New Member looking for natural care advice

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Re: New Member looking for natural care advice

Postby lyndacarol » Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:13 am

mccpm – I see the goal as reducing the insulin level. At this time, medicine has no drug or treatment other than a diet that can reduce the insulin level.

Metformin is used in type II diabetes to improve the effectiveness of insulin on glucose removal from the bloodstream. This may indirectly improve the amount of insulin secreted by the pancreas, since in a properly functioning Blood Sugar Control System the pancreas will produce an amount of insulin appropriate for the amount of glucose (although actually the pancreas always overcompensates for the amount of glucose and produces an excess amount of insulin).

Diet has not been adequate to reduce my insulin level – I eat NO sugar, in any form; I eat NO trans fats; I eat NO refined carbohydrates, NO complex carbs… I subsist on green tea, fresh fruit and vegetables, chicken, and fish. With this diet, my insulin test results are still 9 UU/ML or higher. Obviously, my pancreas pumps out excess insulin for a reason I have not yet determined.

My focus has turned to trying to remove insulin already produced. The natural process for insulin should be 1) secretion or synthesis of the hormone, 2) "working career" of managing glucose, by ferrying it into the cells for energy or fat storage, and 3) degradation. There is a specific Insulin-Degrading Enzyme, an atypical zinc-metalloprotease, whose secondary mission is to degrade amyloid beta (the accumulation of which now is implicated in the cause of Alzheimer's). I feel that if I could enhance the synthesis of IDE my insulin level would go down, but I have not yet found the way to increase my IDE.

By the way, concerning your mention of multiple cases of the autoimmune disease in your family, you may be interested in Dr. Noel Rose's opinion of The Common Thread

Noel R. Rose, M.D., Ph.D. Chairman Emeritus, AARDA National Scientific Advisory Board; Professor of Pathology and of Molecular Microbiology and Immunology; Director, Center for Autoimmune Disease Research, Bloomberg School of Public Health, The Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore, MD

What happened about 40 years ago? Well, a number of key discoveries were made--some of them in my own laboratory--which turned that doctrine of self, non-self distinction on its head. We found that there are a number of instances in which the immune response is directed to something in the body of the host itself. It seemed implausible, even contradictory; but, in fact, that was exactly what we found: there are some circumstances where the immune response attacks the body of the host itself. The host may be an animal or it may be a human patient. That is what we call autoimmunity. Autoimmunity is nothing more than the immune response directed to the body of the patient himself or herself. Let me define a second term for you, autoimmune disease. These two terms do not mean exactly the same thing, and the difference may be important to us as we talk about some of these issues a little later this afternoon. Autoimmune disease is a disorder that occurs because of autoimmunity--a disease that is caused by an immune response to the body of the patient himself or herself. Now, in defining autoimmune disease that way, I imply that there is autoimmunity without autoimmune disease. In fact, we now know that autoimmunity is not at all uncommon and that it exists in all of us. Every one of us has some degree of autoimmunity naturally, and it does not seem to do us any harm. It is, in fact, only a minority of cases where autoimmunity actually produces damage in the body, producing disease. So there are really two basic questions that I, as an investigator, and my colleagues in this field need to unravel. First question is: How does autoimmunity arise? What causes the body to produce an immune response to itself? What are the circumstances, what are the mechanisms, what are the triggers for the phenomenon that we call autoimmunity? That's one question. That's a very basic question that involves biology, chemistry, even biophysics. It requires a deep understanding of the immune system. We need to know a lot more about how the body produces immunity reactions. We know a great deal, but there are still enormous voids in our understanding. We must know that in order to understand how the body normally distinguishes self from non-self. The second question is: What are the factors in the autoimmune response that sometimes cause disease? These are the two critical questions that are the topics of basic research. Sometimes the feeling is expressed that basic research is scientists fooling around in the laboratory doing things that are unimportant. Well, there is nothing that is unimportant about these questions. They are absolutely critical. We must understand that if we are ever going to develop effective treatments or, more important, cures for preventing autoimmune disease, we must understand them. Just as we would never have been able to control infectious diseases until we found the bacteria or viruses that cause diseases, so we cannot deal effectively with autoimmune disease until we understand its cause. Now, let's get to the question Mrs. Ladd put to us: Why are autoimmune diseases related? And here I have to give you a little bit of insider information about how medicine is organized in this country.


