blood test results

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blood test results

Postby zen2010 » Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:30 am

Hello,

I just received my blood test results.
Can you pls provide your feedback ? (are the results ok for a MSer)

-Calcium: 2.41mmol/L

-Magnesium: 0.81 mmol/L

-25-OH D3 Vit: 82.2 nmol/L

-B12 Vit: 588 pmol/L

-Zinc: In process (I will get the result on Thursday)

Thank you
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Re: blood test results

Postby jimmylegs » Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:37 am

hi

short answer re eval, serum calcium appears to be in line and mag is too low. serum zn will be worth seeing when it comes in. will you be getting a d3 level?

re optimizing. if we consider high normal mag 1.1 a decent healthy target for ms patients, then what should the serum calcium level be?

no time to dig in fully on the academic contribution. frustrating when studies compare sick subjects to other sick 'controls'.

Serum calcium and survival in a large health screening program
https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/81/6/2149/2875476

so if best range is 2.31-2.45 mmol/L and hypercalcemia is > 2.5 mmol/L, then for starting point could consider halfway between 2.31 and 2.45 an approx sweet spot
so let's say maybe 2.38 mmol/L looks nice for serum cal.

so that looks like a decent healthy serum cal mag ratio would be 2.38 mmol.L / 1.1 mmol/L = 2.2

your ratio is currently 3.0. if you just push magnesium up, you'd expect calcium to drop, bringing the ratio closer to 2.2 (assuming that's reasonable for the time being) - just need to monitor.

i have never gone over my files to look for the impacts on my serum calcium numbers, after mag depletion followed by repletion. when i have more time, will have to have a look.
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Re: blood test results

Postby zen2010 » Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:29 pm

Thks for your feedback

jimmylegs wrote:mag is too low

I will increase Mag from 400 to 500 Mg per day


will you be getting a d3 level?

The lab told me the correct range was 75-150 nmol/L

so that looks like a decent healthy serum cal mag ratio would be 2.38 mmol.L / 1.1 mmol/L = 2.2
your ratio is currently 3.0. if you just push magnesium up, you'd expect calcium to drop, bringing the ratio closer to 2.2 (assuming that's reasonable for the time being) - just need to monitor.

Next blood test will be performed in July
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Re: blood test results

Postby jimmylegs » Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:51 pm

re mag, be sure to use divided doses ok. eg 200 mg with d3, and 100 mg at other times. (before food)

re d3, i know the mainstream reference range (eg 75 lower cutoff refers to bone health not immune sys requirements, at the top end, 150 would be more difficult to achieve while cofactors are still low)

i'm curious about any updates to your own serum d3 status.

will look forward to progress updates in july :)
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Re: blood test results

Postby zen2010 » Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:25 am

Hello

jimmylegs wrote:re mag, be sure to use divided doses ok. eg 200 mg with d3, and 100 mg at other times. (before food)

Done

jimmylegs wrote:serum zn will be worth seeing when it comes in


Zn: 829µg/L (Range given by the lab is 551-925)

Thks
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Re: blood test results

Postby jimmylegs » Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:17 pm

good to hear re mag.

re zinc, get ready for the tirade!!:

ugh ug/L why :S and, 551-925. ugh again lab ranges SUCK. grrrrrrrr.

55.1 ug/dL x 0.153 = 8.43 umol/L.
92.5 ug/dL x 0.153 = 14.2 umol/L.
terrible. your lab's entire range appears to be informed by results from patients only. no healthies.
i've seen reference ranges like that before. from an infectious disease clinic. give me a break :S

for comparison my local hospital's range for serum zinc is 11.5-18.5 umol/L.
so it flags deficiency at anything below 11.5 umol/L.
when i first tested zinc, my level was 8.6 umol/L. deficient. follow up action required, doc prescribes zinc, jimmylegs gets busy. huge improvements after zinc repletion.
meanwhile if i had had my test done at your lab, 8.6 umol/L would be fine. no zinc issue. nothing for doc to say. total BS!!!!

in your case, using the 11.5 - 18.5 to evaluate your result (as a better range, if not ideal):
82.9 ug/dL also low normal. 12.7 umol/L - that is pretty consistent w average se zn levels seen in ms patients. maybe even on the low side for ms.

optimal serum zinc in healthies is in the 18.0-18.5 umol/L neighbourhood. ie high normal.
that means your approx target to match healthy status would be ~1200 ug/L

fyi, i always test serum nutrients fasting, in the morning. if you do the same, be aware that serum zinc is at its highest for the day at that time and reflects your *best case scenario*. consider your latest result with that in mind.

remind me: do you currently use a zinc supplement and if so, is it balanced with copper?
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Re: blood test results

Postby jimmylegs » Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:21 pm

i'm an idiot somehow i did not see your d3 level above. sorry.

it's also on the low side. work on the magnesium first. and the zinc. the d3 should come up on its own as cofactor status improves. i would not advise increasing daily d3 intake until mag and zinc levels are both much higher.
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Re: blood test results

Postby zen2010 » Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:18 am

Roger that!

jimmylegs wrote:remind me: do you currently use a zinc supplement and if so, is it balanced with copper?


