Multiple sclerosis symptoms improved with fruit and veg

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Multiple sclerosis symptoms improved with fruit and veg

Postby Thomas » Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:20 pm

Eating a healthful diet comprising fruits, vegetables, and whole grains may be linked with reduced disability and fewer multiple sclerosis symptoms among people with the condition, according to a new study published in Neurology.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/320302.php
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Re: Multiple sclerosis symptoms improved with fruit and veg

Postby jimmylegs » Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:41 pm

clarification

the word comprising appears zero (0) times in the abstract and full text.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/comprise

"In this large survey of diet quality and MS symptoms, diets higher overall in fruits, vegetables, legumes, and whole grains and lower in added sugars from sweets and sugar-sweetened beverages and red meat were associated with lower disability levels. Higher intakes of whole grains and dairy products were associated with lower disability."

digging in (not initially, but pun now intended) on the relative content question:

study subjects' red/processed meat (non-red meats, fish etc not assessed) intake quintiles:

Red and processed meats, servings/d, mean (SD)
Q1 0.79 (0.48) ie 68% consume between 2 and 9 servings per week
Q2 0.65 (0.48)
Q3 0.55 (0.52)
Q4 0.40 (0.39)
Q5 0.21 (0.25) ie average 1.5 servings per week, going as high in extreme cases as 7 servings per week?! on the other side of the curve, i'm not quite sure how to interpret negative servings per day

personally i'm on a rotation of legume/grain combo, fish, poultry, pork sausage and red meat serving days, and often serving size is on the small side. so possibly below the Q5 mean in this study. still feels like loads compared to the vegan era! later, may be interesting to see how i'm doing with some other aspects. have a feeling i'm set for whole grains and probably on the low side re dairy. we shall see.

anyhoo, really enjoyed my morsels of steak last nite :D alongside the pressure-cooked mixed white and sweet potato, sauteed mushrooms, stir-fried onions and peppers and steamed broccoli.

noms!
odd sx? no dx? check w/ dietitian
DRI=MINIMUM eg bit.ly/1vgQclQ
99% don't meet these. meds/lifestyle can affect levels
status can be low in ms & other cond'ns
'but my results are normal'. typical panels don't test all
deficits occur in 'normal' range
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Re: Multiple sclerosis symptoms improved with fruit and veg

Postby ElliotB » Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:32 pm

As is often the case, there is ample evidence that contradicts these claims, and indicates that fruits, vegetables and grains are likely not as healthy as most would think they are.

Most modern fruits are basically 'sugar' and have little nutrition.

Most modern vegetables have little nutrition.

Most grains are loaded with gluten and also have little nutrition.



And all three groups have lectin issues. Additionally, all three food groups are loaded with unhealthy pesticides. You NEVER ever read/hear about these serious issues.

Farmers/food producers concentrate on quantity, not quality.


And, as always, when red meat is mentioned, there is no mention of grass fed meats which nutritionally are extremely healthy and aside from having the same name and overall look of regular meat, is totally different. The same problem exists with fish/seafood. Farm raised fish and seafood are totally different nutritionally compared to their wild caught counterparts.


Per the article referenced, "Proponents of the Swank diet believe that it can reduce the frequency of flare-ups and lessen the severity of symptoms related to the disease." Yes, they believe in it but by the numbers, those who follow the Swank diet do not really do any better than the general population of those with MS who do nothing special with regard to diet. Anyone who follows any one of the popular MS diets believes wholeheartedly in the diet they are following - all diets seem to work well for some/many but not all.

Also in the article, "The author of the new study, Kathryn C. Fitzgerald — who works in the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine in Baltimore, MD — acknowledges that there is a lack of evidence on the potential influence that diet may have on MS symptoms."

There is no mention of the Wahls diet/protocol which seems reasonably effective for those with MS and is basically the opposite diet to Swank's Diet.