When medicine grew up in the middle ages, physicians had to divide diseases into various kinds and various categories. The only way they could classify diseases was anatomically, that is, where does the disease occur? Physicians later divided themselves into doctors who were interested in diseases of the lungs, and other doctors who were interested in diseases of the skin, and other doctors were interested in disease of the intestinal tract or the reproductive tract or the urinary tract. Most medicine is still organized on the basis of the anatomy of the disease, on where the disease occurs. You go to a heart specialist (a cardiologist) if you have heart disease, to a neurologist if you have nervous system disease, to a dermatologist if you have a skin disease, and on and on. The medical community organized itself that way because that's all the doctors knew. They didn't know what caused disease, but they knew where it occurred. But starting with Louis Pasteur about a hundred years ago, a change occurred. For the very first time we began to understand why disease occurs--not where it occurs, but why it occurs. And when we speak of why disease occurs, we speak of something else, and that is what we call etiology.
Etiology means cause, why the disease occurs. If we are concerned with curing disease and possibly even preventing disease, the etiology is the most important information. Why have we been able to control so many infectious diseases? Because we now know the bacteria and the viruses and the parasites that cause these diseases, and we can develop antibiotics and other drugs that will specifically attack that organism. Discovering the etiology has allowed medicine to progress to its present state where we can successfully treat and even cure many diseases.
Within the lifetime of most of us, we have ways of effectively treating infectious disease. Until World War II, until antibiotics were introduced, we did not have methods that cured disease. We had treatments that alleviated the symptoms of disease, but we really didn't cure disease. With the introduction of antibiotics--penicillin, streptomycin, and other substances--we now have a way of treating. And that's why it is so important to understand etiology.
Here are a few other groups of diseases which are now defined by their etiology. Allergies are an example. If you have an allergy, it doesn't matter whether it's an allergy of the nose, that is, hay fever, whether it's in the lungs, asthma, or whether it's atopic dermatitis, a skin disease. You may go to an allergist because all of these diseases have the same etiology. They have different anatomies, but they have the same etiology. That's the way progress is being made by bringing together diseases with the same etiology.
Autoimmunity is an etiology: it is a cause of disease. Anatomically, autoimmune disease is very diverse; and that's why we see specialists in so many areas of medicine studying autoimmunity. They may be rheumatologists who are interested in joints; they may be dermatologists who are interested in skin; they may be cardiologists who are interested in the heart; they may be gastroenterologists who are interested in the gastrointestinal tract. But the common etiology for all of these disease--for Crohn's disease of the gut; for lupus of the skin; for rheumatoid arthritis of the joint--the common etiology that brings together all of these diseases is autoimmunity.
A major aim of the American Autoimmune Related Diseases Association is to help us to understand that all of these diseases, diverse as they are, in their anatomical location, in their clinical manifestation, are related because they have the same etiology; they are all caused by autoimmunity. In my opinion, the only way we're going to develop really effective treatments will be to treat the cause of the disease, not the symptoms. The symptoms are late; the symptoms are at the end of the train of events. We want to get on the train at the very beginning.
Now, what are some of the specifics of this relationship? Let me lay out some of the principles that we now understand about the etiology of autoimmune disease.
Unlike some diseases, autoimmune diseases do not generally have a simple, single cause. There are usually two major categories of factors that are involved in causing autoimmune diseases: genetics and environment. Virtually every autoimmune disease combines these two. Let me explain more of what I mean. First, genetics. Genetics is involved in the development of autoimmune disease, but autoimmune diseases are not typical genetic diseases. What is a typical genetic disease? Most of us have heard of sickle cell anemia, and that's a genetic disease. That's a disease in which the victims of the disease have a specific genetic mutation. If you inherit this mutation from one parent, you have sickle cell trait; and if you inherit it from both parents, you have sickle cell disease. We know what the gene is, and we even know a great deal of how that works; so we know the etiology of that disease.
That's not the way genetics works in autoimmune disease. In autoimmune disease, multiple genes are involved; we have genes that collectively increase the vulnerability or susceptibility to autoimmune disease. What is inherited is not a specific gene that causes a specific defect in metabolism; several genes increase vulnerability or susceptibility to autoimmune disease.
