Salt may stimulate MS immune activity

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Salt may stimulate MS immune activity

Postby Anonymoose » Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:03 pm

http://www.nationalmssociety.org/news/n ... x?nid=7446
Aldosterone, which we secrete constantly w/o intervention, increases salt retention.
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Re: Salt may stimulate MS immune activity

Postby blossom » Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:07 am

hi anonymoose, was wondering if you had read if this salt research was done with ordinary table salt most commonly used that is stripped of most of the over 84 minerals that is found in a good sea salt or did they use a good sea salt? also, i wonder if they were given enough water?

when i can stay away from food prepared outside my home that is salted so heavily. i can use as much "good" sea salt as i want "as long as i drink sufficient amt.s of water and my blood pressure stays good-it actualy can get too low, my feet swell less i feel better. when there is any length of time that i cannot for reasons have home cooked and all the food is soooo salty i can drink and drink but my pressure rises, and i retain water terribly.

i'm wondering if bad salt combined with dehydration is more of the culprit in bringing on these mice symptoms and human symptoms and then having a snow ball effect because of the damage this can cause to other organs etc.
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Re: Salt may stimulate MS immune activity

Postby CureOrBust » Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:16 am

blossom wrote:was wondering if you had read if this salt research was done with ordinary table salt most commonly used that is stripped of most of the over 84 minerals that is found in a good sea salt


http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Conditions/HighBloodPressure/PreventionTreatmentofHighBloodPressure/Sea-Salt-Vs-Table-Salt_UCM_430992_Article.jsp
“The minute amounts of trace minerals found in sea salt are easily obtained from other healthy foods,” Johnson said. “Sea salt also generally contains less iodine than table salt. Iodine has been added to table salt since the 1920s to prevent the iodine-deficiency disease goiter.”


If you are getting your minerals from salt, then you can bet your using too much.
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Re: Salt may stimulate MS immune activity

Postby jimmylegs » Sun Mar 10, 2013 5:27 am

there's also iodized sea salt available. ages ago i read an estimate somewhere saying that 75% of average joe's sodium intake comes from processed food.

i would be extremely surprised if there is anyone out there counting on salt to deliver their various mineral requirements.

as for sodium, that reminds me of some of the oldest reading i did on ms.. the first book and maybe only book on the subject that someone handed to me in person. by a local woman who did a lot of research with the crew at mcmaster, looking at the whole thing in terms of axon damage and sodium channels etc.

backgrounder..

Sodium Channels and Multiple Sclerosis: Roles in Symptom Production, Damage and Therapy
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17388954
Our understanding of the potential role of sodium channels in multiple sclerosis (MS) has grown substantially in recent years. The channels have long had a recognized role in the symptomatology of the disease, but now also have suspected roles in causing permanent axonal destruction, and a potential role in modulating the intensity of immune activity. Sodium channels might also provide an avenue to achieve axonal and neuronal protection in MS, thereby impeding the otherwise relentless advance of permanent neurological deficit. The symptoms of MS are largely determined by the conduction properties of axons and these, in turn, are largely determined by sodium channels. The number, subtype and distribution of the sodium channels are all important, together with the way that channel function is modified by local factors, such as those resulting from inflammation (eg, nitric oxide). Suspicion is growing that sodium channels may also contribute to the axonal degeneration primarily responsible for permanent neurological deficits. The proposed mechanism involves intra-axonal sodium accumulation which promotes reverse action of the sodium/calcium exchanger and thereby a lethal rise in intra-axonal calcium. Partial blockade of sodium channels protects axons from degeneration in experimental models of MS, and therapy based on this approach is currently under investigation in clinical trials. Some recent findings suggest that such systemic inhibition of sodium channels may also promote axonal protection by suppressing inflammation within the brain.

nutrient connections re one particular type of sodium channel:

