Women - get out of Canada

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Women - get out of Canada

Postby bromley » Tue Oct 24, 2006 9:36 am

The usual ratio of females to males getting MS is 2:1. However, this seems to be increasing in Canada (and I also saw similar data for Denmark). Surely someone can work out what is going on!

I'd offer Canadian women the chance to come back to the home country (for those with English ancestry) but we are pretty full. Canadian men e.g. Dignan might want to advertise for wives in Florida as the MS risk is lower and the women are generally more attractive.

http://www.msif.org/en/research/researc ... f_mul.html
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Postby Melody » Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:18 am

8O 8O 8O
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Re: Women - get out of Canada

Postby Lyon » Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:01 pm

Last edited by Lyon on Sat May 07, 2011 5:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Women - get out of Canada

Postby flipflopper » Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:26 pm

I know that you are just kidding here, but this is the part I don’t agree with

bromley wrote:Canadian men e.g. Dignan might want to advertise for wives in Florida as the MS risk is lower and the women are generally more attractive.

Interesting article though.
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Postby bromley » Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:29 pm

Canadian women know that I am joking. Jimmylegs knows that I have got a crush on her.

But it is worrying that the ratio is increasing - and not just in Canada. I've been wracking my brain trying to think what the reasons are. I'm a fan of a virus as a trigger / cause, but this doesn't seem to fit this research. I can't think what women are doing differently than they did before when the ratio was closer.

I assume those with the genetic susceptibility are the same (men and women). I'm trying to think what a possible environmental change might be - Contraceptive pill? Earlier puberty? More sexual partners? More smoking? Drinking less / more milk? There's a hormone factor somewhere - Sharon to advise.

So something is going on and habits / lifestyles are changing. And you can come up with a theory e.g. a sexually transmitted disease, but then someone will provide a list of women with MS who have not been sexually active / nuns with MS etc. The same for non-smokers etc etc.

Can Canadian women think what has changed that might account for the increase in the ratio?


PS Flipflopper - are you saying that women in Florida are less attractive than Canadian women?
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attractive what-now?

Postby jimmylegs » Tue Oct 24, 2006 4:30 pm

"attractiveness" is in the eye of the beholder they say - maybe some ppl think a parka is just too damned sexy to wreck by shedding it for a bikini!

brom: "oh, you! tee hee hee!" :oops:
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Postby dignan » Tue Oct 24, 2006 4:35 pm

OK Bromley, I have a theory -- epigenetics. There's a lot of study being done on epigenetics and one aspect of this is research focused on the X chromosome. For instance, there is this research group...

Our group is interested in the structure, biology and evolution of the human X chromosome. The X chromosome has characteristics that are unique among the chromosomes. The most apparent of these is that females have two X chromosomes while males have an X and a Y chromosome. The X and Y, or sex chromosomes are believed to have been homologues in a common ancestor of the mammals. However, when they were recruited into the sex-determination process, a sequence of events ensued in which the Y chromosome became severely eroded by mutation. The human Y chromosome carries few of the genes found on the X chromosome, which has two particularly important consequences. First, X-linked recessive diseases are manifested in males. And second, a mechanism has evolved to avoid the potential imbalance between males and females of proteins produced from X-linked genes. This process, known as dosage compensation, is achieved by the inactivation of one of the X chromosomes in females. We are mapping and sequencing the human X chromosome to provide the basis to understand its biology and evolution.


There's also Wesley's theory (BioDocFL here at ThisIsMS)...

Autoimmune disorders result from loss of epigenetic control following chromosome damage.

Med Hypotheses. 2005;64(3):590-8.
Brooks WH.
Drug Discovery Program, SRB-3, H. Lee Moffitt Cancer Center and Research Institute, 12902 Magnolia Drive, Tampa, FL 33612, USA. brookswh@moffitt.usf.edu

Multiple sclerosis, systemic lupus erythematosus, and rheumatoid arthritis share common features in typical cases such as: adult onset, central nervous system problems, female predominance, episodes triggered by a variety of stresses, and an autoimmune reaction. At times, the different disorders are found in the same patient or close relatives. These disorders are quite complex but they may share a common mechanism that results in different, tissue-specific consequences based on the cell types in which the mechanism occurs. Here, it is hypothesized that DNA damage can lead to loss of epigenetic control, particularly when the damaged chromatin is distributed unevenly to daughter cells. Expression of genes and pseudogenes that have lost their epigenetic restraints can lead to autoimmune disorders. Loss of control of genes on the X chromosome and loss of control of polyamine expression are discussed as examples of this mechanism.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... &DB=pubmed

I thought Wesley gave a reasonably easy-to-understand description of the epigenetic influence of the X chromosome here:

"The horse jumped over the moon."