In any case, I enjoyed my burger for dinner and bacon and eggs earlier today for breakfast.
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Re: Multiple sclerosis symptoms improved with fruit and veg

Postby jimmylegs » Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:29 pm

as with poultry and fish, omega FA content or lack thereof is outside the scope of the cited analysis. you could always fill in with a complementary research item detailing the omega side of things...
odd sx? no dx? check w/ dietitian
DRI=MINIMUM eg bit.ly/1vgQclQ
99% don't meet these. meds/lifestyle can affect levels
status can be low in ms & other cond'ns
'but my results are normal'. typical panels don't test all
deficits occur in 'normal' range
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Re: Multiple sclerosis symptoms improved with fruit and veg

Postby NHE » Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:32 am

ElliotB wrote:As is often the case, there is ample evidence that contradicts these claims, and indicates that fruits, vegetables and grains are likely not as healthy as most would think they are.

Most modern fruits are basically 'sugar' and have little nutrition.

Most modern vegetables have little nutrition.


It's all in what you choose to eat, e.g., plain white potato or purple peruvians. In case you missed it, you may be interested in the following post...

Breeding the Nutrition Out of Our Food
diet-f9/topic22352.html#p210198

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013 ... ref=sunday

Also see Dr. Joel Fuhrman's list of foods ranked by their micronutrient density.

diet-f9/topic17276-90.html#p174562
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Re: Multiple sclerosis symptoms improved with fruit and veg

Postby ElliotB » Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:39 am

Here is one:

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritions ... ga-3-fats/


And another:

http://www.umm.edu/health/medical/altme ... atty-acids



Only got over 1,000,000 Google results when I typed in "Omega 3 Fatty Acids" - again, there is ample evidence as to the importance of essential fatty acids which Omega 3 is one of.



Here are a couple of interesting comments in the linked articles:

"Omega-3 fatty acids are considered essential fatty acids. They are necessary for human health, but the body can't make them"

"Research shows that omega-3 fatty acids reduce inflammation and may help lower risk of chronic diseases"

"It is important to have the proper ratio of omega-3 and omega-6 (another essential fatty acid) in the diet. Omega-3 fatty acids help reduce inflammation, and most omega-6 fatty acids tend to promote inflammation. The typical American diet contains 14 to 25 times more omega-6 fatty acids than omega-3 fatty acids"


"What makes omega-3 fats special? They are an integral part of cell membranes throughout the body and affect the function of the cell receptors in these membranes. They provide the starting point for making hormones that regulate blood clotting, contraction and relaxation of artery walls, and inflammation. They also bind to receptors in cells that regulate genetic function."


My research indicates that in order for fatty foods to be truly nutritious for humans, the proper ratio of Omega 3 to Omega 6 fatty acids in food need to be 1:1 or very, very close to 1:1 (under 1:2). Grass fed meats and wild caught fish and seafood have this ratio naturally. High Omega 3 chicken, turkey, duck, and chicken eggs that are fed special diets meet this nutritional requirement and are available. Of course, these high good fat foods are typically not available in your local supermarket. And they are significantly more expensive than their grain fed counterparts. Most grain fed meats and farm raised fish/seafood have a ratio of 1:20 and higher and in some cases much higher.


And lectins?

Lectins are know to cause inflammation, Autoimmune diseases, leaky gut, vitamin deficiencies, depression, brain fog, headaches, tiredness and a host of other issues. Do these symptoms sound familiar? Amazing coincidence!

IMHO, anyone with MS needs to become well educated on lectins and follow a diet that minimizes them.
Last edited by ElliotB on Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:18 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Multiple sclerosis symptoms improved with fruit and veg

Postby jimmylegs » Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:20 am

hmm i'd thought we were going to tease out the nuances re omegas in red meat. and grass fed red meat in particular.

thought perhaps you'd have drawn on one of the 400 google scholar results on search terms
"omega 3 fatty acids" "grass-fed" "grain-fed" "red meat"
or the 811 results for search terms
"omega 3 fatty acids" "grass-fed" "grain-fed" beef

but, others can always track those down if they feel the need.

also, if we do unpack fish although it was not included in OP's study's analysis, 833 google scholar results may be perused for info related to search terms:
"omega 3 fatty acids" "wild caught" "farmed" salmon
odd sx? no dx? check w/ dietitian
DRI=MINIMUM eg bit.ly/1vgQclQ
99% don't meet these. meds/lifestyle can affect levels
status can be low in ms & other cond'ns
'but my results are normal'. typical panels don't test all
deficits occur in 'normal' range
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Re: Multiple sclerosis symptoms improved with fruit and veg

