Jimmylegs...too much vitamin d = ouch?

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Re: Jimmylegs...too much vitamin d = ouch?

Postby jimmylegs » Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:37 am

;) no worries anon, was just pulling a mini-tantrum for funsies hehe
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Re: Jimmylegs...too much vitamin d = ouch?

Postby want2bike » Sat Jan 04, 2014 7:18 am

Not trying to get you upset but just wondering if you knew the corn meal in the bread is probably GMO? When you speak of eating pork are you aware of what it says in the Bible in Leviticus Chapter 11? Most animals we eat today are sicker than we are so I do not eat a lot of animals. Unless you buy organic meat the animals are full of steroids, pesticides, GMO food, antibiotics and an assortment of chemicals. My thought are that people who are sick should keep their diet as clean as possible. None of us are perfect in the choices we make but it is good to have the information so we can make the choice. The reason I buy Ezekiel bread is because it is the only bread I have found which does not seem to have any bad stuff. I always try to make it as clean as I can at home. Do not eat a lot of bread since the only meat I eat at home is wild caught salmon. It is always a problem making good choices when you eat out.

http://www.ensignmessage.com/archives/porkfacts.html

http://flowerpick.hubpages.com/hub/meatoxic
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Re: Jimmylegs...too much vitamin d = ouch?

Postby jimmylegs » Sat Jan 04, 2014 7:32 am

again, I'm not stressed that my diet isn't perfect. I eat corn chips occasionally too. i am aware of various religious restrictions on eating meat. not sure about the origins or logic of any of them. I'm also aware of the issues associated with industrial food. i ate a highly restricted diet on principle for over a decade and got very very sick as a result. balance is required.
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Re: Jimmylegs...too much vitamin d = ouch?

Postby CaveMan » Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:27 pm

Regarding the oats mentioned earlier, the link posted was one sided and did not even consider any negative aspects of oats with a lot of unsubstantiated claims, regarding the antioxidants, re bound and unbound, it didn't show that the bound ones were even accessable, to me it read more like a hypothesis. Nutrient binding proporties of cereal fibre & phytates is well known, so a table showing nutrient value in rda needs to be taken with a "grain of salt" as many of these will just pass straight through and some may even go negative as nutrients from other foodstuffs may also be bound and transported to the sewer in the next flush.

Having said that, oats are better than wheat, but rice is probably the least harmful of the common grains.
Their micronutrient value is negligable or even negative as mentioned, they should primarily be considered as an easy source of energy (carbohydrate) and just to finish off on that one, if it's carbs you want then starchy tubers & veg are a far superior option.

Regarding the bread story, sprouted is better than not, but traditional sourdough, particularly if the loaf is leavened for 24hrs + is by far the best option. There have been a number of studies done that show gluten and other complex proteins can be significantly broken down by the sourdough culture which contains a broad spectrum flora of bacteria, yeasts & fungi, though lactobacillus is the dominant one. The difference being with modern bread making is it is a monoculture yeast that only acts as a gas generator, fermenting sugar to alcohol and making CO2, whereas in sourdough the bacteria and fungi also degrade complex protein components like gluten, which our bodies can more easily process then and effectively turn the toxins into nutrients.
The switch from traditional sourdough to yeast in breadmaking over the last 100yrs may well be another key point in the loss of nutrition through modernisation.
I am just an interested individual trying to crack the autoimmune nut.
Partner has Graves Disease, 5 years, showing good test results, looking forward to potential remission in the near future.
3 friends have MS, 1 just recently diagnosed, severity 7/10.
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Re: Jimmylegs...too much vitamin d = ouch?