How do we know that there is a genetic basis of autoimmune disease? I can cite three kinds of evidence. The first is autoimmune diseases tend to occur in families. If there's one case of autoimmune disease in the family, there's likely to be another case.
However, it is not a particular autoimmune disease; it is generally a tendency to autoimmunity. One family member may have lupus, another family member may have Sjogren's disease, a third member of the family may have rheumatoid arthritis. That's one bit of evidence for genetic involvement, and we've known this for a number of years. If we ask patients when they come to us, "Is there other autoimmune disease in your family?"--and we actually have to mention them because people don't know these are all autoimmune diseases--they will usually say, "Yes, my aunt had thyroid trouble...my grandmother had that disease...my grandmother had Crohn's disease...."
But we call this soft data in science because families share genes and that's some indication of genetics; but families share other things.
So we need to look further. The second thing we do is to look at twins. We compare two kinds of twins. There are twins that are genetically identical, and there are twins that are non-genetically identical. If something is caused by an environmental factor, there should be no difference between identical twins and non-identical twins. If there's a difference, it suggests that genetics plays a role. These studies have been done for a number of autoimmune diseases, and the answer has always come up about the same. Genetic components represent something in the order of half of the risks. In other words, if you have a genetic predisposition to autoimmunity, you may have twice or five times as much chance of developing autoimmunity as someone else--not 100 times, but not zero. So genetics plays an important role.
One group of genetic factors is particularly important. One of the things that immunology has taught us through the years is obvious but needed some kind of physical basis, it is simply that every human being is different from every other human being (unless you have a genetically identical twin). Every person is a little different from everybody else; we know that for certain when we try to transplant tissues, like kidneys or hearts. In general you cannot accept a kidney or heart from someone else unless we dampen your immune response.
There clearly are significant physical differences between different people. And we call the substance that causes that difference histocompatibility complex. We call the genes that provide that difference "major histocompatibility complex genes". Everybody abbreviates that long tongue twister by just saying MHC; and every species has an MHC, a major histocompatibility gene. In a human we call it HLA.
HLA is the major group of genes that distinguishes one human being from another. It is important in transplantation, and we do HLA typing regularly. It's important to us in autoimmunity because susceptibility to autoimmunity is associated with the HLA type. It represents the most important single genetic trait in estimating susceptibility to autoimmune disease.
There are three kinds of information that tell us if autoimmune diseases are genetic. I've mentioned two. One is family clustering; the second is the association with HLA. What's the third?
The third is that autoimmune diseases occur in animals as well as in human beings. With animals we can do the breedings that are necessary.
We can infer the same must be true in humans. In animals the equivalent of HLA determines susceptibility. In animals this trait is actually predictive. In humans we aren't yet at that point because we don't have enough information from humans to say, "Because of your HLA factor you're going to develop an autoimmune disease." We can, however, say that you have a greater likelihood of this happening.
So we're getting to a point where we can almost predict who is more likely or less likely to develop autoimmune disease. Now this, again, is an example of how very basic research on a molecular level or on a genetic molecular level is beginning to pay off in human medicine.
I would like to conclude with the second half of the story. I've said that genetics accounts for about half of the risk that you develop an autoimmune disease.
The other half is the agent in the environment which triggers the process. Unfortunately, we do not know very many of the triggers. We know there are certain drugs that can induce lupus. We know there are certain environmental substances like silica that can induce scleroderma. We suspect that there are certain dietary substances, such as iodine, that can exacerbate thyroid disease. So we're beginning to define the other half of the story, the environmental half. It is going to be, I think, an equally fascinating chapter in the saga of autoimmune disease in the next decade.
So, in summary, that's what autoimmune diseases have in common. That's why we feel very strongly there should be a society like the American Autoimmune Related Diseases Association that brings together all of the research and all of the investigators and all of the physicians as well as all of the patients interested in autoimmune diseases. Let us begin to get to questions of etiology, to get at the root causes of these diseases, rather than being left at the superficial level, that is, treating the symptoms after the disease has had its destructive effects.
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Re: New Member looking for natural care advice