Postby koneall » Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:38 pm

I was diagnosed with MS four months ago. I tried the Wahl diet but couldn't keep up with it. Then I read McDougall's theory that animal proteins turn into auto-antibodies that can attack nerve tissues. I found an abstract out of Iran. Someone measured all the auto-antibodies and found Veggie diets had the lowest number of antibodies. Cheese was just as low. Beef or pork was where the auto-antibodies were the highest. I eat probably a 90% veggie diet and augment with fish or turkey.

kaypeeoh
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Re: Multiple sclerosis symptoms improved with fruit and veg

Postby ElliotB » Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:46 pm

Perhaps you might want to read "The Plant Paradox: The Hidden Dangers in "Healthy" Foods That Cause Disease and Weight Gain" by Dr. Gandry. His research may give you a different perspective.

FWIW -Any research you are reading regarding meats is likely not research on grass fed meats which is totally different in just about every way nutritionally as compared to regular 'grain' fed meats. McDougall's theory is just that, a theory, as are many of the ideas he presents with regard to diet - he does not seem to substantiate the majority of his claims.
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Re: Multiple sclerosis symptoms improved with fruit and veg

Postby jimmylegs » Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:26 pm

odd sx? no dx? check w/ dietitian
DRI=MINIMUM eg bit.ly/1vgQclQ
99% don't meet these. meds/lifestyle can affect levels
status can be low in ms & other cond'ns
'but my results are normal'. typical panels don't test all
deficits occur in 'normal' range
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Re: Multiple sclerosis symptoms improved with fruit and veg

Postby ElliotB » Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:59 am

jimmylegs, thanks for the link. That article is from a school offering/promoting a course on Plant-Based Nutrition - would you expect anything else...

Good thing for the Goggle - there are many, many, many independent links not affiliated in any way with Dr. Gandry but they all come to the same conclusion as him.

But in fairness, there are many thousands of articles taking the opposite view as well and certainly the 'mainstream' thinking that meat is bad and everything else is good has been stated so many times for so long...

Who is right? Who knows for sure? There is really no way of knowing at this time - time to get out the little white mice!
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Re: Multiple sclerosis symptoms improved with fruit and veg

Postby cervocuit » Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:55 am

What about the gut microbes?

High fruits and vegs diet means high in fibers, that means high in prebiotics, that means good for the gut (imo much more than omega 3)

From an evolutionary perspective, the real paleo diet is mostly plant based. And animals that hunter gatherers was hunting was wild animals which are all very lean. Nowadays, grass fed or grain fed, animals raised by farmers are basically fat factories since they doesn’t have to run from predators.
Have you ever eaten wild salmon or wild pork ? They have strong flavors but doesn’t taste that good since you can hardly taste any fat.
"Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution"
(Theodosius Dobzhansky)
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Re: Multiple sclerosis symptoms improved with fruit and veg

Postby jimmylegs » Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:27 am

yes, it is a debate after all. it would be a weird one if there weren't sides.

personally, while remaining firmly on the fence, i initially prefer the one that presents valid research references - but that's just me.
odd sx? no dx? check w/ dietitian
DRI=MINIMUM eg bit.ly/1vgQclQ
99% don't meet these. meds/lifestyle can affect levels
status can be low in ms & other cond'ns
'but my results are normal'. typical panels don't test all
deficits occur in 'normal' range
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Re: Multiple sclerosis symptoms improved with fruit and veg

Postby ElliotB » Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:51 am

"it is a debate after all"

Just to continue the debate:

Forgetting the nutritional qualities or lack thereof, why would it make any sense for anyone sick with MS, some other illness or none at all, to consume small or large quantities of a food that is laced with pesticides inside and out and expect beneficial results to their health?

From a Google search:

"Pesticides are designed for one purpose - to kill. They are designed to kill insects (insecticides), to kill rodents (rodenticides), to kill nemotodes (nematocides), to kill plants (herbicides), and to kill fungus (fungicides). However, pesticides are also hazardous to human health."