Postby jimmylegs » Sat Jan 04, 2014 1:53 pm

re the link, there are some concerns listed on that page, and a lot of page references are provided at the bottom. they could do a better job with in text citation.

re not showing that bound ones were accessible - is the criticism that the research exists showing that they are released, but that it wasn't covered in detail?
results of a generic preliminary search
http://scholar.google.ca/scholar?q=inte ... _sdt=0%2C5

sourdough is definitely another good option for reducing gluten intake - still fun sourcing the products with the best ingredient list. i was offered some sourdough yesterday and accepted a taste, but it was white bread so meh.

time for a tantrum yet, anon? ;)
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Re: Jimmylegs...too much vitamin d = ouch?

Postby Anonymoose » Sat Jan 04, 2014 3:15 pm

Tantrum? Me?! Not at all. I'm just sitting here eating my faux BLT on delicious full gluten bread...celebrating the fact that the food police can't find me!!!

Carry on! Lol
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Re: Jimmylegs...too much vitamin d = ouch?

Postby jimmylegs » Sat Jan 04, 2014 3:49 pm

:D hehehe

about to enjoy a filet of salmon on a bed of quinoa tabouli myself :) to wash down the demon-pizza I had earlier ;)

cheers
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Re: Jimmylegs...too much vitamin d = ouch?

Postby CaveMan » Sat Jan 04, 2014 4:04 pm

jimmylegs wrote:re the link, there are some concerns listed on that page, and a lot of page references are provided at the bottom. they could do a better job with in text citation.

re not showing that bound ones were accessible - is the criticism that the research exists showing that they are released, but that it wasn't covered in detail?
results of a generic preliminary search
http://scholar.google.ca/scholar?q=inte ... _sdt=0%2C5

sourdough is definitely another good option for reducing gluten intake - still fun sourcing the products with the best ingredient list. i was offered some sourdough yesterday and accepted a taste, but it was white bread so meh.

time for a tantrum yet, anon? ;)


I've become quite a cynic of scientific studies and claims over the years, just pulled out one by the relevant researcher from your link.
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf0205099
Bound phytochemicals could survive stomach and intestinal digestion to reach the colon. This may partly explain the mechanism of grain consumption in the prevention of colon cancer, other digestive cancers, breast cancer, and prostate cancer, which is supported by epidemiological studies.


Firstly, could and may give it away entirely, they are suggestive of possibilities and these contain both positive and negative outcomes, so their statement covers them even if it is shown that grains are detrimental to ones health because they have not made a definitive statement. The other point is thgat nothing in the world can be supported by an epidemialogical study, it can only be suggested, i.e. a hypothesis can be proposed, so in actuality they have used a hypothesis to support a possibility that bound antioxidants in grains might be accessible in the colon and carefully leaving the door open to the negative outcome being just as likely to cover themselves.

The journal it was published in does not instil me with great confidence either, the title reads like an agri-business vehicle, I could not get access to full paper or disclosure information, but I could suggest with more certainty than they have in their conclusion that funding was most likely from a grain corporation.
My cynicisim is continually reinforced as I read through different studies, more and more they are worded with a drive to achieve greater funding by overstating conclusions without adequate evidence, once this is ascertained, then it is hard to recover the value in the study as any valuable data has been distorted and made over to achieve as close as possible to the predetermined conclusions as outlined by the sponsor.
Having said that there are some gems out there, some really good stuff does come out of university phd's and other indipendent sources, but they are few and far between.

Not quite a "tanty", but does qualify as a decent "rant"
I am just an interested individual trying to crack the autoimmune nut.
Partner has Graves Disease, 5 years, showing good test results, looking forward to potential remission in the near future.
3 friends have MS, 1 just recently diagnosed, severity 7/10.
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Re: Jimmylegs...too much vitamin d = ouch?

Postby jimmylegs » Sat Jan 04, 2014 4:58 pm

mmmmm salmon :)
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Re: Jimmylegs...too much vitamin d = ouch?

Postby Anonymoose » Sat Jan 04, 2014 5:11 pm

But was it wild Alaskan salmon? Because the farmed salmon are probably worse for you than gluten! And did you cook the salmon properly? Pull out that fish meat thermometer to make sure you didn't degrade the omega fatty acids? :P
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Re: Jimmylegs...too much vitamin d = ouch?

