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Postby MrT » Wed May 18, 2005 11:41 am

I was wondering how many people are taking NAC ? I read the story on this drug a week or so ago and have purchased this. What would be a suitable dose? Any reasons not to take this?
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NAC - also looking for answers

Postby ljm » Wed May 18, 2005 12:51 pm


I was also interested in NAC. I had read a news release showing clinical trial of NAC in conjunction with Copaxone at Jewish General Hospital in Montreal (http://www.sciencesdelavie-montreal.com ... iche/17639)

I did phone the lead investigator, Dr. Schipper, who is a neurologist as well as being listed in release as a specialist in antioxidants. Schipper was sort of in a rush and called me back on my cell when I didn't have notes at hand. So read this with caution.

Schipper said he had reviewed a range of antioxidants to use in his studies and picked NAC because
(1) it had already shown some MS promise in the mouse studies
(2) it is one of few antioxidants that can be shown to cross the BBB
(3) it had already been shown effective in some neurological conditions (a rare form of childhood epilepsy, I couldn't get down name) and
(4) the side effects are negligible

He said alpha lipoic acid had been on his short list but it was lacking the mouse studies and there was some question in his mind whether it crosses the BBB.

He said his study is using a Copaxone/NAC combination because he went the rounds of several drug companies and Teva showed interest and funded the trial.

He originally wanted to do a trial testing NAC/Alone as well as NAC/Copaxone, but it would take too many patients. He's hoping if this trial proves effective he can do a phase III that will determine impact of NAC on its own.

WIth respect to dosage, he is administering 5 g a day in 2 dosages of 2500 mg.

I asked if there was any possible interaction of NAC with other drugs, or possible effects of taking NAC with another antioxident such as alpha lipoic acid. He was not really clear on the answer to this, but pointed out, that if I was concerned one of the best natural sources of NAC is tomatoes (cooked, not raw) as well as pomegranate juice.

FYI I can get pure pomegranate juice at local grocery store and coincidentally had been drinking it regularly ever since having an incredible pomegranate martini at Christmas.

Also FYI I have started to add a 500 mg tablet of NAC to my supplements but I am would be concerned about going up to 2500 mg.

I'm anxious to hear if anyone else has any information or for example can tell me whether it would be better taking NAC with full-range amino acid supplement etc.

I'm also anxious to hear just how everyone handles all this disparate information. Do you just decide to pick a few therapies that don't seem to have much potential for collision and hope for the best? Why, for example, does someone decide to take NAC, and another decides to try Inosine or Statins?

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Postby Arcee » Wed May 18, 2005 1:21 pm


Thanks for posting such detailed and interesting information. The supplements that I use were recommended by an integrative/holistic physician I see. I believe most of her recommendations are similar to what Perlmutter writes about in the"The Better Brain Book." The supplements include NAC, alpha lipoic acid, B12, fish oil among others. She is not concerned about taking them together, and tries to align them with what my body needs based on various blood and urine tests.

To answer one of your questions more directly, I have stayed away from statins as I know that for a lot of people they can cause side effects (liver issues, neuropathic pain). For anti-immflamatory bang, I take turmeric.

I was going to ask her about NAC dosage anyway, but after your email, I definitely will and will report back.

- Arcee
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Postby MrT » Wed May 18, 2005 1:25 pm

ljm and Arcee,

Thanks for the great info. I think I will start with 2 of my pills a day which is 1500 mg. I will be most interested to see what your holistic physician has to say about dosing Arcee.
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Postby ljm » Wed May 18, 2005 9:05 pm


It would be great if you could get dosage advice from your integrative physician (also, whether there is a limit to how long you can safely take NAC).

On another question. Could I ask about the integrative physician, is that someone who is both a traditionally and alternatively trained practitioner? How did you find her, and did you find that she knew quite a lot about MS/related therapies?

If you prefer you could pm me, I would appreciate very much.

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Postby Arcee » Thu May 19, 2005 6:39 am

Ljm, MrT -

I will be seeing this physician in a couple of weeks and will definitely ask the NAC questions and post the responses. Right now, I take 500 mg per day.

I am happy to write more about my experience with her, and have posted a bit in the past. She is a traditionally trained MD who really focuses on thinkgs like diet, supplements, and tailoring treatments to individuals. Kind of shame some would call that alternative!

