Thyroid problems and MS

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Postby jimmylegs » Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:57 am

hi alicia, i don't know if they would test your nutrients in the usual course of things, even in what they call 'complete' bloodwork. maybe they would do b12 but i think that's about it. possibly iron but not necessarily!

anyway. for both of you it might help to have some nutrient numbers.

i think d3 is a more important test than iron or zinc (although both of those are worth knowing too - zinc is low in ms-ers and zn really helps your liver do super important stuff like processing ammonia into uric acid [antioxidant] status up into the optimal range). looks like selenium is important too and low selenium (a typical finding in ms) can elevate your T4.

i have only just started getting selenium tests done myself but i have a decent handle on the d3 aspect. if you can get your hands on some d3 numbers that would be a very good starting place. d3 is typically quite low in ms-ers and you want to be at least 100nmol/L (or equivalent in other units - the number's about 40 but i can't remember the actual unit part off the top of my head)

personally i aim for 150 nmol/L myself. the other day i think it was peekaboo posted an article where a particular source is advising at least 150 for d3 status. you don't want to go over 250 though as you start to see patients getting hypercalcemia when d3 is that high.

these are for fish and rats but you can see the implications...:

Diets deficient in vitamin D effected a significant increase in plasma triiodothyronine (T3) concentration in rainbow trout (Salmo gairdneri); different levels of dietary calcium exerted no effect on plasma T3 levels. These effects of vitamin D deficiency on plasma T3 levels appeared to be reversible, vitamin D supplementation after a period of vitamin D deficiency lowered T3 levels... vitamin D3 appeared to be more effective than vitamin D2... Plasma T4 levels were not affected by dietary vitamin D deficiency.

In selenium-deficient rats, peripheral T4 to T3 conversion is markedly decreased ...Despite the marked increase in circulating T4 that results ...serum T3 concentrations in selenium- deficient rats remain in the normal range. In euthyroid rats, selenium deficiency caused the expected loss of 5'D-I, with a 52% increase in serum T4...
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Postby me_x_5 » Wed Aug 12, 2009 5:53 pm

so on april 13th,08,my thyroid-TSH = <0.03 A , the normal target range,is suppose to be 0.40-4.oo ulU/ml,they said at the time that i had acute hyperthyroidism,and i dont see one test for d3. and i just had a baby on oct.31st o7.
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Postby jimmylegs » Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:22 am

weird, me - do you see any of the T3 T4 stuff on your test results?

...a test to measure the amount of TSH in your system will usually show lower than normal TSH when the thyroid is overactive (hyperthyroidism).
...some practitioners feel that relying solely on TSH -- a pituitary hormone -- without also evaluating the circulating levels of actual thyroid hormones T4 and T3 -- may not be able to detect more subtle thyroid problems... some practitioners also include other valuable blood tests, including T4, T3, Free T4, Free T3, Reverse T3, and antibodies tests.


funny, it looks like your lab is splitting the difference to come up with their range:
As of 2008, the normal reference range is approximately 0.5 to 5.0. So levels below 0.5 are considered possible evidence of hyperthyroidism, and levels above 5.0 would be considered possible evidence of hypothyroidism... as of late 2002, some endocrinologists believed that the range should be narrowed significantly, to 0.3 to 3.0.


me, you may want to have mini-me's vitamin d3 tested too. enfalac makes baby vitamin d3 liquid (it's yummy).
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Postby jimmylegs » Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:46 am

hi alicia, and me, just checking in on whether either of you are thinking about having your d3 looked at? or have done so?
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Postby LookingIntoIt » Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:08 pm

I don't know anything about how it relates to the other tests and to MS, but I can answer Alicia's question about the conflicting info.

Most GPs use an older range over 5 or 5.5 for diagnosing hypothyroidism. Most endocrinologists use a range only up to 2.5 or 3 for normal, which is the newer numbers recommended by endocrinologists. So that could explain why your number that falls between them is sometimes said to be normal and sometimes said not to be.

The antibodies test is interesting. A person should have zero antibodies on the test, but it isn't diagnosed with Hashimoto's until 10 I think is the number. Some doctors will say you don't have any antibodies if you're in the subclinical range of having them but not having enough for Hashimoto's diagnosis while others will tell you that you don't have enough to be diagnosed but that they see it is occurring and is likely to worsen. A good endocrinologist will be able to look at and feel your thyroid and to look at your numbers to watch for or rule out Hashimoto's. You might be told that you're in the beginning stages meaning your body is attacking it, but your thyroid is still functioning well enough to not need assistance. In that case, you would be tested every 6-12 months probably and eventually, maybe years out, you'd have antibodies and TSH counts high enough to need medication.

I hope that isn't confusing.
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Postby lyndacarol » Sun Jan 10, 2010 12:10 pm

After reading Kathryn R. Simpson's book, The MS Solution for the third time, I find myself agreeing with her more and more. For her, testing and correcting the hormone levels seem to have solved the problem. It is her premise that the symptoms of problems in the endocrine system, specifically of the thyroid gland, are the same symptoms seen in MS --

Early symptoms:

Being more sensitive to cold (and skin cold to the touch)
Constipation
Depression
Fatigue or feeling slowed down
Heavier menstrual periods
Joint or muscle pain
Paleness or dry skin
Thin, brittle hair or fingernails
Weakness (or hypotonia -- loss of muscle tone)
Weight gain (unintentional)


Late symptoms, if left untreated:

Decreased taste and smell
Hoarseness
Puffy face, hands, and feet (swelling of feet and legs)
Slow speech
Thickening of the skin
Thinning of eyebrows

There are even more in her book or, if you google "myxedema."

She recommends that TSH, free T4, free T3, reverse T3, and thyroid antibodies be tested; also, cortisol, glucose, and others. Of course, you know that I urge you to test your "fasting serum insuln."

I encourage you to discuss this possibility of endocrine involvement with your doctor.
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Postby Summer55 » Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:41 pm

I (apparently) have a thyroid problem as well.

I have MS - first symptoms in November 2008 - and just this past week I found out during an ultrasound to check for a stenosis, that I have a growth on my thyroid. I now have to have it biopsied.

This is a little different than the thyroid problems mentioned here. Any thoughts from anyone if there is any connection regarding this and my MS? I haven't been for blood tests for my thyroid, but I imagine that will be standard procedure as well.

Thanks for the posts and the links!

Summer
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Postby jimmylegs » Mon Jan 11, 2010 7:17 pm

my neuro ran a bunch of thyroid levels when he was trying to nail down my ms dx. he didn't find anything out of the 'normal' range, but i do have those levels available for when my condition was bad. perhaps i'll compare them to healthy controls now that i have a few years' perspective on it all :)

think i've touched on hypothyroidism and zinc before.. a couple of those early and late symptoms shout zinc to me :)

i really like ithyroid.com, here's the supplement page, very excellent advice on there

http://www.ithyroid.com/supplement_list.htm
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