Norwegian Supreme Court: MMR Vaccine caused MS

[Thomas]

A man who developed multiple sclerosis (MS) a few days after he took MMR vaccine at age 12 in elementary school in 2002, for four years fought for compensation from the Patient Injury Board.

http://www.nettavisen.no/nyheter/fikk-m ... 58934.html (In Norwegian - Google Translate works fine.)

[Leonard]

As I understand it, hepatitis vaccination is forbidden is France because it may cause MS.

Clearly, vaccination may do something with the microbiome.

The role of the microbiome is poorly understood in health and disease.

I think we see here only the tip of the iceberg.

[PointsNorth]

I got my first MS symptoms exactly 5 days after the seasonal flu shot. A specialist of mine said this Looked suspicious.

[Leonard]

My first MS symptoms date from much before MS diagnosis, even as far back as 1970.
I say this all with hindsight because I did not know anything about MS until the point I was diagnosed in 2004.

A bad gut (IBS) developed around 1997/98.

In 99, I had vaccinations for Hepatitis and Yellow fever.
I remember particularly the yellow fever vaccination caused heavy gut spasms that I never experienced before. Only after months symptoms disappeared.
This Finnish study suggests a link to YF vaccination. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25223921
These fora are unbeatable.

In 2001, IBS was diagnosed.

In 2004, after a heavy flare up, MS was diagnosed.

[MSbro]

A man who developed multiple sclerosis (MS) a few days after he took MMR vaccine at age 12 in elementary school in 2002, for four years fought for compensation from the Patient Injury Board.

http://www.nettavisen.no/nyheter/fikk-m ... 58934.html (In Norwegian - Google Translate works fine.)

Since nobody has yet discovered the cause of MS, I find it difficult to understand how anyone can say getting a vaccine or taking any other medication can "cause" someone to develop MS. Was the disease already there, did the treatment spark the progression, did neither of these episodes have anything to do with it? So many questions but certainly no answers.

[Thomas]

A man who developed multiple sclerosis (MS) a few days after he took MMR vaccine at age 12 in elementary school in 2002, for four years fought for compensation from the Patient Injury Board.

http://www.nettavisen.no/nyheter/fikk-m ... 58934.html (In Norwegian - Google Translate works fine.)

Since nobody has yet discovered the cause of MS, I find it difficult to understand how anyone can say getting a vaccine or taking any other medication can "cause" someone to develop MS. Was the disease already there, did the treatment spark the progression, did neither of these episodes have anything to do with it? So many questions but certainly no answers.

The supreme court found that in some very rare cases the vaccine could trigger ms, they aren't saying that they have found the underlying cause(s).

[MSbro]

A man who developed multiple sclerosis (MS) a few days after he took MMR vaccine at age 12 in elementary school in 2002, for four years fought for compensation from the Patient Injury Board.

http://www.nettavisen.no/nyheter/fikk-m ... 58934.html (In Norwegian - Google Translate works fine.)

Since nobody has yet discovered the cause of MS, I find it difficult to understand how anyone can say getting a vaccine or taking any other medication can "cause" someone to develop MS. Was the disease already there, did the treatment spark the progression, did neither of these episodes have anything to do with it? So many questions but certainly no answers.

The supreme court found that in som very rare cases the vaccine could trigger ms, they aren't saying that they have found the underlying cause(s).

Well, I guess it's comforting to know that a Supreme Court can determine medical issues! I can only presume that each side brought in their expert medical witnesses and they contradicted each other for the duration of the trial. The judges then had to decide who presented the most compelling information. Which in the case of MS proves nothing but in legal circles awards liability based on the particular case's presentation.

And now the legal system has a precedent case which other lawyers can bring up in their possible litigation. And I guess it doesn't do much for MS patients other than make decisions for their health care more difficult.

[Leonard]

A man who developed multiple sclerosis (MS) a few days after he took MMR vaccine at age 12 in elementary school in 2002, for four years fought for compensation from the Patient Injury Board.

http://www.nettavisen.no/nyheter/fikk-m ... 58934.html (In Norwegian - Google Translate works fine.)