I went looking for her because I was frustrated with the traditional neuros I saw last spring when I was diagnosed. I just couldn't believe that the things that we put into our body couldn't effect the experience of this disease in some manor. I asked around for recommendations from people I thought might know of someone, for example, I asked my acupuncturist. Everyone I asked all named this same doctor.

She does have a lot of experience with patients with MS, but she has a general family practice. She won me over from the start because the first thing she asked me was if I had been tested for Lyme because she knew from the form I filled out that I have a dog that I take out into the woods. (No one else had asked.) She also said that we would work on my diet and supplements "to protect my brain." Again, no one else had framed my treatment in this way which I found vitally important. And then she told me eliminate trans fats because they are demyleniating. Seems pretty important.

I like that she tailors supplements and doses to me, and we continually monitor where things are at. So far, no relapses and my MRIs were better. Random pattern of MS or are the supplements and diet changes causal? I'd like to think the latter, but of course it's hard to prove.

I should point out that I do work with a neuro and was taking Tysabri because I can't take the other meds. Not sure what I am going to do in that regard now. I view it all as complementary.

Hope this helps. I think it's great that we can share this kind of information. I was really pleased to read about the phonecall with the NAC researcher! I'm going to try that the next time I see something of interest.

- Arcee
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Postby Shayk » Thu May 19, 2005 2:16 pm


Arcee, you said
Kind of shame some would call that alternative!

I quite agree with you even though I used the word "alternative" in a recent post when perhaps for that situation "complementary" would have been better. Your approach is commendable in my opinion.

My efforts to seek balanced hormone levels utilizing bioidentical hormones and saliva testing to help manage MS are repeatedly labeled locally as "voodoo medicine" :roll:. I appreciate the information you've shared.

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Postby Arcee » Tue Jun 14, 2005 7:32 am

Hi All -

Wanted to share some responses I got from my holistic doctor. I told her about the NAC study. She said that both NAC and alpha lipoic acid cross the blood brain barrier. She feels they work synergistically (she may not have used this precise word but it was my understanding of what she said) and therefore since I am taking both, she wouldn't want me to increase the NAC dosage to the level in the study. We decided I should take 1000 per day, and we did not set a deadline. I'll see her again in a couple of months and try and clarify if there is a timeframe for NAC.

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Postby CureOrBust » Tue Sep 20, 2005 2:56 am

hi all,

This thread is probably a little on the cold side, however.

I have purchased NAC (N-Acetyl Cysteine), but am hesitant to take it as on the side of the bottle it says "NAC Helps the body synthesize Glutathione" and at the URL http://www.mercola.com/2004/may/1/glutamine.htm and many I have read before, glutamine is considered bad for MS.

I know its just a name, but I havnt seen any explicit text that differentiates between "Glutathione" and "glutamate". Does anyone have a clear idea or URL that does explicitly differentiate these two?
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Hope this helps

Postby Melody » Tue Sep 20, 2005 4:05 am

<shortened url>
One of the many ways excitotoxins damage neurons is to prevent the intracellular formation of glutathione, one of the most important cellular antioxidants. The combination of E and Idebenone provided complete antioxidant neuronal protection in spite of extremely low glutathione levels caused by glutamate excitotoxic action (33,34). Idebenone has also shown clinical effectiveness in treating various forms of stroke and cerebrovascular dementia, known to be caused by excitotoxic damage (38).

<shortened url>

Glutamate is also included in parenteral nutrition and is the major amino acid in certain protein-rich foods, such as eggs. Glutamate is a widely used flavoring agent, best known in the form of its sodium salt, monosodium glutamate (MSG). Harmful effects of localized high concentrations of glutamate in certain neurological disease conditions, such as multiple sclerosis and ALS, have been mentioned in recent literature. This has raised concerns about the safety of administering glutamine (which can be converted to glutamate), consuming foods with added glutamate, or including glutamate in the parenteral nutrition for such patients. In addition, there has been much concern expressed about possible allergic, or other reactions, to glutamate used as a flavoring agent. Therefore, it is valuable to understand the nature of its actions, its relationship to glutamine used as a supplement, and the current status of the relevant research.