Intracellular thiol-mediated modulation of epithelial sodium channel activity
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15623528
Abstract
The epithelial sodium channel ENaC is physiologically important in the kidney for the regulation of the extracellular fluid volume, and in the lungs for the maintenance of the appropriate airway surface liquid volume that lines the pulmonary epithelium. Besides the regulation of ENaC by hormones, intracellular factors such as Na(+) ions, pH, or Ca(2+) are responsible for fast adaptive responses of ENaC activity to changes in the intracellular milieu. In this study, we show that ENaC is rapidly and reversibly inhibited by internal sulfhydryl-reactive molecules such as methanethiosulfonate derivatives of different sizes, the metal cations Cd(2+) and Zn(2+), or copper(II) phenanthroline, a mild oxidizing agent that promotes the formation of disulfide bonds. At the single channel level, these agents applied intracellularly induce the appearance of long channel closures, suggesting an effect on ENaC gating. The intracellular reducing agent dithiothreitol fully reverses the rundown of ENaC activity in inside-out patches. Our observations suggest that changes in intracellular redox potential modulate ENaC activity and may regulate ENaC-mediated Na(+) transport in epithelia. Finally, substitution experiments reveal that multiple cysteine residues in the amino and carboxyl termini of ENaC subunits are responsible for this thiol-mediated inhibition of ENaC.
(nb cadmium bad.. body mistakes it for zinc so cd can tie up zinc receptors)

VERY recent research... (feb 2013)
just throwing this in to make the ENaC/MS connection:

Inhibition of Neuronal Degenerin/Epithelial Na+ Channels by the Multiple Sclerosis Drug 4-Aminopyridine
http://www.jbc.org/content/early/2013/0 ... 3.full.pdf
Capsule
Background: 4-AP treats the symptoms of MS because it inhibits Kv channels. Deg/ENaC channels contribute to the progression of MS. Results: 4-AP also inhibits Deg/ENaC channels. Conclusions: Effects on both Kv and Deg/ENaC

(are 'capsules' a new thing, or have i just not been reading the journals that use them??)
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: Salt may stimulate MS immune activity

Postby Anonymoose » Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:44 pm

Blossom,
I don't know what kind of salt they used in the study. I wish I had access to full texts of all studies. Wouldn't that be awesome?! I think sodium is sodium and no matter what it is coupled with, it affects us in the same way once all the elements split up in our bodies.

Jimmy,
That study from 2007 makes me mad. If its clear all of these minerals and channels are so involved in MS, why are they taking so long to give us treatments based on that knowledge?! On the other hand, it can't be too long before they nail the cause of those imbalances...or can it?
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Re: Salt may stimulate MS immune activity

Postby jimmylegs » Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:00 pm

sadly, it's a blink of an eye in science terms anon :(

plus.. cynic says, the emphasis won't be on broad spectrum nutrition optimization to make the channels work properly and/or reduce inflammation.. it will be on narrowly focused drug treatments. so that you need a different product for each of 50 different conditions rather than a single nutrient that hits diverse targets. just guessing.
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: Salt may stimulate MS immune activity

Postby Anonymoose » Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:04 pm

jimmylegs wrote:sadly, it's a blink of an eye in science terms anon :(

plus.. cynic says, the emphasis won't be on broad spectrum nutrition optimization to make the channels work properly and/or reduce inflammation.. it will be on narrowly focused drug treatments. so that you need a different product for each of 50 different conditions rather than a single nutrient that hits diverse targets. just guessing.

<cough>clonidine is one drug<cough> :P and yes...I am completely incorrigible!
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Re: Salt may stimulate MS immune activity

Postby jimmylegs » Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:03 pm

ah yes, how could i forget?? *cough*didn't*cough*
hey if clonidine is made of all the nutrients that ms patients lack, and it does everything that those nutrients do in healthy folks, sign me up. ;)
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: Salt may stimulate MS immune activity

Postby Anonymoose » Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:23 pm

jimmylegs wrote:ah yes, how could i forget?? *cough*didn't*cough*
hey if clonidine is made of all the nutrients that ms patients lack, and it does everything that those nutrients do in healthy folks, sign me up. ;)

Heh. It doesn't. I've had a new thought though. I don't think everyone has the same imbalance. Therefore, clonidine won't help everyone and it surely shouldn't be taken by someone with low BP. Shocker. lol Could use your expertise on a new thread I'm about to throw out there...
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Re: Salt may stimulate MS immune activity