To demonstrate the epigenetic version of this, the silencing of the gene without mutating it, I can put a piece of paper over the sentence and the image can not be created in your mind because you can not see/read the sentence (the 'DNA sequence of the gene'). If I simply remove the paper you can then read the sentence ('gene') and get the proper image ('protein') of a cow jumping over the moon.

Think of the paper as being DNA methylation and histone methylation which are some of the things that can suppress a gene from being read in the cell. If you remove the DNA methylation and histone methylation from key sites in the gene, particularly in the gene's promoter region, then the gene can be read to create the corresponding protein.

Now think of the sentence twice, in other words we have two copies of the gene (for example as females have two X chromosomes with the same genes).

"The cow jumped over the moon."
"The cow jumped over the moon."

We only want to convey the image once, otherwise we are overdoing it. So we cover one sentence (epigenetic silencing) and let the remaining one be seen to convey the image. If for some reason the paper gets removed from the second sentence by accident, we now have the sentences and the images overexpressed. No mutations occurred, just a loss of the epigenetic silencing.


I don't know why epigenetic control would be getting worse over time, but it seems that we humans are producing all kinds of chemicals these days that could be having an unintended influence.

I don't know, it's just a thought...
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Postby Melody » Tue Oct 24, 2006 4:55 pm

Just a thought what about vitamin d. More women then men stay out of the sun and tend to spend more time on spreading on moisturizers with sunscreen. This wouldn't be the full picture of course but it could definitely have weighted the odds. Men are also less likely to go unless they are truly showing signs where I note more women will take there health more seriously as we don't attribute poor health to weakness where maybe men do. John would have never went in without me pushing him. Just thinking out loud.

And maybe ugly women tend to get MS more often then the cute guys we have in Canada :lol: :lol:
John was diagnosed Jan 2005. On lipitor 20mg .On Copaxone since July 4,2005. Vitamin D3 2000iu-4000iu (depending on sunshine months)June 10 2005(RX::Dr. O'Connor) Omega 3 as well Turmeric since April 2005. Q10 60mg. 1500mg liquid Glucosamine Nov 2005.
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dietary habits

Postby jimmylegs » Tue Oct 24, 2006 5:13 pm

could be part of it, you can imagine what my two cents will be: women eating less red meat than guys, that could bring the uric acid down and threaten the BBB more. i have been eating fish and eggs almost daily, plus supplementing and my b12 is up to 658 which is the highest it's been in years and years and years.
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Postby robbie » Tue Oct 24, 2006 5:52 pm

What does this mean jimmylegs, who tests you for this.
b12 is up to 658
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My suspicion for increasing prevalence

Postby lyndacarol » Tue Oct 24, 2006 5:59 pm

This is my idea of a real forum! We can all throw ideas out there, whether logical or not!

I am on jimmylegs' and Melody's teams; also I have my own twist--simplistic, I know. But you intelligent people are kind and will let me live with the delusion that I can contribute something significant, I hope.

In addition, could women have smaller sinuses, even with more deviated septums and problems, that promote sinusitis (mucus)? Maybe women cry more often, creating more mucus? Or, remember that even ovulation is an inflammatory process, all these things could contribute to excess insulin secretion?

Since vitamin D exposure is lower in women than men who are more likely to be outside, normal insulin secretion, being dependent on vitamin D, is replaced by excess insulin.

Until the definitive answer is found, maybe we all are right in some aspect.
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Postby Melody » Tue Oct 24, 2006 6:30 pm

Something to read over for ideas.