Glutamine is the most abundant of the amino acids in the human body. Its main storage site is in the musculature, where about 60% of all the unbound amino acids are glutamine (glutamine makes up a smaller percentage of muscle protein, the main bound form). Glutamine has been called a "conditionally essential" nutrient (1-6), because it is non-essential in normal situations (manufactured by the body in adequate quantities; not required in the diet), but in severe illness or injury becomes insufficient (there is then a need for supplementation from the diet or other sources).
<shortened url>

Multiple Sclerosis and Amino Acids
As the essential building blocks of protein for the body, amino acids are receiving increasing attention for the important metabolic role they play in modulating health and disease. Recent studies have uncovered several crucial amino acid imbalances in patients with MS that may shed new light on how the disease develops and progresses.

Relapses of MS are associated with periods of increased stress, and this stress is believed to increase the body's metabolic need for the amino acid tryptophan, a precursor to the crucial brain neurochemicals such as serotonin, melatonin and dopamine. One researcher has linked lower availability of tryptophan in the blood in MS patients with greater susceptibility to stress, and hence, increased vulnerability to progression of MS.1 Several amino acids play crucial anti-inflammatory anti-oxidant roles in the body, such as cysteine, glutathione, and taurine, which may safeguard against the neurodegeneration in MS.

Patients with multiple sclerosis and other demyelinating conditions also commonly show critical deficiency of vitamin B12, signaled by high levels of homocysteine, which may exacerbate symptoms and/or hinder recovery.2,3 Westall and colleagues reported "extensive amino acid abnormalities" in MS patients. They noted that relapses of MS are preceded by gradual rises of glutamate, a month or two before each relapse, with levels peaking during the relapse and declining slowly thereafter.4 Other amino acid abnormalities reported in MS patients include elevated glutamine, asparagine, glycine, alanine and arginine.5,6

Underscoring the significance of amino acids in MS disease conditions are numerous clinical trials that show treatments with copolymers of amino acids (e.g. glutamic acid, lysine, alanine, and tyrosine) greatly reducing relapses in MS patients, without incurring serious side effects.7,8

Great Smokies' Amino Acids Analysis is the most comprehensive and sensitive assay available for urine or plasma analytes. Commentary is thorough and provides clear guidelines for possible treatment interventions.

Related Information: Multiple Sclerosis and Oxidative Stress

<shortened url>
John was diagnosed Jan 2005. On lipitor 20mg .On Copaxone since July 4,2005. Vitamin D3 2000iu-4000iu (depending on sunshine months)June 10 2005(RX::Dr. O'Connor) Omega 3 as well Turmeric since April 2005. Q10 60mg. 1500mg liquid Glucosamine Nov 2005.
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Postby Melody » Tue Sep 20, 2005 4:58 am

CureOrBust wrote:hi all,

I have purchased NAC (N-Acetyl Cysteine), but am hesitant to take it as on the side of the bottle it says "NAC Helps the body synthesize Glutathione" and at the URL http://www.mercola.com/2004/may/1/glutamine.htm and many I have read before, glutamine is considered bad for MS.

I have the gut feeling from reading up on this that this is likely the most important difference:::

One of the many ways excitotoxins damage neurons is to prevent the intracellular formation of glutathione, one of the most important cellular antioxidants. The combination of E and Idebenone provided complete antioxidant neuronal protection in spite of extremely low glutathione levels caused by glutamate excitotoxic action

<shortened url>

What is your opinion????
John was diagnosed Jan 2005. On lipitor 20mg .On Copaxone since July 4,2005. Vitamin D3 2000iu-4000iu (depending on sunshine months)June 10 2005(RX::Dr. O'Connor) Omega 3 as well Turmeric since April 2005. Q10 60mg. 1500mg liquid Glucosamine Nov 2005.
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This explains the difference rather well I believe

Postby Melody » Tue Sep 20, 2005 5:12 am

Neurological Inflammation:
An Appoach to Reversing the Process

http://www.gordonresearch.com/autism_ar ... nflammatio

Dr. Amy A. Yasko

I believe that knowledge is power, and the more you know the more
control you have over your condition. One of my goals is to share my
knowledge, observations and experience so that others might have the
tools they need to aid in their own healing process. Individuals can
then apply this knowledge to first halt the progression of
neurological inflammation and then begin the journey of reversing the
symptoms. The standards that I set for improvement are high. I am not
content that an individual is simply doing better than they were
before working with me, I expect that to occur. I have not yet
reached a ceiling with any of the types of neurological cases that I
work with including ALS, SLE, Parkinson's, MS, Alzheimer's,
Myasthenia gravis and autism. What I mean by this is that the people
I work with continue to improve without reaching a plateau. I work
with an individual who has a form of ALS. Over the past 2 years he
has continued to reverse his disease and to progress steadily. This
is what I expect to see from all of the individuals that I work with.