Since nobody has yet discovered the cause of MS, I find it difficult to understand how anyone can say getting a vaccine or taking any other medication can "cause" someone to develop MS. Was the disease already there, did the treatment spark the progression, did neither of these episodes have anything to do with it? So many questions but certainly no answers.

The supreme court found that in som very rare cases the vaccine could trigger ms, they aren't saying that they have found the underlying cause(s).

Well, I guess it's comforting to know that a Supreme Court can determine medical issues! I can only presume that each side brought in their expert medical witnesses and they contradicted each other for the duration of the trial. The judges then had to decide who presented the most compelling information. Which in the case of MS proves nothing but in legal circles awards liability based on the particular case's presentation.

And now the legal system has a precedent case which other lawyers can bring up in their possible litigation. And I guess it doesn't do much for MS patients other than make decisions for their health care more difficult.

You are right, it won't do much for individual MS patients in the short run; on the contrary, as you say it may make their decisions more difficult.

But it might be of help to the whole group of MS patients in the medium to not-too-long term.
It may be one of the many small contributing factors that help to change the view on health and disease.
I refer in particular to the posting of 11 Nov on pg 50 of http://www.thisisms.com/forum/general-d ... 8-735.html
The microbiome makes the difference between health and disease and - as I wrote above - its role is poorly understood.
The consequences of vaccination in combination with many other predisposing factors may be become alarming.
For instance, I have been told that Crohn's disease - another autoimmune disease - is uniquely linked to measles.

The message is difficult and there is no understanding, not even among experts.
Probably also because of the enormous implications for health care, for what they have learned, for their ideas, ...

[MSbro]

You are right, it won't do much for individual MS patients in the short run; on the contrary, as you say it may make their decisions more difficult.

But it might be of help to the whole group of MS patients in the medium to not-too-long term.
It may be one of the many small contributing factors that help to change the view on health and disease.
I refer in particular to the posting of 11 Nov on pg 50 of http://www.thisisms.com/forum/general-d ... 8-735.html
The microbiome makes the difference between health and disease and - as I wrote above - its role is poorly understood.
The consequences of vaccination in combination with many other predisposing factors may be become alarming.
For instance, I have been told that Crohn's disease - another autoimmune disease - is uniquely linked to measles.

The message is difficult and there is no understanding, not even among experts.
Probably also because of the enormous implications for health care, for what they have learned, for their ideas, ...

Yes, there is so much that isn't understood about disease despite decades of very intense research. Vaccines have been a topic of debate over the years. And you are right in that some people who get them and have a combination of other problem factors can end up in a lot of trouble.

Having said that, the vast majority of people who do get vaccines find them very beneficial and I'll continue to get mine when necessary. There will always be people who take medicine and not only become very ill but can die. Fortunately it doesn't happen too often but when it does, people seem to focus on it.

[Animatedcorpse]

Sorry for resurrecting an old thread, but felt like this needed some clarification. Because this made it seem like the Supreme Court said that the Vaccine caused MS, which is not what the ruling was.

In Norway if a person sues for compensation in cases like this the burden of proof does not lie with the person making the claim, it is up to the accused to prove that the vaccine did NOT cause the MS. Which I am sure we can agree is difficult at best, so essentially the Government could not provide an alternative explanation that was more likely.

So in these cases it is Guilty until proven innocent.

[MSbro]

Yes, once the courts get involved in medical cases, anything is possible

[1eye]

It has been thought for centuries that contact with disease will prevent future occurrences. This was originally called inoculation. It was originally done with contact with smallpox. The discovery of a disease which infects horses, cows, and humans, which confers immunity to smallpox, eventually resulted in the disease being completely eradicated.

These vaccinations are said to educate the human immune system, each one separately teaching it how to fight a particular disease.

At the same time, from the beginning there have been detractors. There has also been much ignorance. The British general Amherst used blankets taken from dying smallpox patients in one of the first examples of germ warfare. He used them to, in his words, "inoculate" native people with smallpox. It is pretty clear he did not intend for them to live.

In spite of our much more detailed knowledge of immunization, many people still suspect it when other problems strike. There is great power to confuse and mislead, in coincidence. The fact that two things have coincidence does not prove one causes the other. We can no more say a vaccination caused MS than we can say that MS makes you immune to anything. The two events are not related.