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Postby jimmylegs » Sat May 31, 2008 5:48 pm

terry you naughty thing, i forgot u were the ice chewer. how goes the homeopathic regimen - did u ever finish it up and get yourself looked at for anemia?
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Postby Terry » Sat May 31, 2008 8:02 pm

No need to look at anemia since the doc said no to iron supplements. Funny, though, isn't it, that the ice crunching went away after the fever? I do still crunch an ice cube on occasion, but not in the "I must have it or I will die" kind of way that I used to. At first after the fever, I didn't at all. I really wondered if I had/have pathogens that need a lower body temp to survive. I actually wondered if they could make me crave the ice to keep the temp lower. Crazy thought?
The homeopathic regimen is fine, I guess. Who knows! I had a bout of ON and other stuff a while back, and the doc had me take three doses two weeks apart of a higher strength. The ON is gone and the other stuff is better. It may have gone away without the meds, who knows. I am to call him in two weeks to tell him how I am and find out what to do next.
I think he really believes that he can keep this MS to a dull roar, and he says everything can heal. So, I like his attitude, and I keep going back.
I think if I were to need to do something else, I'd do antibiotics or antivirals. I have the feeling that the antivirals aren't so good yet- still kind of a new thing. I have to work, though, so I don't want to do anything to make myself feel bad unless I have to. Seems that those on abx get to feeling pretty bad sometimes.

Thanks for askin', JL.
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Postby jimmylegs » Sat May 31, 2008 8:44 pm

yea i don't know much about it, it just set off a little warning flag to hear that ice crunching because it's so unusual and i thought it might have been you that mentioned it before, but i couldn't remember for sure til i went back and checked.

okay let me just understand something though, if your doctor knew you did have a serious iron deficiency anemia, you still would not be allowed to take iron? has he told you to avoid food sources of iron?

you must already know the iron info but i'll post for any future curious others...

http://www.thedoctorwillseeyounow.com/a ... /fedef_17/
...iron plays a key role not only in the body's oxygen transport and delivery system, but also in the regulation of metabolism. Iron is needed to synthesize vital substances such as the brain chemical, dopamine, DNA and white blood cells. Thus iron deficiency can do much more harm than merely causing anemia; it can have widespread effects -- from damaging a person's ability to think to weakening their resistance to infection.

You can assess your risk of developing iron deficiency by looking for the major risk factors: an iron-poor diet, unusual blood loss, a history of iron deficiency and actual symptoms. A good way to do this is to give yourself the following test.

-Do you consume two or more portions of meat, fish, chicken, nuts, seeds or legumes per day?
-Do you eat at least six servings of grains per day?
-Do you generally eat at least one serving of fruits or vegetables containing foods at the same meal as grains or beans?
-Do you take a calcium supplement or over-the-counter antacid at every meal?
The first two questions ask about consumption of iron containing foods. The third and fourth questions ask about consumption of foods that may affect iron absorption. If you answered no to one of the first three questions or yes to the last question, you may be at risk for iron deficiency.

Menstrual and Other Blood Loss

-Do you soak through your tampons or pads?
-Does your period last longer than six days?
-If you answered yes to either of these questions, you may be at risk.

Other causes of blood loss to look out for are gastrointestinal, urinary or pulmonary bleeding. Any patient with one or more of these types of blood loss should seek medical treatment or, if they are being treated, raise the issue of iron deficiency with their doctor. Another relatively common cause of increased iron requirements is frequent blood donation. Anyone who donates blood regularly should be screened for iron deficiency during their annual check-up.

History of Iron Deficiency

-Have you been treated for iron deficiency in the past?
Even if a previous iron deficiency problem was treated and easily corrected, whatever caused the deficiency may remain and the deficiency may recur. For this reason, anyone who has been diagnosed with iron deficiency in the past should be periodically reevaluated.

Signs and Symptoms

-Do you have any of the following signs and symptoms: general lethargy; unusual fatigue after exercise; pica (compulsive eating of non-food items); pagophagia (compulsive eating of ice); signs of iron deficiency including paleness of the skin or eyes, intestinal problems, cognitive problems such as impaired learning ability, and spoon nails (thin and concave fingernails)? Anyone having any of these should see a doctor as soon as possible.

