Can Eating Pork Cause MS ?

If it's on your mind and it has to do with multiple sclerosis in any way, post it here.

Can Eating Pork Cause MS ?

Postby THX1138 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:36 am

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/is-pork-bad
SUMMARY:
A causative role of pork in MS is far from a closed case, but the unusually strong epidemiological patterns, biological plausibility and documented experiences make further research imperative.
THX1138
Family Elder
 
Posts: 665
Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 3:00 pm

Advertisement

Re: Can Eating Pork Cause MS ?

Postby rsarrett » Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:34 am

I think pork is one of the worst meats you can consume.
It is also well-known, though not fully acknowledged, that meat-consumption in general can cause varying forms of disease, parasites or even cancers. Pork and deer house and transmit viruses very easily. https://www.cdc.gov/hepatitis/hev/hevfaq.htm#b2 . that go on to later result in cancers. A diet rich in veggies and high fiber I feel has been best for many of my issues.
rsarrett
Newbie
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:18 am

Re: Can Eating Pork Cause MS ?

Postby koneall » Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:13 pm

McDougall makes the point that animal proteins stimulate iso-antibodies that can attack myelin. Hence the veggie diet.

kaypeeoh
koneall
Family Elder
 
Posts: 124
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2017 4:18 pm

Re: Can Eating Pork Cause MS ?

Postby jimmylegs » Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:02 pm

didn't cause mine (as a long term vegan), and the normal cuts of locally raised heritage tams don't seem to have been causing any trouble in the decade since msdx and going omni, either.

i'm not at all worried about risk associated with higher consumption of potted heid. an apples and oranges comparison afaic; just not in the rotation. not before msdx and not after.

unpacking some details from studies included, and adding a couple more for consideration:

Multiple sclerosis, latitude and dietary fat: Is pork the missing link? (1986)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3638477

"The correlation between pork consumption and MS prevalence was highly significant...

"In view of the many sources of error both in the dietary data and in prevalence studies of MS, our correlation should be interpreted with caution. However, the correlation between pork and MS prevalence is impressive enough and if it is valid, would imply that pork consumption is somehow related to the risk of developing MS . Alternatively, the correlation could imply a relationship between MS and an unknown environmental or dietary factor associated conditions of pork intake...

"How pork might increase the risk of developing MS is unknown. Alter, et al., have reviewed the mechanisms by which animal fat intake may be related to MS (5). One of these mechanisms is that a relative deficiency of essential fatty acids exists; this may be produced by a high intake of saturated fat (13). There is, however, no difference between the fat content of beef and pork (14). One major difference is the presence of greater amounts of linoleic acid in pork compared to beef (14). This difference would, however, make pork less likely than beef to increase risk for developing MS since recent studies have shown that linoleic acid reduces the severity and duration of relapses in MS (15). Another possibility is that the position of double bonds in the fatty acid chains are different in pork and beef fat (14). Whether this could affect the composition of myelin sheath lipid and make the individual more susceptible to develop MS is unknown."

i don't see any clear way to check the info presented in figure 1.

upon examination of referenced studies, no pork info is given in any of:

Norman JE, Kurtzke JF, Beebe CW. Epidemiology of multiple sclerosis in US veterans. J. Chronic Dis. 36: 551, 1983.
Kurland LT, Reed D. Geographic and climatic aspects of multiple sclerosis. Am. J. Public Health 54: 588, 1964.
Acheson ED, Bochrach CA, Wright FM. Some comments on the distribution of MS to latitude, solar radiation and other variables. Acta. Psychiat. Meurol.
Second. 35: 132, 1960.
Agranoff BW, Goldberg D. Diet and the geographic distribution of multiple sclerosis. J,ancet 2: 1061, 1974.
Alter M, Yamoor M, Harshe M. Multiple sclerosis and nutrition. Arch. Neurol. 31: 267, 1974.
Armstrong B, Doll R. Environmental factors and cancer incidence and mortality in different countries with special reference to dietary practices. Int. J. Cancer 15: 617, 1975.
Gray GE, Pike MC, Henderson BE. Breast cancer incidence and mortality rates in different countries in relation to known risk factors and dietary practices. Br. J. Cancer 39:1_, 1979.
Kurtzke JF. A reassessment of the distribution of multiple sclerosis. Acta Neurol. Stand. 51:110, 1975.
Kurtzke JF. Geographic distribution of multiple sclerosis. an update with special reference to Europe and the Mediterranean region. Acta Neurol. Stand. 62:65, 1980.
Swank RL. Multiple sclerosis: twenty years on a low fat diet. Arch. Neurol. 23:460, 1970.
still no pork info, but does provide info on study n in the abstract, specifically that the combined total patients and controls for the three studies is 87 and 85 respectively:
Dworkin RH, Bates D, Millar JHD, Patry DW. Linoleic acid and multiple sclerosis - a reanalysis of three double blind trials. Neurology 34: 1984.
rat study
Holman RT. The ratio of trienoic: tetranoic acids in tissue lipids as a measure of essential fatty acid requirement. J. Nutr. 70: 405, 19GO.