Autoimmune Disease

The term "autoimmune disease" refers to a varied group of more than 80 serious, chronic illnesses that involve almost every human organ system. It includes diseases of the nervous, gastrointestinal, and endocrine systems as well as skin and other connective tissues, eyes blood, and blood vessel. In all of these diseases, the underlying problem is similar--the body's immune system becomes misdirected, attacking the very organs it was designed to protect.
Table I
Female:Male Ratios
in Autoimmune Diseases
Hashimoto's disease/hypothyroiditis 50:1
Systemic lupus erythematosus 9:1
Sjogren's syndrome 9:1
Antiphospholipid syndrome 9:1
Primary biliary cirrhosis 9:1
Mixed connective tissue disease 8:1
Chronic active hepatitis 8:1
Graves' disease/hyperthyroiditis 7:1
Rheumatoid arthritis 4:1
Scleroderma 3:1
Myasthenia gravis 2:1
Multiple sclerosis 2:1
Chronic idiopathic thrombo-
cytopenic purpura 2:1

For reasons we do not understand, about 75 percent of autoimmune diseases occur in women, most frequently during the childbearing years. Table I(left) lists the female-to-male ratios in autoimmune diseases. Hormones are thought to play a role, because some autoimmune illnesses occur more frequently after menopause, others suddenly improve during pregnancy, with flare-ups occurring after delivery, while still others will get worse during pregnancy.

Autoimmune diseases also seem to have a genetic component, but, mysteriously, they can cluster in families as different illnesses. For example, a mother may have lupus erythematosus; her daughter, diabetes; her grandmother, rheumatoid arthritis. Research is shedding light on genetic as well as hormonal and environmental risk factors that contribute to the causes of these diseases.

Individually, autoimmune diseases are not very common, with the exception of thyroid disease, diabetes, and systemic lupus erythematosus (SLE). However, taken as a whole, they represent the fourth-largest cause of disability among women in the United States.


Autoimmune diseases remain among the most poorly understood and poorly recognized of any category of illnesses. Individual diseases range from the benign to the severe. Symptoms vary widely, notably from one illness to another, but even within the same disease. And because the diseases affect multiple body systems, their symptoms are often misleading, which hinders accurate diagnosis. To help women live longer, healthier lives, a better understanding of these diseases is needed, as well as providing early diagnosis and treatment.

An inflammation of the connective tissues, SLE can afflict every organ system. It is up to nine times more common in women than men and strikes black women three times as often as white women. The condition is aggravated by sunlight.

Symptoms: Fever, weight loss, hair loss, moth and nose sores, malaise, fatigue, seizures and symptoms of mental illness. Ninety percent of patients experience joint inflammation similar to rheumatoid arthritis. Fifty percent develop a classic "butterfly" rash on the nose and cheeks. Raynaud's phenomenon (extreme sensitivity to cold in the hands and feet) appears in about 20 percent of people with SLE.

Treatment: Anti-inflammatory drugs can help control arthritis symptoms; skin lesions may respond to topical treatment such as corticosteroid creams. Oral steroids, such as prednisone, are used for the systemic symptoms. Wearing protective clothing and sunscreen when outdoors is recommended.

Rheumatoid arthritis is a systemic disorder in which immune cells attack and inflame the membrane around joints. It also can affect the heart, lungs, and eyes. Of the estimated 2.1 million Americans with rheumatoid arthritis, approximately 1.5 million (71 percent) are women.

Symptoms: Inflamed and/or deformed joints, loss of strength, swelling, pain.

Treatment: Rest and exercise; anti-inflammatory drugs when necessary.

Scleroderma is an activations of immune cells which produces scar tissue in the skin, internal organs, and small blood vessels. It affects women three times more often than men overall, but increases to a rate 15 times greater for women during childbearing years, and appears to be more common among black women.

Symptoms: In most patients, the first symptoms are Raynaud's phenomenon and swelling and puffiness of the fingers or hands. Skin thickening follows a few months later. Other symptoms include skin ulcers on the fingers, joint stiffness in the hands, pain , sore throat, and diarrhea.

Treatment: The drug D-penicillamine has been shown to decrease skin thickening. Symptoms involving other organs such as the kidneys, esophagus, intestines, and blood vessels are treated individually.

Sjögren's syndrome (also called Sjögren's disease) is a chronic, slowly progressing inability to secrete saliva and tears. It can occur alone or with rheumatoid arthritis, scleroderma, or systemic lupus erythematosus. Nine out of 10 cases occur in women, most often at or around mid-life.

Symptoms: Dryness of the eyes and mouth, swollen neck glands, difficulty swallowing or talking, unusual tastes or smells, thirst, tongue ulcers, and severe dental caries.