The Program

The program that we use at Holistic Health Consultants has three
basic phases:

First, I find that it is critical to remove excitotoxin triggers from
the diet. This simply involves reading labels and closely monitoring
food and supplement intake to avoid excitotoxins. Excitotoxins are
neurotransmitters such as glutamate or aspartate that can excite the
nerves to death when their levels are not regulated properly. Foods
or supplements that contain excitotoxins include MSG (monosodium
glutamate), glutamic acid, glutamine, nutrasweet, aspartate,
aspartame, and cysteine. Mercury and aluminum can also serve to
trigger glutamate release.

Next, it is important to stop the inflammatory process created by the
excitotxin triggers. Excess excitotoxins cause an imbalance in the
flow of calcium, which leads to activation of a complex inflammatory
cascade, release of inflammatory mediators and ultimately causes the
death of neurons. Halting this inflammatory cascade is achieved with
a number of supplements known to mitigate inflammatory mediators.

Finally, the third stage is to repair the damage, generate new
neurons, and support the liver. This is accomplished with a number of
supplements, which serve as antioxidants as well as to help increase
glutathione levels, restore liver function, promote nerve growth,
restore vitamin K levels, decrease glutamate levels, and balance GABA

The number of supplements utilized varies from approximately 5 to 50
or more, depending on the severity and the number of the imbalances
in each individual. The systems or imbalances that may require
supplementation include the pancreas, the intestinal tract, excessive
acid production in the stomach, the liver, hormonal imbalances,
thyroid, adrenals, and neurotransmitter imbalances among others. This
may seem like a lot of supplements, and in some cases it is. However,
what we are attempting to accomplish is the reversal of a lifetime of
accumulated damage. Nerve damage is a cumulative process. By the time
an individual consults with me, more than 50% of their neurons may
have damaged to the point that it is causing obvious neurological
symptoms. It takes time and commitment in order to halt and reverse
this process. How long does it take to grow a new neuron ? No one
really knows. What I do know is that when I have an individual who
commits to their program and stays with it, together we are able to
acheive incredible results.


Glutamate is the main excitatory neurotransmitter in the body. It is
essential for learning and for both short-term and long-term memory.
It is also the precursor to the inhibitory neurotransmitter, GABA.
GABA is a calming neurotransmitter, and is essential for
speech.Problems occur if the normal process of regulation of
glutamate malfunctions and if toxic levels of this excitatory
neurotransmitter build up in the synaptic junctions. The brain
requires sufficient levels of oxygen and energy to remove excess
glutamate. However, glutamate release leads to the release of
insulin, which results in decreased glucose levels. The amount of
glucose in the brain regulates the removal of excess glutamate from
the synapses. Therefore, a drop in blood glucose disrupts this
removal process and allows the build up of toxic glutamate. In fact,
conditions of hypoglycemia, or low calorie/starvation conditions
induce the release of glutamate and reduce the ability to remove
excess levels of glutamate from the brain. This excess glutamate
depletes glutathione. Glutathione is one of the most powerful
antioxidants found in the body and helps to protect neurons from
damage. Glutatione depletion consequently leads to the death of
additional neurons.

Glutamate has six different types of receptors to which it can bind
in the brain. One of these receptors, the NMDA receptors, is tied to
calcium transport as its mode of action. In the case of the NMDA
receptors, the release of excess glutamate triggers an inflammatory
cascade that results in the death of neurons by the major influx of
calcium into the nerve until it results in neural cell death. Normal
levels of calcium result in normal neuron functioning. However,
excessive levels of calcium make it impossible for the neuron to
rest; the neuron continues to fire without stopping, causing the
release of inflammatory mediators, the release of more glutamate,
thus resulting in more calcium influx. The high intracellular levels
of calcium also lead to high levels of nitric oxide and
peroxynitrite, causing damage to the energy producing apparatus of
the cells. Magnesium is able to modulate the calcium flow, as is
zinc. However, zinc is a double-edged sword as it is also able to
activate glutamate release via the non-NMDA glutamate receptors.