for this item, no useful descriptive info found online. no indication that there is any info on consumption or geographic distribution
Considine DM. Food and Food Products Encyclopedia. Von Nostrand Reinhold Co. New York, N.Y. 1982.

can't seem to check this yearbook out online:
Food and Agricultural Organization of the United Nations. Production Yearbook. FAO, Rome, 1975-1983.

a bunch of these are available, all of which refer to the yearbook:
The state of food and agriculture http://www.fao.org/docrep/017/ap656e/ap656e.pdf

i'm not sure what a production yearbook says about consumption exactly. in the one seemingly related doc i've found so far, of 19 references to pigmeat, 3 pieces o quantitative data describe volume of exports globally, and western europe's share of import vs export volume. not regionally comprehensive, in this one at least.

this next item can't be readily reviewed. available online docs refer to baby food, fruits/juices and fats/oils

Watt BK, Merrill AL. Computation of foods. Agriculture Handbook, No. 8. U.S. Dept. of Agriculture, Consumer and Food Economics Institute, Washington,
D.C., 1975.

overall, i'm not convinced by this article. published in med hypotheses.
does anyone know if any other author or authors have been able to replicate this study's approach and its findings?

on to the next thing:


Nutritional factors in the aetiology of multiple sclerosis: a case-control study in Montreal, Canada (1998)
https://academic.oup.com/ije/article/27/5/845/652592

"The relation between nutritional factors and MS was studied among 197 incident cases and 202 frequency matched controls in metropolitan Montreal during 1992-1995...

"With respect to specific foods (as opposed to nutrients), a higher intake of fruit juices was inversely associated with risk (OR = 0.82; 95% CI: 0.74-0.92)."

"A protective effect was also observed with cereal/breads intake for all cases combined (OR = 0.62; 95% CI: 0.40-0.97) and for fish among women only"

"pork/hot dogs (OR = 1.24; 95% CI: 1.02-1.51) and sweets/candy (OR = 1.29; 95% CI: 1.07-1.55) were positively associated with risk."

"Table 4 depicts the risk of MS per 100-g unit intakes of various foods or food groups. The meat group, consisting of pork, ham, luncheon meat, hot dogs, sausages or other processed meats, augmented risk in all subjects (OR = 1.24; 95% CI: 1.02-1.52)."

so smallish study, meat group including pork (with an emphasis on processed products) augments risk. i'm not quite sure how to interpret risk "per 100g unit"

next, a huge study n, meat group includes pork, relative risk varies across intake quintiles
:

Dietary Fat in Relation to Risk of Multiple Sclerosis among Two Large Cohorts of Women (2000)
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/aea9/0 ... 0c4287.pdf

For the analyses presented here, women were excluded from the 1980 baseline population if they completed a 1980 dietary questionnaire with an implausible total energy intake (i.e., <500 or >3,500 kcal/day) or if they left more than 10 food items blank. These exclusions left a total of 92,422 women for the analyses.

The associations between the food groups high in fat and the risk of MS are presented in table 4. Intakes of dairy products, fish or other seafood, red meats, poultry, and processed meats were also not significantly associated with the risk of MS.

from table 4
relative risk by intake quintile for processed meats (incl bacon)
...........................RR.....95% CI........RR.....95% CI........RR.....95% CI.........RR.....95% CI........RR.....95% CI......p for trend
Pooled NHS I/II.....1.0......................1.3.....(0.8,2.1)......1.2.....(0.8, 2.0) .....1.3....(0.8, 2.1).....1.0....(0.6, 1.7) 0.68

another smallish study, finds high weekly meat intake but not specifically high weekly pork intake increaes risk of ms:

Risk factors of multiple sclerosis: a case-control study (2003)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14658040

"The variables associated with a significant risk of MS included: contact with animals in general and with pet birds and fowls in particular; consumption of meat five or
more time per week; vaccination against measles, rubella, mumps and varicella; right-handedness; family history of MS, autoimmune disease, thyroiditis, rheumatic disorders, diabetes mellitus and migraine; and comorbidity with autoimmune diseases and migraine...