Treatment: Interventions to keep the mouth and eyes moist include drinking a lot of fluids and using eye drops, as well as good oral hygiene and eye care.



A disease of the central nervous system that usually first appears between the ages of 20 and 40, and affects women twice as often as men. MS is the leading cause of disability among young adults.

Symptoms: Numbness, weakness, tingling or paralysis in one or more limbs, impaired vision and eye pain, tremor, lack of coordination or unsteady gait and rapid involuntary eye movement. A history of at least two episodes of a cluster of symptoms is necessary for a diagnosis of MS. Because MS affects the central nervous system, symptoms may be misdiagnosed as mental illness.

Treatment: The drug baclofen is used to suppress muscle spasticity, and corticosteroids help reduce inflammation. Interferons also are being used to treat this disease.

This is a chronic autoimmune disorder characterized by gradual muscle weakness, often appearing first in the face.

Symptoms: Drooping eyelids, double vision, and difficulty breathing, talking, chewing, and swallowing.

Treatment: The drug edrophonium along with daily rest periods can improve muscle strength.

Guillain-Barré syndrome is an acute illness that causes severe nerve damage. Two-thirds of all cases occur after a viral infection.

Symptoms: Tingling in the fingers and toes, general muscle weakness, difficulty breathing, and, in severe cases, paralysis.

Treatment: Supportive care until the condition is stabilized, then rehabilitation therapy combined with whirlpool baths to relieve pain and facilitate retraining of movements. A process called plasmapheresis, which removes plasma and nerve-damaging antibodies from the blood, is used during the first few weeks after a severe attack and may improve the chance of a full recovery.



Hashimoto's Thyroiditis is a type of autoimmune disease in which the immune system destroys the thyroid, the gland that helps set the rate of metabolism. It attacks women 50 times more often than men.

Symptoms: Low levels of thyroid hormone cause mental and physical slowing, greater sensitivity to cold, weight gain, coarsening of the skin, and goiter (a swelling of the neck due to an enlarged thyroid gland).

Treatment: Thyroid hormone replacement therapy.

Graves' disease is one of the most common autoimmune diseases, affecting 13 million people and targeting women seven times as often as men.. Patients with Graves' disease produce an excessive amount of thyroid hormone.

Symptoms: Weight loss due to increased energy expenditure; increased appetite, heart rate, and blood pressure; tremors, nervousness and sweating; frequent bowel movements.

Treatment: Antithyroid drug therapy or removal of the thyroid gland surgically or by radioiodine.

Type 1 diabetes is caused by too little insulin production in the pancreas, and usually occurs in children and young adults, but it can occur at any age.

Symptoms: Increased thirst, increased urination, weight loss, fatigue, nausea, vomiting, frequent infections.

Treatment: Monitoring of diet and insulin.



Inflammatory bowel disease describes two autoimmune disorder of the small intestine--Crohn's disease and ulcerative colitis.

Symptoms of Crohn's disease: Persistent diarrhea, abdominal pain, fever, and general fatigue.

Symptoms of ulcerative colitis: Bloody diarrhea, pain, urgent bowel movements, joint pains, and skin lesions.

In both diseases, there is a risk of significant weight loss and malnutrition.

Treatment: Antidiarrheal pills or bulk formers for mild cases. For more serious cases, anti-inflammatory drugs are effective. Corticosteroids are reserved for acute flare-ups of these diseases. In some cases, surgery may be required to remove obstructions or repair perforation of the colon.

This is a broad and heterogeneous group of diseases characterized by inflammation and damage to the blood vessels, thought to be brought on by an autoimmune response. Any type, size, and location of blood vessel may be involved. Vasculitis may occur alone or in combination with other diseases, and may be confined to one organ or involve several organ systems.

Blood also can be affected by autoimmune disorder. In autoimmune hemolytic anemia, red blood cells are prematurely destroyed by antibodies. Other autoimmune diseases of the blood include autoimmune thrombocytopenic purpura and autoimmune neutropenia.

The skin frequently gives the first sign that an autoimmune diseases is present. In many of the diseases mentioned, the skin is only peripherally involved, but in others, the skin is the primary site of the disease. One of the foremost is psoriasis, a common skin disease that results from a malfunction in the life cycle of skin cells. The process of skin cell production that normally takes about a month is speeded up to several days, resulting in a build-up of thick scales.