Postby jimmylegs » Sun Mar 10, 2013 4:37 pm

definitely it helps to measure. ms patients have been characterized in a particular way but that doesn't mean we're identical. wrt BP, previous site polls have shown some of us are high BP, others the opposite. see you over there.
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: Salt may stimulate MS immune activity

Postby blossom » Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:37 pm

thanks guys, i think what i was trying to say isn't what is taken. of course i'm not trying to get my minerals all from salt. and when i said i use as much as i want i don't open the lid and dump. i was just referring that table salt has been messed with like so much of the food. chemical additives to prevent clumping etc. and god knows what-aluminum which myself when tested i was very high "that's not good" and yes they added the iodine and i make sure i am getting iodine in other sources. people eat so much food that has been messed with in the first place and i'm just saying that i notice the difference in myself when eating this stuff that is salted to death compared to not. the rise in auto immune and many diseases could messed with salt be one of the culprits? along with not enough water intake. i can't buy into the so called experts telling us that changing something from it's natural state to foreign isn't effecting us more than is admitted. even down to salt something that was changed and few can avoid. and our body does require salt-what do they shot in us in the hosp. - saline water. we're all fishing and figureing here--

here's food for thought
http://www.growyouthful.com/tips/salt.php
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Re: Salt may stimulate MS immune activity

Postby tzootsi » Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:52 am

Any discovery related to MS is of course positive, but I wonder about this one. If salt is a culprit, why then is MS not found more in cultures that ingest a lot of it, like Asian countries, Mexico, etc? I don't believe that Scotland and Canada (which have very high MS) are noted for high salt intake.
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Re: Salt may stimulate MS immune activity

Postby want2bike » Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:56 am

There are many causes of MS. The people in Canada and Scotland may be vitamin D deficent. The people in Asia and Mexico may get more vitamin D. It is not just salt. The problem we have is all the process foods we eat have salt in them. Manufactures use salt as a perservative in everything. Anytime we eat something out of a package or a can we are eating salt. What kind of salt are they using? I have recently started using Himalayan Pink Salt. This is the best choice in my opinion. I am always concerned about the added ingredients in products and I notice the 2nd ingredient in table salt is Calcuim Silicate. When I look at the Material Safety Data Sheet for this chemical it states, "This product is not intended to be ingested or eaten under normal use. If ingested it may cause temporary irratation to the GI tract, especially the stomack". Sea salt comes from the polluted oceans and has Yellow Prussiate Soda in it. What are these chemicals doing in my salt? Salt could be the problem but it could be the other chemicals which are in the salt. When you reach for the salt it is not just sodium chloride you are putting on your food.

http://healthybliss.net/sea-salt-with-c ... e-of-soda/

http://www.glasscellisofab.com/sheets/c ... Blocks.pdf

http://www.saltworks.us/himalayan-salt.asp
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Re: Salt may stimulate MS immune activity

Postby Anonymoose » Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:21 am

tzootsi and want2bike,
I don't think it's just salt intake that causes the problem. I think it's the way our bodies handle the salt (and other minerals). Vitamin D plays a part in that metabolism as it negatively regulates salt retention by inhibiting RAAS.

tzootsi,
I think asian genes, diet, and healthcare are so dramatically different from that of the usual MS crowd. Surely those factors must play into their low MS rates. The asian gene pool was likely contaminated by the viking gene I think when Marco Polo was hanging out around there. I'm guessing the prevalence of that gene (if it is a contributor) is still pretty small in asian countries. Don't know much about Mexico...I think Scotland has a pretty high rate of hypertension (salt related?) but I could be remembering incorrectly.

want2bike,
Himalayan sea salt?? I'm guessing you don't use a lot of salt. That's what I use to make my scrambled tofu taste a bit eggy. The sulfur taste is pretty strong!

blossom,
Never in a million years would I think you douse your food in salt. You're far too aware and intelligent to do something like that!
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Re: Salt may stimulate MS immune activity

Postby want2bike » Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:19 am

Salt is not the problem. It is the other chemicals in the salt which are the problem. Yes, I like Himalayan salt. I can't tell the difference.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/artic ... n=20130404
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