Although these receptors are called "glutamate receptors", any of the
excitatory amino acids are able to bind to the receptors and cause
excitotoxin damage. The toxic potential of these excitatory amino
acids has been suggested to be proportional to their ability to
excite neurons. These excitatory amino acids include glutamate,
aspartate, and to a lesser extent, cysteine and homocysteine.

Glutamate and aspartate are common as food additives as well as
naturally occurring components of a large number of foods. In cells,
glutamate and aspartate can be synthesized from each other. The two
main food additives that are sources for excitotoxins are MSG
(monosodium glutamate) and aspartame (nutrasweet). High levels of
glutamate and aspartate are found naturally in protein rich foods,
including very high levels in wheat gluten, and milk casein. While
these amino acids are necessary for normal brain function, excess
amounts of them create a wide range of bodily damage.

Body systems that have been affected by glutamate toxicity include
effects on white blood cells (elevations in the levels of
eosinophils,), effects on blood vessels (causing migraines and
reduced regulation of blood pressure), and inhibition of the
conversion of glutamate to GABA. The sites in the brain that have
been reported to be damaged by excitotoxins include the hypothalamus,
the hippocampal neurons, and the Purkinje neurons, among others.

Excess levels of glutamate have been definitely implicated in a range
of neurodegenerative diseases, including Alzheimer's disease,
Parkinson's disease, Huntington's chorea, stroke, Multiple sclerosis,
and ALS. In the case of autism, irregularities related to glutamate
have been observed.

Liver Health

The liver is probably one of the most important organs in the body
when it comes to health. The liver is the site for carbohydrate, fat
and protein metabolism, storage of vitamins and minerals, and
regulatory mechanisms for blood sugar and hormone levels. Bile
production, which is necessary for elimination reactions, also takes
place in the liver. In addition, and perhaps most importantly, the
liver is the site for detoxification of the body. A central problem
in neurological inflammation is the function and health of the liver.
If the liver is healthy, it can make sufficient enzymes for the
efficient detoxification of the body. The liver contains high levels
of enzymes, and enzyme systems that are required for detoxification

In addition to high levels of excitatory amino acids, low levels of
glutathione have been associated with a number of neurodegenerative
disorders. The liver contains one of the highest levels of
glutathione. Glutathione is one of the most powerful antioxidants
found in the body. Glutathione is essential for both the phase I and
phase II detoxification systems of the liver. Phenol-
sulphotransferase (PST) is another sulfur- containing enzyme that
detoxifies leftover hormones and toxic molecules, as well as food
dyes and chemicals. High extracellular levels of the excitotoxin
glutamate cause the extrusion of intracellular cysteine- resulting in
glutathione depletion. Low levels of magnesium also result in
decreased levels of glutathione, as does infection or inflammation
that cause elevations in the inflammatory mediator TNF alpha.


Another issue with neurological inflammation are imbalances between
glutamate and GABA. While glutamate stimulates neurotransmission and
can excite the nerves to death, GABA is the calming neurotransmitter.
GABA is involved in social ability, controlling anxiety, and is
essential for speech. GABA neurons damp the propagation of sounds so
that a distinction can be made between the onset of a sound and
background noise. (GABA is often used to help restore speech in
individuals who have suffered strokes.) The amino acid taurine
(another sulfur containing amino acid) is itself involved in
neurotransmission, and also helps to elevate the level of GABA.
Taurine levels would also be depleted under conditions of low
sulfation. Normally, excess levels of the excitotoxin glutamate can
convert to GABA. There seems to be a disconnect in this process for
individuals with neurological inflammation so that the excitatory
neurotransmission is high and the calming neurotransmission is low,
where again, one sees the need for sulfur containing proteins or
amino acids in this process. The enzyme that converts glutamate into
GABA is located in the pancreas.