Postby jimmylegs » Sat Jan 04, 2014 5:20 pm

tell me straight, anon. am I going to die?
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Re: Jimmylegs...too much vitamin d = ouch?

Postby Anonymoose » Sat Jan 04, 2014 5:32 pm

Yes. Without a doubt, you will die. I'm dying too...for a diet coke!!
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Re: Jimmylegs...too much vitamin d = ouch?

Postby jimmylegs » Sat Jan 04, 2014 5:36 pm

tsk tsk :)
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Re: Jimmylegs...too much vitamin d = ouch?

Postby Anonymoose » Mon Jan 06, 2014 7:26 am

Time to take this to la la land...put your suppose cap on.

Do you suppose this calcitriol thing is my body saying "Oh hey! Looky there! I can make loads of calcitriol now! I'm going to pump it out like mad to repair this bone loss!?"

Rrmsers have normal, but lower than healthy controls, calcitriol levels and bone loss is documented as early as CIS.

The mser who high dosed vitamin d for many years and then went hypercalcemic...do you suppose she managed to do what the mega vitamin d dosers are doing (similar reaction to calcitriol in mice some suspect). So, she recovered her ability to pump out calcitriol and it went to town?

Calcitriol levels: http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/content ... 6.full.pdf
Bone density loss papers all over the place!
Hypercalcemic mser: jimmylegs regimen thread
High dose vitamin d: I dunno...I picked it up here and there. I'm too lazy to source today!

As I can only manage 250-500mg/day of calcium supplement, how long do you suppose it might take to repair it all IF that is what is happening? Maybe I (ahem...or you) can figure out how long this vitamin d issue might last...in la la land.

I've been getting some really mild muscle tension in my leg and bum at night sometimes...soon need to add magnesium but not sure how to do it because thus far it has amped up the nerves.

If one can assume recovery from the ms calcitriol issue is like recovery from hyperparathyroidism, it looks like at least a year of rebuilding. http://www.parathyroid.com/osteoporosis.htm I was hoping a few weeks. Interesting that my pth is low now. Wish I had pre-rituxan numbers.
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Re: Jimmylegs...too much vitamin d = ouch?

Postby Anonymoose » Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:29 am

Supposing aside, does this bone supplement look better than the other one? I like the lower d and mag...seems like it would be a good place to start and can add extra separately. And it has the b's!

Serving size 4 capsules
Total Carbohydrate...<1 g
Vitamin C(ascorbic acid)...100 mg
Vitamin D(as cholecalciferol)...600 IU
Vitamin K(as phytonadione)...300 mcg
Thiamin(as thiamin HCl) (vitamin B1)...20 mg
Riboflavin(vitamin BSUB2SUB)...20 mg
Niacin(as niacinamide)...50 mg
Vitamin BSUB6SUB(as pyridoxine HCl)...25 mg
Folic Acid...800 mcg
Vitamin BSUB12SUB(as cyanocobalamin)...20 mcg
Pantothenic Acid(as calcium D-pantothenate)...20 mg
Calcium(from calcium carbonate, tricalcium phosphate, calcium lactate, calcium Kreb's cycle chelates**, and calcium citrate)...600 mg
Phosphorus(from tricalcium phosphate)...96 mg
Magnesium(as magnesium oxide and magnesium aspartate)...250 mg
Zinc(as zinc picolinate)...20 mg
Selenium(as sodium selenite)...100 mcg
Copper(as copper gluconate)...2 mg
Manganese(as manganese aspartate)...7 mg
Chromium(as chromium aspartate)...200 mcg
Molybdenum(as sodium molybdate)...50 mcg
Sodium...10 mg
Betaine HCl...20 mg
Boron(as boron Kreb's cycle chelates)**...2 mg
Strontium(as strontium chloride)...2 mg
Silicon(from sodium metasilicate)...1 mg
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