Who are the viral experts, here?

If it's on your mind and it has to do with multiple sclerosis in any way, post it here.

Postby CureOrBust » Mon Jun 26, 2006 2:10 am

from my understanding, antibiotics usually affect the bacteria DNA or "burst" them open or something. How do ant-virals work? before I read about this drug, i thought there were no drugs that could be used against a virus.
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Postby gibbledygook » Mon Jun 26, 2006 3:20 am

I couldn't discern any obvious side effects from the valacyclovir. Although goodness knows what curious internal effects occurred after ingesting such a large blue pill!
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Thanks, All!

Postby Minai » Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:42 am

Hi,

Ian, before I forget, I just wanted to mention how stupid it was for me to say that I was thinking that my daughter's early exposure to EBV might protect her from MS. I mean, early exposure was what you said you had :(

But, will still try to maintain my hope for her :)

gibbedlygook,

Sure appreciate you sharing your experiences, both with anti-virals and antibiotics. I found your thread in the Regimen Module. Wow!

I wish my labs had come back positive for chlamydia, or some other infection, instead of stupid EBV. Then, maybe, I'd have more hope for treatments.

CureorBust,

Here is a link I found when I did a quick Google search before bed, last night:

http://web.uct.ac.za/depts/mmi/jmoodie/antivir2.html

Seems to explain things in layman's terms to me, rather well. And raises many questions:

"The alpha and beta Interferons
are cytokines which are secreted by virus infected cells.
They bind to specific receptors on adjacent cells and protect them from infection by viruses.
They form part of the immediate protective host response to invasion by viruses.
In addition to these direct antiviral effects, alpha and beta interferon also enhance the expression of class I and class II MHC molecules on the surface of infected cells, in this way, enhancing the presentation of viral antigens to specific immune cells. Their presence can be demonstrated in body fluids during the acute phase of virus infection."

OK, so if Interferons are only effective before a virus invades, how can Betaseron help, AFTER viral invasion :?:

This was the question that I fell asleep with, last night, and one I'd like to find time to study, today.

Lots to do :?

Minai
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Postby bromley » Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:00 am

Minai,

On the issue of your daughter - try not to worry too much. She is unlikely to develop MS (statistically speaking) and the next five years will see big breakthroughs and much better treatments (I'm a natural pessimist but still believe this).

In terms of EBV - it may well be a trigger / cause of MS in some - but this has yet to be proved. The important thing is for the researchers to develop much better therapies for stopping any further damage and for repairing established damage. Lots and lots of work is going on in these areas. One of the top UK MS researchers thinks the following (and his views are shared by many others):

In the next few years, research in several promising areas is likely to bear fruit, especially:

- an improved understanding of how best to apply treatments that modify the immune response and to limit the effects of MS,

- the implementation of neuroprotective strategies, including the MS Society’s trial of lamotrigine, to prevent disability from occurring, and

- progress on how to repair the damaged nervous system in MS to help with recovery from established disability.


It's frustrating that we seem so near, but better times are getting nearer.

Ian
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Minocycline an Anti-Viral ???

Postby Shayk » Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:02 pm

Ian

I never thought you'd utter :wink:
better times are getting nearer
I truly believe they are as well.

For you and Minai--here's some info suggesting minocycline might be an anti-viral agent. Of course, the studies aren't on EBV :roll: but I thought I'd post them anyway. Here’s an abstract on Minocycline and HIV activity in Macaques.
CONCLUSIONS: In this experimental SIV model of HIV CNS disease, minocycline reduced the severity of encephalitis, suppressed viral load in the brain, and decreased the expression of CNS inflammatory markers. In vitro, minocycline inhibited SIV and HIV replication. These findings suggest that minocycline, a safe, inexpensive, and readily available antibiotic should be investigated as an anti-HIV therapeutic.

Here's another one-- Minocycline delays disease onset and mortality in reovirus encephalitis
Experimental infection of neonatal mice with neurotropic reoviruses is a classic model for studying the pathogenesis of viral encephalitis.