Postby jimmylegs » Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:28 pm

hi m :) i do think testing is the wisest thing to do. it really helps so that you know how far you have to go. as for specific tests, you can ask for 'serum zinc', and 'serum magnesium'. don't let the doc talk you into RBC tests.. yes RBC magnesium is supposed to be a better calibre of test but serum magnesium is pretty telling and comparable to lots of other research. if you would like to take research abstracts to the doc to justify your request, i can link you up to info you can print and take along with you. let me know if you need it.

can you tell me some detail on the forms of zinc and magnesium supplements you chose?

dietary forms are the best foundation, but sometimes supplements are needed at therapeutic levels. for zinc game meats are some of the best choices if you have access. venison in particular. know any hunters that can accommodate a request? a serving or two per week wouldn't go amiss. beef is another option but not your standard corn fed fatty stuff. if you can find grass fed beef the lipid ratios are much more suitable. as for magnesium, for starters see if you can get a nice big cup serving of dark leafy greens (spinach, chard are good ones) into you on a daily basis.

when it comes to vit d3, supplements are available in far higher concentrations than you'd get from food. all the same, try to ensure some natural food sources in addition to sun exposure at the right time of year.

in general, imho science doesn't know enough about nutritional cofactors in whole foods for me to suggest anyone go supplements-only. and along the same lines, i would never suggest that anyone could get away with a crap diet as long as they took the right supplements!
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Re: New Member looking for natural care advice

Postby vesta » Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:41 am

I realize I need to revise slightly my statement that "a neck massage pushing the blood down towards the heart is enough to stop an MS attack for me." Rather it should read " a brief massage releasing the stress in the upper back and shoulders followed by a neck massage pushing the blood down towards the heart is enough to stop an MS attack for me." Thirty seconds will do, a minute would be better. The massages I've requested since I learned of the CCSVI blood circulation theory always begin on the upper back and shoulders and may in fact be the most important. I now realize I inadvertently saved my legs by getting a Shiatsu massage at the Kabuki Hot Springs in San Francisco during my first big attack, and that I "lost" (temporarily) my right arm because of damage to my spinal cord, not my brain.

I am recovering from a flu - the second this winter! - and understand once again how damaging these flus are to my nervous system. The back muscles tense up which must impede the blood/fluid circulation. I was recovering rather quickly with the Oscillococcinum homeopathy when I developed a bladder infection. (Did I have a minor infection which left me susceptible to the virus, or did the virus leave me susceptible to the bacteria? I should have worn a face mask when my husband began to cough.) Anyway the antibiotic I took for the infection anti-doted the homeopathy and I was headed straight to the hospital, my lungs in flames. The side of my "good" left leg began that cold spongy wet feel which means real damage is being done to the myelin sheath/nerves. I asked my husband to give a good back massage (at least a minute, maybe two) and went to bed. The serious MS symptom was gone by next morning.

Again I stopped a major damaging MS attack by releasing tension in the upper back/neck area through a simple pysical manipulation. It does seem incredible, but it is true.

I feel one can figure out one's own technique for releasing the upper back shoulder tension. My father remarked that as a child I was extremely tense, my first MS attack hit the upper spine which tends to re-inforce my belief that childhood stress can actually damage the veins leading to MS blood reflux.

So what to do?

Don't wait if you start getting those real MS symptoms. Get anyone to work your back. If one is under pressure, get a good professional massage, emphasizing the back and shoulders. There are probably vibrating back massage devices one can use every day so that one is not dependent on the presence of another.
(I have found a TENS self acupressure treatment will stop an attack for me, but not everyone can do that.) And it may not be necessary. I'm going to look into self massage devices. It is SO important to ACT IMMEDIATELY.

Get help when possible, but act for yourself now.

While working at the computer, I realize that the shoulders are knotting up AND by looking at the screen, my head is held back which impedes the blood circulation from the brain. So occasionally I bend the head forward and massage my neck with one hand to keep the tension from building up.

I was working on Chapter Three "How I inadvertently saved my legs" when I fell ill. What I have recently learned by reading my medical file and personal journals has only reinforced, if slightly revised, my theories of what is happening to my body, and how to help myself. From what you have written I really think you can do much to help yourself.