Autoimmune diseases run the gamut from mild to disabling and potentially life threatening. Nearly all affect women at far greater rates than men. The question before the scientific community is "why?" We have come a long way in the diagnosis and treatment of autoimmune disease. But more work is needed, especially in the areas of discovering the causes and developing more effective treatments and prevention strategies.

The U.S. Public Health Service's (PHS) Office on Women's Health in the Department of Health and Human Services, was established to redress the inequities in research, health services, and education that have placed the health of American women at risk. Its mission is to direct, stimulate, and coordinate women's health research, health care services, and public and health care professional education and training across the Public Health Service agencies and to collaborate with other government organizations, foundations, private industry, consumer and health care professional groups to advance women's health. The focal point for women's health activities in the Department of Health and Human Services, the PHS Office on Women's Health is working to improve the health of American women in this decade and beyond into the 21st century.

The programs and activities in autoimmune diseases of the PHS Office on Women's Health, joined with initiatives and programs across the agencies and office of the Department of Health and Human Services, are providing a solid foundation from which to increase knowledge about autoimmune disorders in women.

For more information on autoimmune diseases, contact:
American Autoimmune Related Diseases Association
15475 Gratiot Avenue
Detroit, MI 48205
Phone: (313) 371-8600

<shortened url>
John was diagnosed Jan 2005. On lipitor 20mg .On Copaxone since July 4,2005. Vitamin D3 2000iu-4000iu (depending on sunshine months)June 10 2005(RX::Dr. O'Connor) Omega 3 as well Turmeric since April 2005. Q10 60mg. 1500mg liquid Glucosamine Nov 2005.
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b12, iron, uric acid

Postby jimmylegs » Tue Oct 24, 2006 6:35 pm

hi robbie, sorry i was not clear. rereading my post it's just a TAD disjointed! (pre-coffee, sorry). it's not like a b-cell test or anything. i meant my serum vitamin b12 is up nice and high. for the test i just go to any doc, at the moment it's the campus doc, and ask for a lab requisition.

i have been deficient and low before. when i started reading up on it i made a personal goal to get above 500. i found it was very difficult to achieve when there was alcohol in the picture, and also alcohol artificially raises the results of a b12 test. not to mention that the standard numbers for "low" "insufficient" and "deficient" are way too low to start with!

anyway i felt very pleased to be at 658 because your typical ms patient is lower than 300 if i recall my journal reading correctly (they interpreted that as not deficient - OKAY THEN).

i think in my post i jumped from uric acid to b12 because in my reading all these elements are so interconnected. i was reading that it's hard for b12 to cross the bbb when i was looking at what keeps the bbb intact. about that bbb... turns out its integrity is related to uric acid status, which i have recently included in my mega D post, i believe.

i know my uric acid has been right smack in the middle of the ms range (it WAS 194 at last test, need an updated number), that's another simple blood test from the doc. i need to get it higher to keep the bbb happy. i'm thinking around 250 should do it.

furthermore, i read that iron deficiency increases nitric oxide (that's pasted in below). NO is the baddie that uric acid helps control. so you if you have low iron, your body gets more oxidation. if you have low uric acid, it's not able to control the oxidation and the bbb suffers. low uric acid is associated with relapse in ms patients per the abstract i mentioned above, the one in the Mega D post... so anyway in addition to my "MS" uric acid level, i was also iron deficient before i left for australia. i have been supplementing iron at 10x the daily recommended for months and as of my recent test, i've made it into the bottom third of the normal range for serum ferritin. so is it all connected? i think it may well be and all i can say is, i'm getting my danged blood into the "normal" range for all these different serum indicators and then we'll just see what frickin ms can try to do to me!