Treating Iron Deficiency
When doctors suspect an iron deficiency, the first thing they will do is measure the blood level of a protein called ferritin. Ferritin concentration indicates how much iron is stored in the body. Chronic infection, inflammation or certain diseases causing tissue and organ damage can produce a false reading. In the absence of one of these conditions, however, if ferritin is low, doctors will usually assume iron deficiency and begin treatment. This holds true even if there is no obvious sign of anemia.3,4

The Federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) recommends a three-month course of therapy for the treatment of iron deficiency. Some authorities, however, advise patients to continue iron supplementation for six to twelve months. An important note about iron supplements is that they can often produce black-colored stools. Whichever approach your doctor chooses, it is important that you add more iron in the form of iron-rich foods to your diet and that your doctor treats any correctable cause of blood loss. Patients with ongoing blood loss that cannot be corrected may need, in addition to eating a more iron-rich diet, to continue taking low-dose iron supplements indefinitely.
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Postby Terry » Sun Jun 01, 2008 7:00 am

Hey JL,

I had my iron tested in November 2007. It was 28 (ref range 40-175); the iron binding capacity 355 (in range); % saturation 8 (ref range 15-50%). I am not anemic, just pretty darned low.
The reason he said no iron supps was that "it has an oxidative effect".
I spent much time researching to see if taking iron would HELP bacteria/virus grow- if the oxidative effect would help them proliferate. I cannot remember ONE THING in detail that I learned, but I do know that I decided to trust him on this one. He does not blame a pathogen for my MS, but I tend to, so once told not to take it, that is the research route I took. The quote above is the only reason he gave me.
For me, it came down to - did I have low iron first, before MS, or did my body go low to counter the MS events? I do know that I used to chew ice during pregnancies. That was in the 80's- a long time ago. So maybe it was the low iron first. ???
I was never told to stay away from iron-rich foods. In fact, he told me in the beginning that he really didn't think it would matter at all what I eat. He told me if I wanted to change my eating patterns, though, to do the Swank Diet.
I still am amazed of the difference in my before fever and after fever habits. I told him about this last time I was there, and he just looked curious. No answers.
It is all a mystery to me, JL.
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Postby jimmylegs » Sun Jun 01, 2008 10:51 am

wow terry, how far below the reference range do you have to be to be anemic then? you're looking like way out the bottom. is it that your RBC and hemoglobin counts haven't gone out the bottom of normal yet, and that's why such low iron isn't triggering a treatment recommendation from anyone?

i think if i were in your position, i'd weigh the balances and take iron for the good it could do my immune's battle against a pathogen, and take lots of antioxidants to help combat any potential oxidizing effects.

i think if your iron is too high, yes that could be a problem for benefiting pathogens, but getting it up to normal can NOT be a bad thing IMHO. i even think i might have said this to you last year... your body will suck up any iron it can get and not leave any left over for pathogens for a long while to come, by the looks of things. you've likely researched it in more detail than i, but at the moment, i am shocked that you would consider allowing your body to continue in such a poor iron nutrition condition.

when i talked to my neuro about the merits and pitfalls of eating fish, she said bioaccumulation is one thing, yes, but the good far outweighs the bad. i've taken that to heart in many ways.

for any undecided low iron patients out there:

Micronutrients and susceptibility to infection
G. T. Keusch
Department of Medicine, New England Medical Center/Tufts University School of Medicine, Boston, Massachusetts 02111.

Iron deficiency and vitamin A deficiency are both reported to predispose to infection morbidity and to mortality. In both situations, however, the data are insufficient to draw firm conclusions, primarily owing to flaws in the design of the studies. To be sure, these are difficult studies to carry out, and the investigators whose reports have been reviewed should be praised rather than adversely criticized for their efforts. In the case of iron deficiency, there is a further complication in interpretation, that is the suggestion that iron deficiency states may be protective and that conditions of iron overload may predispose to infection. These concepts appear to pertain most convincingly to malaria and Yersinia infections, and to situations in which iron dextran is given parenterally to young children in the first few months of life. There are still too few data to suggest that oral iron is harmful and there is no reason at present that it should not be employed for the correction of iron deficiency anemia.
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