Check out the CCSVI thread, for instance GOLD STANDARD TOOLS which gives suggested clinics. Dr Sclafani answers some questions. I'm not in the US and don't intend to seek angioplasty (see angioplasty decision) but I am doubtless much older than you. Sounds like you're on the right track to caring for yourself.

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Re: New Member looking for natural care advice

Postby pushingForward » Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:24 am

Speaking only of needles (I know there will be some push back on taking the ABC drugs here), I have been taking Avonex for about 8 years. The first few injections were very difficult for me, but I got through them. I pretty much dreaded giving my weekly injection for years (and even had to have a few beers to relax - I know, not the best approach, but it is what I did). Anyway, about a year ago, they introduced the Avonex Pen auto-injector. It has made my weekly injections much easier. There is a little pain (very tolerable) sometimes, but the anxiety related to giving myself an injection is pretty much gone.

Again - this is not a recommendation on your course of treatment, just some feedback to help weigh options. BTW, I am a 39 year old male.
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Re: New Member looking for natural care advice

Postby jimmylegs » Fri Mar 29, 2013 3:05 pm

Question vesta - do you know your zinc status?
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Re: New Member looking for natural care advice

Postby vesta » Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:40 am

Hi jimmylegs:
At the moment I don't know my zinc status, but I should be taking 25 mg supplement a day which I've been neglecting. I know in my first healing detox I probably took more. Also, during an infection I was told to increase doses of zinc, calcium/magnesium, collagen C and Cataplex AC, which I didn't do recently and probably should have. I will have to review your info on dietary sources of zinc.
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Re: New Member looking for natural care advice

Postby jimmylegs » Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:03 pm

ok good as long as you know :)
i went over food sources briefly above. i will check my summary file to make sure there are good food source links for everything :)
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Re: New Member looking for natural care advice

Postby vesta » Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:04 am

Hi mccpm
Consider the following information which may solve your body tension, blood reflex problem.
Under CCSVI thread see "When CCSVI fails try AO and/or the Dentist." posted by Rosegirl.

I intend to revise my MS Cure Enigmas.net paper by stating
"in the first instance one should diagnose and treat Body Tension problems - structural, toxic and/or infectious - before launching into angioplasty."
Hope you read this and let us know how you are doing.
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Re: New Member looking for natural care advice

Postby want2bike » Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:42 am

Vesta, you mention having the flu twice this year. Are you aware that some people use high doses of vitamin D to fight the flu? Do you know your vitamin D level? Hope you didn't get the flu shot.

http://www.naturalnews.com/029760_vitam ... uenza.html
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Re: New Member looking for natural care advice

Postby vesta » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:01 am

Hello want2bike :
Thanks for the idea. My message yesterday didn’t go through so I’ll try again. Yes, I do take Vit D3 (100,000 units once a month prescribed by a French Dr.) I had been lax with supplements, diet, etc Sometimes I just get tired of having to be so careful. Actually, I think my resistance was down because I had been grieving over a loss since last summer. The Kinesiologist told me to buck up and get over it (not in those words of course.) He was right, he broke the “spell” and since the visit over 2 weeks ago I’ve been slowly recovering, but I’m still so weak. It’s frightening to lose strength in my legs, I hope I can recover. It is a pain having to work at keeping the body going when it should just work naturally.
No, I didn't get a flu shot, I avoid vaccinations like the plague.
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Re: New Member looking for natural care advice

Postby want2bike » Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:31 pm

You might want to get your vitamin D level check to make sure you have a good level. I found mine to be low even though I follow a healthy diet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--NqqB2nhBE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhUuf2QZd_E
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Re: New Member looking for natural care advice

Postby mccpm » Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:13 pm

Hello all. Thanks so much for all of your great input. Some news on my side. Since we last talked I have had some worsening. My Ulhofts/Puflrich is about the same but the last two days I have had bad vertigo. I feel like I have had too much to drink. My neuro is prescribing me a 3 day steroid course. I think it is needed as I have narrowly avoided a few falls. The best part (sarcasm) is I started a new job today which was a great reduction in my daily stress level but now I am facing the potential embarrassment of a wipeout in the office. I'm pretty bummed out about the whole thing. I was 5 years ok but seemed to have veered a little off course. I know I was pushing very hard to get a new job and in the back of my head I thought I was going to suffer some consequences. Anyway, have any of you done the 3 day steroid load? Interested to know the results and side effects. Also I am supposed to take a trip overseas next week for my new job. I am wondering how this all might play out. I am also reconsidering my Copaxone hold off and now I think I will start it up. This vertigo is terrible. Standing next to my new boss at the urinal and praying I didn't wipe out was awkward to say the least... maybe one day I will look back on it and laugh but not cool when you are going through it!