This implicates the GI tract in the process of neurological

GI Tract

In an ideal situation, following the digestion of food in the stomach
by hydrochloric acid , the HCL is dumped into the small intestine,
stimulating the release of several proteins. These include gastric
inhibitory peptide (GIP), secretin, and cholecystokinin (CCK). GIP
slows the release of acid into the intestinal tract, secretin
stimulates the pancreas to release bicarbonate to neutralize the
acid, and CCK stimulates the gall bladder to release the bile (made
by the liver) into the intestines to neutralize the acid and help
digest fats. If, however, the pancreas and the liver are in a
weakened state, this ideal situation will not occur. Instead, the HCL
is still dumped into the small intestine; however, these three
proteins will not be released properly. This results in a situation
where the intestinal tract will become more acidic due to lack of
released bile, and result in an environment that is more conducive to
growth of yeast, E.coli, and streptococcus, rather than normal
intestinal flora. In addition, there will be inadequate digestion of
fats, consequently a decrease in absorption of fat-soluble nutrients
(i.e.vitamins A, D, and K), and a sub-optimal amount of secretin and
CCK to trigger communication with the brain. Decreased levels of CCK
in the brain are correlated with anxiety and panic.

Similar to CCK, the hormone secretin is found in the brain as well as
the GI tract. Secretin has been shown to cross the blood/brain
barrier. It is postulated that secretin that crosses over into the
brain as well as secretin that is released by Purkinje cells in the
brain may regulate cells nearby to produce GABA.

Neuropeptide Y is another peptide that is abundant in both the brain
and the GI tract. In the brain, it is involved in regulation of
appetite, anxiety and blood pressure. In the GI tract, Neuropeptide Y
is involved in the regulation of pancreatic secretions and gut
motility. Neuropeptide Y has been reported to suppress glutamate and
antagonize the effects of glutamate.


While I formulate and suggest a specific supplementation plan that
reflects the profile of a particular individual, there are some
universal generalities that apply to any neurological supplementation

A really good general supplement that covers the vitamins, minerals
and is high in antioxidant supplements will lay the groundwork for
the rest of the more specialized supplements. I do not like iron in
supplements as iron can exacerbate neurological inflammation. Iron is
also necessary for virulence of many bacteria, including
streptococci, so limiting iron is useful in limiting bacterial
infection, which could trigger additional inflammation.

Individuals should get more sulfur/glutathione into the system in as
many healthy ways as possible. While glutathione cannot be taken
orally, it can be taken transdermally and sublingually. Also there
are a number of supplements which will boost glutathione levels,
these include: milk thistle, alpha lipoic acid, N-acetyl-
cysteine/vitamin C, MSM, and rosemary among others. While glutamate
(or glutamic acid or glutamine) and cysteine are precursors in the
formation of glutathione, they are also excitotoxins and will trigger
more inflammation in the brain; therefore it is best not to use those
items directly as supplements to boost glutathione levels.
Foods/supplements that are high in sulfur include garlic, broccoli,
onions, and quercetin. Reduced glutathione is reportedly the more
potent form of glutathione; NADH can be used as a supplement to help
recycle reduced glutathione.

If the liver is healthy it can make sufficient glutathione, which is
one of the most important antioxidants in the body. The liver is also
critical as it is the site of detoxification of waste products for
the body. Anything that makes the liver healthier will help; this
would include some of the supplements already mentioned such as milk
thistle, carnitine, NAC, dandelion (also high in vitamin A), as well
as SAMe and B vitamins.

Individuals should consider supplements to help to detoxify the
excess glutamate in the system. These would include branched chain
amino acids, pycnogenol, and grape seed extract. Magnesium is
critical as it regulates the excess calcium from flowing into the
nerves and killing them. Epsom salt baths (magnesium sulfate) are
useful particularly if the bathing water is high in chloride and
fluoride. Chloride blocks the action of sulfur in the body. Limited
amounts of zinc and calcium are fine, but too much will increase
nerve damage.

Supplements that add energy (oxygen and ATP) to the brain will help
it to detoxify the inflammatory reactions caused by excess glutamate
and heavy metals, which trigger glutamate release. These supplements
include ginkgo, vinpocetine, NADH, CoQ10 and carnitine. Carnitine
actually helps to increase the energy in the mitochondria, which are
the energy producing organelles inside each cell. Carnitine is also
useful in repairing liver damage.

