with rampant decay and flattened biting surfaces from acid erosion. I don't push anyone about fluoride but I am big on diet and how it effects the whole person including our teeth.
Too much of anything is not good as was previously said.
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