"Table 1 Presence of familial and environmental risk factors associated with multiple sclerosis (MS) in 140 cases and 131 controls. Odds ratios (OR) and 95% confidence intervals (CI) are presented
Variable.............................................Cases (n=140)..........Controls (n=131).............OR 95%................CI
Consumption of meat (≥5 times/week)........22............................9..............................2.6..................1.1–5.8
Consumption of pork (≥5 times/week).........12............................8..............................1.5..................0.6–3.8"

5+ times per week tho! more like once, here.

in review:
1. could pork connect some dots? open question.
2. processed meat including pork increases ms risk (smallish n)
3. processed meat including pork does not increase ms risk (huge n)
4. 5+ servings per week meat consumption but not 5+ spw pork consumption increases ms risk (smallish n)

my conclusion: pork stays in the rotation at current levels, ie most often one serving per week, that being 2 pcs bacon with one breakfast on the weekend (back bacon btw, 2.2 g sat fat; 11% of RDA - compare regular bacon sat fat 14g).
hot dogs, NEVER NEVER NEVER.
sometimes pork makes its way into a dinner (last time, tenderloin - 1.2 g sat fat). or a bone will provide stock for split pea soup (that last is on my list of things to do for this eve)
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!
User avatar
jimmylegs
Volunteer Moderator
 
Posts: 11230
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:00 pm

Re: Can Eating Pork Cause MS ?

Postby vesta » Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:08 am

THX1138 wrote:https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/is-pork-bad
SUMMARY:
A causative role of pork in MS is far from a closed case, but the unusually strong epidemiological patterns, biological plausibility and documented experiences make further research imperative.


Greetings:

My Kinesiologist/Nutritionist forbade Pork outright for me, probably because of the saturated fat. Any meat processed with Nitrates/Nitrites aren't good for anybody (this includes bacon, ham, salami etc which are a major part of N European diets e.g. Germany.) So the MS question becomes irrelevant.

Regards, Vesta
vesta
Family Elder
 
Posts: 561
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:10 am
Location: Paris, France

Re: Can Eating Pork Cause MS ?

Postby ElliotB » Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:29 am

Can Eating Pork Cause MS? I guess anything is possible...

Most meats, including pork, beef, buffalo, chicken, turkey, and [wild caught] seafood, and even eggs are available with a 1:1 ratio or close to 1:1 ratio of omega 3 to omega 6 fats which is what is required/necessary for good health - most of these items are not readily available at your local supermarket. Supermarket meats typically have an unhealth ratio of 20:1 omega 6 to omega 3 which is likely not healthy.

Modern high omega 3 pork is healthy but again, you won't find it at your local supermarket. And the pork and other meats typically found at your local supermarket as well as farm raised fish and seafood products should be avoided if you consume them

Think plant based food are safe? Aside from a multitude of pesticide issues and minimal nutrition in them (there are numerous reasons for this), most commonly consumed fruits and vegetables contain LECTINS which actually can cause many serious health issues AND MS like symptoms including tiredness (and a host of digestive and other issues).

The bottom line is that fruits and vegetables are not required for good health for human beings and for the most part, modern fruits and vegetables should be avoided. But ultimately it depends who you ask!
ElliotB
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1431
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:08 pm

Re: Can Eating Pork Cause MS ?

Postby ElliotB » Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:27 am

ElliotB
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1431
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:08 pm

Re: Can Eating Pork Cause MS ?

Postby David1949 » Sat Nov 25, 2017 8:06 pm

I'm not sure what you can conclude from this but here is some info I dug up.
These are rates of MS in Israel for various groups:
Group, MS prevalence, Eat pork?
Israeli-born Jewish inhabitants , 61.6, no,
Immigrant Jews from Europe/America 53.7 no
Immigrant Jews from from North Africa/Asia 27.9 no
Israeli-born Christian 35.3 maybe
Moslem Arabs 14.7 no
Druze 10.9 ?
Bedouins 17.3 ?
Source- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16606919
Notes:
1) Jews and Moslems do not eat pork for religious reasons,.
2) Christians may eat pork but the extent to which they do in Israel is unknown
3) prevalence is cases per 100,000 population

By comparison the rate for the south and west of the US is about 110.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4799713/figure/F3/
David1949
Family Elder
 
Posts: 866
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:00 pm

Re: Can Eating Pork Cause MS ?