These findings, similar to those reported for neurodegenerative diseases, indicate that minocycline does not prevent development of fatal reovirus encephalitis but delays disease onset and progression, suggesting that minocycline treatment may provide a useful adjunctive therapy in viral CNS infections.

Minai--Ian posted some info on minocycline in the drug regimens thread too you might want to take a look at. It is in clinical trials with copaxone.

Take care

Sharon
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Postby Minai » Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:48 pm

Ian, thanks, I really do try not to worry too much about my daughter and her chances. It's just very difficult having met several people in other forums whose children and/or sisters, brothers and/or parents have all been diagnosed, too. It just doesn't seem to match the stats :|

And I really hope your faith in possible breakthroughs is rewarded. It certainly is apparent to me that you have done much more thorough research for much longer, than I. Thus, more upon which you can base such faith. All that you share, here, is certainly helping with that. Today, I was able to find some time to read more S. Haar's articles from PubMed and can certainly understand (well, maybe not fully, yet) why that researcher told you that it was on the cutting edge.

Yes, maybe...better times for treatments, therapies, preventions, but probably not cures--especially if MS really is caused and/or triggered, virally. :?

Minai (who sometimes has trouble replacing pessimism with objectivism)
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Re: Minocycline an Anti-Viral ???

Postby Minai » Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:22 pm

Hi Sharon,

Thanks for that. will certainly take a look at the minocycline info, as well.

The alternative medical doctor that I see, and whom I persuaded to order all of the lab tests I wanted to have done, called me, this evening. He didn't realize that I had picked up the results from his office, before he even got the chance to read them, himself :twisted:

We discussed what direction I'd like to head. And I shared, a little, of what I have been referred to studying, here. So, until I decide on an anti-viral, or even if I want to start an anti-viral; he wants me to take an herbal concoction in capsules. Starting off slowly with it, but increasing it to aggressive levels. He takes it himself to ward off viruses. And since he seems to be so healthy (he used to be one of Reebok's professional track runners) I told him I'd try it, but only after I looked it up to see what it has in it.

So, I did. And it looks safe enough, so in the meantime, I will try it.

He was also worried about my anemia. He thinks it might be pernicious because the blood cell volume is so high. Well, have always been slightly anemic, and B-12 deficiency was the first thing that I was tested for when ruling out MS. And, then again, by other doctors, but the cell volume didn't worry them.

But, since viruses are anaerobes, maybe this anemia created just the environment the EBV needed to thrive :?:

Didn't think of this, while on the phone with him, but it's definitely the next question I will ask him.

Sorry, didn't intend to carry on so much in this response to you, Sharon :?

Thanks, again!

Minai
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Re: Minocycline an Anti-Viral ???

Postby CureOrBust » Wed Jun 28, 2006 2:16 am

Minai wrote:he wants me to take an herbal concoction in capsules. Starting off slowly with it, but increasing it to aggressive levels. He takes it himself to ward off viruses ... I told him I'd try it, but only after I looked it up to see what it has in it

What is it called? and what IS in it?
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Re: Who are the viral experts, here?

Postby NHE » Wed Jun 28, 2006 3:20 am

Minai wrote:But, since viruses are anaerobes, maybe this anemia created just the environment the EBV needed to thrive

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by the above statement. When I think of viruses, I don't think of them in aerobic vs. anaerobic terms. Virus are essentially molecular parasites. In simplified terms, they are some nucleic acid, either DNA or RNA, surrounded by a protein coat which provides a structure as a nucleic acid container as well as a way to more easily enter a cell. Once inside the cell, the virus releases its nucleic acid which can then incorporate into the host cell's genetic instructions. The viral nucleic acid then overtakes the host cell's protein production machinery, i.e., ribosomes, and instructs the cell to make copies of the viral proteins instead of the host cell's native proteins. The host cell then fills with viral particles which then bursts releasing more viruses to infect more cells. Viruses aren't really alive in the true sense of the word. Thus, I think of them neither as aerobic or anaerobic.

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Re: Minocycline an Anti-Viral ???