Any inputs are greatly appreciated.
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Re: New Member looking for natural care advice

Postby vesta » Sun May 05, 2013 10:27 am

How a Shiatsu Massage saved my legs.
My first known MS attack paralysed my right arm. My HMO Neurologist said that mine was an unusual case and asked if I would come to be examined by a renowned British Neurologist who would be giving a Master Class at the Hospital. Dr. Christopher Pallis struck me as gruff and arrogant. He stood at the head of a classroom of white coated Doctors before a chalk board and asked
me to sit on a small grey folding chair. He asked me to perform certain
manipulations with my arms and hands after which he asked me to remove my boots
to continue the examination of my legs and feet. He then drew on the board a tube like
structure, making a partial “bite” in it, explaining that this was an unusual
case since the lesions didn’t go all the way through as evidenced by the fact
that the right leg was not affected like the right arm/hand. (I reflected that If
they had, I would have been unable to walk. I can’t recall his exact words.) He
then turned towards me and very assertively said that I would entirely recover
save for some residual clumsiness in my right hand. Just as assertively I
insisted “When?”which caused the class to chuckle. “In a few months” he answered
before abruptly dismissing me.

I left somewhat offended and discouraged. On
arriving at the hospital I must have been feeling reasonably well since I had
taken the bus to get there. On leaving I felt much worse and as I walked home from the bus
stop my legs were heavy as though I was pushing through 3 feet of water.
Translation, the encounter with Dr Pallis must have stressed me and the blood
must have been backing up into my Central Nervous System. I felt I had done my Neurologist a favour with no real benefit to myself.

Today, 33 years later, I can see the benefit.
I am proud to have been examined by a world famous Neurologist, especially since
I agree generally with his political values (after a look at his obituary). And I’m
convinced his analysis was the right one. My Neurologist wrote that Dr. Pallis thought I
had a spinal cord lesion (which is what he must have drawn on the board.) The HMO doctors
thought it was a Left parietal white ? (brainstem ?). The
consensus was that MS was likely, though a parainfection process was still
possible. (The MRI Head 2 Sequences of August 24, 1990 showed “the brainstem and cerebellum appear to be spared.”)

How is it that the “attack”didn’t “eat through” the entire spinal
cord which would have left me unable to walk? My answer. The Shiatsu massage of 38 days earlier.

My notes show that when I went to the
Emergency room on May 2 my upper spine burned fiercely. After the massage on May 9 I felt
a total relief, even though the steam bath/sauna heat aggravated symptoms for a few days. The
massage must have stopped the blood reflux onto the spinal cord. By May 14, even
though I had undergone a CAT scan and EEG (which normally would have worsened my
condition) I was feeling much better.

The lesson of Chapter 3 is that I inadvertently saved my legs by
getting a Shiatsu massage. I believe any deep tissue massage would have done. If I had
avoided the heat of the steam bath and sauna, I could have avoided the temporary
nervous system aggravation. (All massages release toxins from the muscles so one generally is tired days following.) My Neurologist was puzzled, he was getting ready to
launch me into steroid treatment, but then the whole process stopped. No one
asked if I had done anything to arrive at this. Too bad Dr. Pallis didn’t think to ask.
I now believe at the first onset of MS symptoms one should get a massage. Why not? I can’t see any possible harm, and the benefits may be beyond anyone’s expectations.
One final comment. I remember my father being worried about the tension in my upper back when I was 9 years old. Did that extreme tension prepare the terrain for my first big crisis? This tends to confirm my theory (for me anyway) that childhood stress damages the veins.

(Why I think you should try massage therapy. How are you doing?)

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