B vitamins are crucial for nerve health. They also help to form the
sulfur containing amino acids. A really good B complex is important.
In addition B12 can be taken sublingually so that it is not degraded
in the stomach. B12 helps with energy as well as to repair nerves. It
is important to take B vitamins as a complex, as it has been shown
that taking a single B vitamin will deplete the levels of the other B
vitamin's and this occurs in a dose dependent fashion. For example, a
central inflammatory mediator in other neurological inflammation is
homocysteine. Lack of particular B's will increase the homocysteine
levels in the blood.

Finally, in individuals where chronic yeast or fungal infection is
evident, it is important to restore the normal functioning of the
intestinal tract. Supplement with a really good source of vitamin K,
agents to limit yeast formation (which occurs as a result of lack of
normal flora) and digestive enzymes. Supplements that will help with
digestion and yeast overgrowth include lactoferrin, digestive
enzymes, and probiotics.

Supplement Quality

One place where individuals can have difficulties with a supplement
plan is the source/quality of the supplements and vitamins they are
using. I have heard people say "Oh, I've tried that before, it
doesn't work", only to find that when they use a high quality version
of that same supplement, it does in fact make a difference for them.
Alternatively, I have had individuals who were following one of my
suggested supplement plans with great success, only to find that they
were not doing as well when they switched to another brand of
supplement, or one that was not stored properly. It is therefore
important to consider "supplement quality" as an aspect of any
nutritional plan. Supplements are not regulated. As a result
supplement quality can vary greatly. Also, supplements can go off or
spoil (similar to fresh produce) if they are not stored or shipped
properly. Consequently, it is not simply a matter of supplement
brand, it is also important to consider other factors, such as how it
was stored (in a hot stockroom ?), how long it's been sitting on the
shelf and how it was shipped.

We did not set out with the intention of selling supplements.
However, we have found that not all supplements are made under the
same high standards that we subscribe to. Our primary goal at
Holistic Health Consultants has always been helping you to get well.
Over time we have found that it is important for you to use the
proper tools to take charge of your health. One of these tools
includes the use of supplements. In my practice we order fresh
supplements weekly, as if it were fresh produce, we only carry
certain brands, and I have many of the supplements formulated
especially for me. I have personally researched and hand picked each
and every supplement we carry to ensure that you receive the best
products available to attain peak physical and mental well being.

Sources of Excitotoxins

Definite Sources of MSG

Hydrolyzed ProteinSodium Caseinate or Calcium Caseinate
Autolyzed Yeast or Yeast Extract
Hydrolyzed Oat Flour
Glutamic acid
Monosodium glutamate
Possible sources of MSG

Textured Protein
Carrageenan or Vegetable Gum
Seasonings or Spices
Flavorings or Natural Flavorings
Chicken, Beef, Pork, Smoke Flavorings
Bouillon, Broth or Stock
Barley Malt, Malt Extract, Malt Flavoring
Whey Protein, Whey Protein Isolate or Concentrate
Soy Protein, Soy Protein Isolate or Concentrate
Soy Sauce or Extract
Other sources of MSG

MSG is found in most of the food prepared by major fast-food chains.

Binders and fillers for medications, nutrients, and supplements, both
prescription and non-prescription, and some fluids administered
intravenously in hospitals, may contain MSG.

According to the manufacturer, Varivax-Merck chicken pox vaccine
(Varicella Virus Live), contains L-monosodium glutamate and
hydrolyzed gelatin both of which contain processed free glutamic acid

MSG is used as a plant "growth enhancer" (AuxiGro) that is sprayed on
growing crops. AuxiGro Plant Metabolic Primer contains 29.2% by
weight, pharmaceutical grade, L-glutamic acid.

The most common source of MSG is molasses or sugar beet or cane.

MSG and Aspartame(nutrasweet) are found in everything from soups,
sauces, and juice to frozen entrees, candy, cigarettes, and anything
with seasonings (e.g., potato chips, meat, ice cream).

Sources of Aspartate, aspartame, aspartic acid

Aspartic acid, found in aspartame (NutraSweet) ordinarily causes MSG
type reactions in MSG sensitive people.