Postby Minai » Wed Jun 28, 2006 8:50 am

Hi CureorBust,

I deliberately didn't name the supplement because I don't think I should advertise it, Doctor-recommended, or not :?

Will PM the URL to you.

It probably isn't even something that I would have glanced twice at, had I happened to find it, on my own, either. But, since, this doctor claims it might help and wants to monitor me while on it. I suppose I'll try one bottle of it, but being the skeptic that I am about such things; my expectations are low :|


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Re: Who are the viral experts, here?

Postby Minai » Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:09 am

NHE,

Yes, I do think you're correct. Since viruses can't breathe on their own, they really can't be anaerobes, on their own, either. I earned a Biology Degree, years ago, that I haven't even used until now. Can you tell :P

Often times, I think that the little bit of knowledge that I retained from it, proves dangerous for me :?

As in, am now wondering if anaerobic bacteria host viruses, about bacteriophages, etc. :?:

Minai
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Re: Minocycline an Anti-Viral ???

Postby CureOrBust » Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:33 am

Minai wrote:Will PM the URL to you.

Thanks.

Minai wrote:but being the skeptic that I am about such things; my expectations are low

Personally, i think thik is the best way. If you get an improvement, its a bonus. I will be waiting to see your results, either way.

Although, just once i would love to get some placebo effect...
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Re: Minocycline an Anti-Viral ???

Postby Minai » Thu Jun 29, 2006 1:18 pm

Hi CureorBust,

Well, I sure hope that this doc is not playing the placebo game, at $40 USD/bottle. I suppose he does "deserve" something for writing orders for all of the lab tests that I wanted (knowing that my family doctor and neurologist wouldn't write them all, I'm sure). :wink:

What I really do not like about it, is that there are no quantities listed for the ingredients. I mean, what if someone took it, who was taking some of those ingredients as supplements? I'm not, but if I were, I'd fear overdose.

Will go tomorrow to purchase it, and maybe ask him these things, before (if)I do.

Minai :)
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Estradiol and Bacterial/Viral Pathogens

Postby Shayk » Sat Jul 08, 2006 9:32 am

Hi all

Found this in my files. Estradiol is required for a proper immune response to bacterial and viral pathogens in the female brain
This defective innate immune response was also associated with a widespread viral replication and neurodegeneration....

These data provide evidence that interaction of E(2) with their nuclear ERalpha plays a critical role in the control of cytokines involved in the transfer from the innate to adaptive immunity. mice lacking E(2), ... allows pathogens to hide from immune surveillance and exacerbates neuronal damages during viral encephalitis.

I emphasized the "viral" first because it's a "viral" thread, but estradiol also seemed to protect against LPS endotoxin. I think (but am not certain) that's an endotoxin of concern with cpn.
E(2) replacement therapy totally rescued the ability of the endotoxin to trigger microglial cells and these permissive effects of E(2) are mediated via the estrogen receptor (ER)alpha.


Estradiol is a form of estrogen present in both men and women and it's the ER alpha receptor that seems to be of benefit in EAE trials.

Just another reason to think about balanced hormone levels. :wink:

Sharon
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Re: Estradiol and Bacterial/Viral Pathogens

Postby Minai » Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:28 pm

Thanks for the Estradiol info, Sharon!

Just another reason to think about balanced hormone levels. :wink:


The hormonal factors, and viral protection, are not even something I had even considered studying.

When first diagnosed, however, I was using Estriol (pregnancy hormone, different than Estradiol, I know) cream. Simply because I had learned about remission during pregnancy. During the week before my MP started, when hormone levels drop; symptoms would get worse, so that's when I used it. It did seem to help. And, then, when my cycle started (Estrogen started to pick up); the symptoms would decrease significantly. Yet, I stopped using it, when I went into remission. Since this latest relapse, I thought about starting it again; but didn't. :?

In consideration of possible viral protection, however; maybe I should. But, I'd really like to learn more before I do. Your info is certainly a great starting point! :idea:

Currently, since relapse, I still have the symptoms creeping up, insidiously, without even realizing it; but getting worse on the first day and only better when menstruation ceases. :?

Thanks again!

Minai :)








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