Iron deficiency anemia increases nitric oxide production in healthy adolescents
Journal Annals of Hematology
Issue Volume 81, Number 1 / January, 2002

J. Choi, S. Pai, S. Kim, M. Ito, C. Park, Y. Cha
To investigate the influence of iron deficiency and iron supplementation on nitric oxide (NO) production, we measured serum iron markers, serum nitrate and nitrite (NOx) concentrations, reticulocyte maturity index (RMI), and serum transferrin receptor (sTfR) levels in 369 females aged 14-19 years. RMI was analyzed by flow cytometry, sTfR concentrations were measured by enzyme immunoassay, and serum NOx levels were tested by the Griess reaction. NOx concentrations of the subjects in iron depletion phase were significantly higher than those of healthy controls. NOx concentrations increased gradually as iron deficiency progressed and were threefold higher than for the healthy controls, when the subjects attained a frank iron deficiency anemia. In particular, the NOx concentrations were 7.5-fold higher in the patients with severe iron deficiency anemia (Hb<80 g/l) than for the subjects with high hemoglobin value (HbS140 g/l). The increased NOx concentrations (132.6-42.1 µM) observed in the group with severe anemia decreased significantly (46.3-15.8 µM) after hemoglobin levels were normalized by iron supplementation (P<0.01). NOx concentrations correlated inversely with hemoglobin levels (r2=0.202, P<0.01), but correlated positively with the sTfR concentrations (r2=0.322, P<0.01) and the RMI (r2=0.369, P<0.01). In conclusion, iron deficiency anemia increases NO production, and elevated NOx concentrations in iron deficiency anemia return to normal with iron supplementation.
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Postby robbie » Tue Oct 24, 2006 6:43 pm

thanks jimmylegs..
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Women Should Get Out of the US too

Postby Shayk » Tue Oct 24, 2006 7:16 pm

So much to comment on, where to start….

First off, I’m not quite sure if Dignan really wants to go to Florida to find a girlfriend. (I'm setting that whole "attractiveness" issue to the side.) According to this study, the relative risk of MS among women in the U.S. has also increased considerably and the geographic north/south “differential” is decreasing.

MS in US Veterans: Race, Sex and Geography

Versus white men, relative risk of MS was significantly higher for all women, at 2.99 for whites, 2.86 for blacks, and 3.51 for those of other races. This was a significant increase from our prior series of veterans

Such marked changes in geography, sex, and race in such a short interval strongly imply a primary environmental factor in the cause or precipitation of this disease.

Ian, I know you really didn't write this first sentence 8O
I can't think what women are doing differently than they did before when the ratio was closer.

I'm gonna tell ya here shortly.
So something is going on and habits / lifestyles are changing.

Indeed they are Ian—the lifestyle of women. My prime “environmental” candidate for precipitating the significant increase of MS in women remains cortisol (the stress hormone.)

The equal rights movement in the U.S. afforded women lots of new opportunities but I think it’s generally believed that these equal opportunities were not accompanied by equal pay or a commensurate decrease in childrearing or household responsibilities for women who choose to work.

On that topic and to make the point, there’s an interesting “My Turn” column in this weeks Newsweek, The Ballad of the Working Mother
As a single mom working full time, not only am I bringing home the bacon, I have to cook it too.

Money was always a problem. Like most working women, I was underpaid

For almost three decades I have been a working mother, managing to support my family in a society that routinely underpays women, undervalues child care and ties family health-care access to employment level. There are millions like me. Yet we are practically invisible.

Sounds like a potentially stressful lifestyle to me. And, we shouldn’t forget (at least I don’t think so) that ever-increasing levels of the stress hormone cortisol (HPA hyperactivity) have been linked to disability progression in MS (both cognitively and physically, statistically significant findings). High cortisol levels cause “glutamate toxicity”. Myelin, axons and neurons can all be lost from “gluatamate toxicity”.

So, that’s my take on why MS is increasing in women but not men in the U.S. I don’t know if there’s a similar “lifestyle environment” in Canada or Denmark. Would love for someone to offer a perspective on that.

Dignan—that’s my question:
why epigenetic control would be getting worse over time.
There was an abstract at the Society for Neuroscience Conference entitled: “The XX sex chromosome complement, as compared to the XY, confers greater susceptibility to EAE”. I sincerely hope it’s not the first time they checked this out but the very title makes it sound like it is.

How long have they known that women are more susceptible to MS and they haven’t even checked out that friggin’ mouse yet to see if female mice are more susceptible to EAE? I would’ve thought you wouldn’t even work on EAE as a model until that had been demonstrated. It’s so basic. :x

Jimmylegs—I think Ian is making a pass at you. He titles the thread “Women Get Out of Canada” and then confesses to having a crush on you. I say look out..... :lol:

Lynda Carol:
Until the definitive answer is found, maybe we all are right in some aspect.

I couldn’t agree more.

Take care everyone and by all means “de-stress” your life. :wink:

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