Postby jimmylegs » Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:37 pm

ultimately ms is multifactorial and unsurprisingly, it would appear that moderation is the key.
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!
User avatar
jimmylegs
Volunteer Moderator
 
Posts: 11230
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:00 pm

Re: Can Eating Pork Cause MS ?

Postby THX1138 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:35 pm

jimmylegs wrote:ultimately ms is multifactorial and unsurprisingly, it would appear that moderation is the key.


Most everything is multifactorial. What are the BIG players?
I'm not trying to be disagreeable here, but when I hear words like "moderation", I think, "So we're going to get over a serious, extreme, terrible disease with moderation.
Some sort of extremism must be necessary, not just moderation.
THX1138
Family Elder
 
Posts: 665
Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 3:00 pm

Re: Can Eating Pork Cause MS ?

Postby jimmylegs » Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:00 pm

pork related extremism is outside my experience except as an ideological and uneducated vegan, one of which i certainly was in the decades preceding my dx.

in the decade plus since, the move from nutritionally incomplete and extremist veganism to thoroughly moderate omni (pork and all), certainly represents a much needed and extreme change to prior status quo.
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!
User avatar
jimmylegs
Volunteer Moderator
 
Posts: 11230
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:00 pm

Re: Can Eating Pork Cause MS ?

Postby koneall » Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:14 pm

Starting with the premise that MS is caused by auto-antibodies that cross the BBB and damage myelin, a study in Iran showed that meat and pork eaters had the highest levels of these auto-antibodies. Vegetarians had the lowest number. Dairy eaters were in the middle. There are probably other factors such as longitude/latitude.
koneall
Family Elder
 
Posts: 124
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2017 4:18 pm

Re: Can Eating Pork Cause MS ?

Postby ElliotB » Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:35 am

Koneall, if your premise and theory is correct, do you have an explanation as to why vegans and vegetarians still get MS?
ElliotB
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1431
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:08 pm

Re: Can Eating Pork Cause MS ?

Postby jimmylegs » Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:40 am

i certainly do.

re autoantibodies, the study link might be useful ....

if shared, i imagine there would potentially be some useful comparisons to be made with this and similar research:

Natural IgG Autoantibodies Are Abundant and Ubiquitous in Human Sera, and Their Number Is Influenced By Age, Gender, and Disease (2013)
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/articl ... ne.0060726
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!
User avatar
jimmylegs
Volunteer Moderator
 
Posts: 11230
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:00 pm

Re: Can Eating Pork Cause MS ?

Postby koneall » Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:14 am

ElliotB wrote:Koneall, if your premise and theory is correct, do you have an explanation as to why vegans and vegetarians still get MS?


I'd say nothing about MS is 100%. McDougall says eat starch. It stimulates low levels of insulin. Exactly as Atkins and other high meat diets propose. McDougall and Swank suggest high-fat diet is the worst for causing MS. And vegan is the best for preventing MS. They've got 50+ years of anecdotal evidence. Modern fruits are much higher in sugar than ancestral fruits were. Corn is the worst. Although if eaten whole the fiber limits sugar absorption. Just my guess. I don't like the vegan diet. For years I enjoyed the Atkins Diet for weight control. For me it's much harder to keep my weight down on a vegan diet. One of McDougall's videos shows all the high meat proponents like Atkins and all the vegan proponents like McDougall. All the high meat guys are fat. All the vegans like McDougall are slender.

I'm not hanging my hat on McDougall. I also self-medicate with ozone. There are videos of guys doing that to prevent MS relapses. Ozone increases oxygen transfer within the red blood cells. Hemoglobin can hold more oxygen and transfers to tissues more readily. It does that by enhancing the Krebs cycle. Ozone proponents say most all disease and cancer is the result of lower oxygen levels in tissue.

Looking at it historically, early man was a herbivore and evolved into an omnivore. He ate mainly veggies and some lean meat. There is no MS in any animal species except lab mice.

kevin
koneall
Family Elder
 
Posts: 124
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2017 4:18 pm

Next

Return to General Discussion

 


  • Related topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users


Contact us | Terms of Service