Aspartame (Nutrasweet), aspartic acid,aspartate are used to sweeten
many prepared foods, as a tabletop sweetener, sources include:

cocoa mix, topping mix
yogurt-type products
shake mix
gelatin mix
instant breakfast mix
frozen novelties
milk flavor additives
wine coolers
chewable multivitamins
carbonated soft drinks
fruit syrups
powdered soft drinks
puddings and pie fillings
fruit juice drinks
instant coffee and tea mixes
refrigerated tea
ready-to-eat gelatin
chewing gum
frozen desserts
refrigerated flavored milk beverages
breath mints
over-the-counter pharmaceuticals
fruit spreads & toppings
Free and Bound Glutamate in Natural Products

Glutamate can be found in two forms: The "bound" form is linked with
other amino acids to form proteins, whereas the "free" form is not
linked to other amino acids. Glutamate occurs naturally in protein-
containing foods; the level of glutamate in food varies greatly, but
is high in foods such as tomatoes, cheese (particularly parmesan
cheese), milk, mushrooms, fish, peas and many vegetables. All plants
contain large amounts of glutamate.

Food Item Free Glutamic
(mg/100g) Free Aspartic
Tomato 140.0 35.0
Fresh tomato juice 260.0 60.0
Processed tomato juice 230.0 60.0
Grapefruit, white meat 11.5 87.1
Grapefruit juice 18.6 130.0
Orange juice 21.0 89.0
Nectarine, fruit 9.0 200.0
Peach juice 32.0 212.0
Plum, yellow fruit 7.9 185.0
Prunes (California) 14.4 185.5
Prunes, dry 18.6 518.4
Grape, red Malaga 184.0 12
Grape juice 258.0 16.8
Strawberry 44.4 60.1
Potato 102.0 -
Broccoli 176.0 40.0
Parmesan Cheese 1,200.0 -
Gruyere Cheese 1,050.0 60.0
Mushroom (Psalliota campestris) 180.0 30.0

From: Giacometti, T. 1979. Free and bound glutamate in natural
products, pp. 25-34. In, Filer, L.J., Jr. et al. (eds.), Glutamic
Acid: Advances in Biochemistry and Physiology, Raven Press, New York,

Food Item Bound Glutamate
Parmesan Cheese 9,847
Eggs 1,583
Chicken 3,309
Duck 3,636
Beef 2,846
Pork 2,325
Cod 2,101
Mackerel 2,382
Salmon 2,216
Peas 5,583
Corn 1,765

Food Item Glutamate
(mg/g N) Aspartate
(mg/g N)
Potato 639 775
Sweet Potato 541 825
Beet 946 1,131
Apple 700 1,300
Apricot 372 1,300
Avocado 769 1,413
Banana 575 656
Fig 600 1,500
Orange 760 880
Pear 540 2,800
Strawberry 920 1,400


Garry F Gordon MD DO MD(H)
Gordon Research Institute
708 E. Hwy 260 Bldg. C-1 , Payson, AZ 85541
Ph: (928) 472-4263 Fax: (928) 474-3819
All contents © 2004 GRI. All rights reserved.
John was diagnosed Jan 2005. On lipitor 20mg .On Copaxone since July 4,2005. Vitamin D3 2000iu-4000iu (depending on sunshine months)June 10 2005(RX::Dr. O'Connor) Omega 3 as well Turmeric since April 2005. Q10 60mg. 1500mg liquid Glucosamine Nov 2005.
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Postby CureOrBust » Tue Sep 20, 2005 5:37 am


now I just have to read... and read... and read...

really, the information looks great.
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Postby remnants » Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:02 am

Info. on NAC in a simple, easy to understand format:

http://www.wholehealthmd.com/refshelf/s ... 09,00.html
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Postby Arron » Mon Jul 10, 2006 8:15 pm

NAC folks, do you remember if it had any odor to it? I just bought a bottle and it reeks... kind of like garlic, but not really. I'm surprised, as Alpha Lipoic, which is a related antioxidant has no odor whatsoever.

Wondering if I got a bad batch?
Disclaimer: Any information you find on this site should not be considered medical advice. All decisions should be made with the consent of your doctor, otherwise you are at your own risk.
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