Fat?

"grass fed or grain fed, animals raised by farmers are basically fat factories"

First off, not all fats are created equal, and as a general rule fats from grass fed animals and wild caught fish and seafood are healthy and fats from grain fed animals and farm raised fish/seafood (which are fed grains and live in unsanitary conditions) are not.

While the common notion is that fat is bad for you, nothing could be further from the truth when it comes to GOOD fat - (neither humans nor animals should be consuming grains).

AND few are aware that the nutrition in meat is within the fat, NOT the lean part of the muscle.

Have you ever eaten wild salmon or wild pork ? They have strong flavors but doesn’t taste that good since you can hardly taste any fat.

The flavor in meat comes from the fat. Some salmon have strong flavors and some do not, it depends on the type, but in general, you do not see the fat in fish like you do with animal meats but it is there none the less. AND good for you (wild caught only)!



Not that I expect anyone to be convinced that a diet rich in grass fed meats/wild caught seafood is good for you but:

"Meat has a bad reputation. Most people think of meat, especially red meat, as dangerously unhealthy. However, meat has unique properties that make it more nutritious, easier to digest, and less likely to irritate your body than vegetables."

IMHO, slick anti-meat marketing by food producers has been very effective!

Here is a link to the full article:

http://www.diagnosisdiet.com/food/meats/


One more interesting fact, Eskimos (real Eskimos) evolved/live on a diet high in fat (blubber) and have zero incidence of MS. Oh, and they consume(d) little if any fruits and vegetables.

Again, from Google (as I don't know any Eskimos personally to ask) What kind of food do Eskimos eat?:

Hunted animals, including birds, caribou, seals, walrus, polar bears, whales, and fish provided all the nutrition for the Eskimos for at least 10 months of the year. And in the summer season people gathered a few plant foods such as berries, grasses, tubers, roots, stems, and seaweeds.
Last edited by ElliotB on Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Multiple sclerosis symptoms improved with fruit and veg

Postby jimmylegs » Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:42 am

hopefully it's accurately referenced. for myself, i generally prefer straight research papers, as you may have noticed.

like this one

Dietary selenium's protective effects against methylmercury toxicity (2010)
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 3X10002490

"Abstract
Dietary selenium (Se) status is inversely related to vulnerability to methylmercury (MeHg) toxicity. Mercury exposures that are uniformly neurotoxic and lethal among animals fed low dietary Se are far less serious among those with normal Se intakes and are without observable consequences in those fed Se-enriched diets. Although these effects have been known since 1967, they have only lately become well understood. Recent studies have shown that Se-enriched diets not only prevent MeHg toxicity, but can also rapidly reverse some of its most severe symptoms. It is now understood that MeHg is a highly specific, irreversible inhibitor of Se-dependent enzymes (selenoenzymes). Selenoenzymes are required to prevent and reverse oxidative damage throughout the body, particularly in the brain and neuroendocrine tissues. Inhibition of selenoenzyme activities in these vulnerable tissues appears to be the proximal cause of the pathological effects known to accompany MeHg toxicity. Because Hg's binding affinities for Se are up to a million times higher than for sulfur, its second-best binding partner, MeHg inexorably sequesters Se, directly impairing selenoenzyme activities and their synthesis. This may explain why studies of maternal populations exposed to foods that contain Hg in molar excess of Se, such as shark or pilot whale meats, have found adverse child outcomes, but studies of populations exposed to MeHg by eating Se-rich ocean fish observe improved child IQs instead of harm. However, since the Se contents of freshwater fish are dependent on local soil Se status, fish with high MeHg from regions with poor Se availability may be cause for concern. Further studies of these relationships are needed to assist regulatory agencies in protecting and improving child health."

guess i'm just gonna have to suck it up and start liking brazil nuts :S
odd sx? no dx? check w/ dietitian
DRI=MINIMUM eg bit.ly/1vgQclQ
99% don't meet these. meds/lifestyle can affect levels
status can be low in ms & other cond'ns
'but my results are normal'. typical panels don't test all
deficits occur in 'normal' range
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