On a daily basis:
I get zinc (10 mg citrate) from multivit.
Also, I get Picolinate 22 mg from supplement (one cap from Solgar - copper balancing is not mentionned on the bottle)


Summary from your feedback:
-I'll keep taking UI3000 of D3vit (far from Mg)
I used to take UI4000 but I decreased to UI3000 as I'am afraid of going over 150nmol/L

-No change regarding Calcium (100 mg from multivit)

-Mg to be increased from 400 to 500 mg (already done)

-Zinc to be increased from 32mg (10 citrate+22 picolinate) to 54 mg (10 citrate + 22*2 picolinate)

I'll do that and get the next blood test results in July.

Cheers
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Re: blood test results

Postby jimmylegs » Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:23 am

hi again :) in reply to your summary notes:

re d3. 3000iU / day sounds good.

re magnesium timing. always take some *with* the d3.
and then always also take more mag each day, spaced out well away from the d3/mag combo intake.

re zinc products with no copper. should be okay for a month. if you need more than a month to replenish zinc levels, definitely choose a copper-zinc product.

zinc supplements which are not balanced with copper are not safe longer term.
higher zinc intakes can deplete copper.

the zinc copper ratio in products should be aroud 25:1. the product i have right now is 30 mg zinc and the copper is in there, but looks a bit low. less than 1mg.

these issues mean it's best to make sure that the first step to meeting your daily nutritional needs is a wide variety of healthy, high nutrient-density food sources.

zinc http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... t&dbid=115
copper http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... nt&dbid=53

hopefully july's results will be excellent :D
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Re: blood test results

Postby zen2010 » Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:30 am

jimmylegs wrote:
zinc supplements which are not balanced with copper are not safe longer term.
higher zinc intakes can deplete copper.

the zinc copper ratio in products should be aroud 25:1.


Hi, Thks for the advice about copper,

I will get a bottle of chelated copper (2.5 mg) and take 1 daily. As I take 54 mg of zinc, the ratio 25:1 is very close.

I won't pruchase a combined zinc-copper product as this will be a problem (in term of quantity) with the multivit I take.
I don't want to face toxicity issue.

Cheers
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Re: blood test results

Postby jimmylegs » Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:37 am

sounds good!
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Re: blood test results

Postby jimmylegs » Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:46 am

CNS demyelination associated with copper deficiency and hyperzincemia
http://n.neurology.org/content/59/9/1453.short
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Re: blood test results

Postby zen2010 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:49 am

jimmylegs wrote:will look forward to progress updates in july :)


Hi Jimmylegs,

Here are my new blood test results.
Can you pls provide your feedback ? (are the results ok for a MSer)

-Calcium: 2.40mmol/L ( 2.41mmol/L last January)

-Magnesium: 0.89 mmol/L (0.81 mmol/L Last January)

-25-OH D3 Vit: 60.9 nmol/L (82.2 nmol/L Last January)

-B12 Vit: 493 pmol/L (588 pmol/L Last January)

-Zinc: In process (I will get the result on Thursday or Friday)


Notes:
-I increased Mag (Bysglicinate) up to 500 mg/day but the result looks a bit low (You adviced to target 1.1mmol/L)
-Seems I have a D vit deficiency -> I will take more supplements (I stupidly stopped taking supplements few months ago).
I am feeling very tired: could this lack of Dvit be the reason???

Thank you very much for your feedback
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Re: blood test results

Postby jimmylegs » Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:06 am

Hi again :) please forgive if i'm repeating myself with anything posted below

calcium status looks reasonable

re magnesium, improving at least but certainly with a ways to go. please advise re specifics for your daily magnesium regimen including primary food sources, and re supplementation, detailed timing (time of day; before, with or after food); dose division if any; combinations with other supplements; intake of other meds if applicable; and whether you have room to increase daily intake considering 7-10 mg/kg body weight per day as a target; to what degree you regularly consume antinutrient foods eg high fibre and/or phytates, or antinutrient fluids eg caffeine and/or alcohol. maybe it would be useful to journal a three day detailed diary of foods fluids supplements and meds intakes.

when you reintroduce d3, are you thinking of doing a short term megadose to kick things off, or working with a maintenance 4000IU/d intake over the longer term? either way, ensure 50% of daily supplemental magnesium goes in at the same time as the d3.

b12 is still okay. i like to be around 500 pmol/l and consider 370 pmol/l a lower cutoff.

re tiredness, i don't personally go to d3 first where fatigue is concerned. do you have a recent serum ferritin level on file? could you share details of your current overall regimen? if so something may stand out as a possible action item.

i'll check back in for serum zinc later this week :)
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!
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Re: blood test results

Postby zen2010 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:38 am

Hi JL, thks very much for your feedback!

jimmylegs wrote: please advise re specifics for your daily magnesium regimen including primary food sources, and re supplementation

I don't monitor food sources. I just eat as less sugar and salt as I can. Also, I try to vary what I eat.
Regarding the supplementation, I use Magnesium Bisglycinate from Solgar . I plan to go to 6 * 100 mg tablets per day (2tabs/8am +2/12am + 2/8pm)

jimmylegs wrote:when you reintroduce d3, are you thinking of doing a short term megadose to kick things off

I just took UI13000 few minutes ago. Then I plan to go to UI4000 per day

jimmylegs wrote:ensure 50% of daily supplemental magnesium goes in at the same time as the d3

I plan to take D3 at 12am at the same time than 200mg Mg

jimmylegs wrote:re tiredness, i don't personally go to d3 first where fatigue is concerned

My bad, I used the wrong word.
The word tiredness is not correct

What I really meant was that my general status was doing bad compared to months before(difficulties to concentrate, to speak, to walk)

thks again
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