klenner protocol

Discuss herbal therapies, vitamins and minerals, bee stings, etc. here

Postby jimmylegs » Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:40 am

when i was starting to investigate this protocol i could not get a desirable form of b12 in liquid for injection.

i could only get cyanocobalamin form. i went the sublingual methylcobalamin route and i ended up doing everything else orally also (i cut out a few things eg liver extract)..

if i had to do it again today, i would still make some modifications but i have to say my condition dramatically improved in only three days on an oral version of klenner.

on day one i had no position sense in my hands and i could not play a guitar or type by feel. by day three i could do both again.

i used to think it was mainly the b vitamins, because of my own b12 history, but now i think the vitamin e had a lot to do with it too. even though back then i was not taking the right form of vitamin e yet!
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
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Other B vitamins

Postby val57gal » Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:22 pm

I followed the Klenner protocol for about 4 years, off and on, with no real improvement. (It may have slowed deterioration, but that's hard to measure.) Since my hands won't do injections anymore, I tried B1 pills, but they don't sit well in my stomach.

What I've found is that I need B1 and the OTHER B vitamins in some non-pill form. I started using liquid sublingual B complex (incl B12) and have seen some great improvements in energy and stiffness. What's more, I can sing again! (I used to be semi-pro.)

While the Klenner protocol rightly points out the need for B vitamins in MS, I think you may have to play around with it to find what works for you. Perhaps the important thing isn't the injections, it's bypassing the digestive system.

Has anyone tried any of the B complex creams? I've seen them marketed for autistic children, and wondered if anyone has had any success with them for MS.

PPMS dx 2001
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Postby jimmylegs » Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:37 pm

heya were you doing injections or an oral version when you were on and off with it for years?

that's great that you're singing again! congrats - i know how hard it is to lose your music.. i could not play guitar for a while d.t lack of all those klenner nutrients, and then i could not sing for a while d.t depleted magnesium. it sucked!

why could you not sing? for me it was shortness of breath and dysphagia. luckily magnesium resolved both quite well, in my case at least.

http://www.acu-cell.com/bx.html
"Higher intake of Vitamin B6 will also increase magnesium retention, although this only takes place following long-term oral supplementation, while regular Vitamin B6 injections will quickly result in a high magnesium / low calcium ratio."
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Postby val57gal » Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:11 pm

Jimmylegs,

I was doing the full Klenner for B vitamins with daily injections, B complex pills, Niacin 2x week. Now I'm doing everything but the Niacin sublingual (plus regular magnesium & zinc pills, thanks to you). (And D3 of course.)

As far as singing goes, I think it was lack of energy plus muscle weakness in the diaphragm (no support = no singing, since I do legit/musical theater). Now I still wouldn't sing in public, but geez, it's a lot more fun singing around the house.

Val
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Postby jimmylegs » Tue Feb 15, 2011 6:16 pm

i totally blamed a spastic diaphragm for my shortness of breath. it suuucked!
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Postby lyndacarol » Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:29 pm

val57gal-- I like your idea:
Perhaps the important thing isn't the injections, it's bypassing the digestive system.


I wonder if many of the nutritional deficiencies experienced by people with MS occur because the digestive system does not absorb the nutrients.

Seems to me that it could be a possibility.
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Postby val57gal » Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:46 am

lyndacarol--

And wouldn't it be nice to avoid all those darn shots? I understand sublingual and transdermal absorption isn't as high as for injections, but they're higher than digestive absorption.

V
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Postby jimmylegs » Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:24 am

actually, sublingual can be as good as injection from what i've read. my doc thinks so too, at least wrt vit b12..

anyway, have a read on leaky gut and links to ms:
http://www.msrc.co.uk/index.cfm/fuseact ... pageid/737

a telling excerpt:

"Causes of a leaky gut
•Nutritional deficiencies
•Non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (eg. Aspirin, ibuprofen, NSAIDs etc), antibiotics, cytotoxic drugs, H2 receptor agonist drugs, eg Zantec, Tagamet.)
•Toxic pesticide residues/inhaled chemicals/environmental toxins
•Refined sugar
•Candida
•Parasites
•Stress
•Trauma
•Inflammation
•Food allergens
•Lectin, which can cause inflammation of the gut lining
•Free radical damage
•Alcohol and tobacco
•Low secretory IgA intestinal antibodies
•Bacterial secretions
•Sluggish liver - toxic overload from the liver affects the gut and increases permeability
•Lack of Oxygen
•Deficiency in digestive enzymes or hydrochloric acid"

my naturopath suggested castor oil packs, actually, to combat leaky gut, but i sorted out my diet and supplement regimen instead, to heal.

zinc is definitely part of the picture when it comes to intestinal permeability, and when i tested my zinc levels i was deficient. i absorb things like vitamin D3 many times better now that my zinc status is improved. not sure about what other things might be better absorbed, but i do know that my body also handles the urea cycle much better too.

study: http://jn.nutrition.org/content/138/9/1664.full.pdf
have fun with that abstract LOL
conclusion: "These results provide new information on the critical role played by dietary zinc in the maintenance of membrane barrier integrity and in controlling inflammatory cell infiltration."

msrc on zinc: http://www.msrc.co.uk/index.cfm/fuseact ... pageid/653

this goes back a couple years, discussion on zinc, membranes, permeability, and zinc:
http://www.thisisms.com/ftopicp-54065.html#54065
(good link to a graphic showing tight junctions between cells)

at least with the list of causes in hand we can tease out action items to maximize GI absorption of nutrients. i think it's best to do our utmost to maximize GI absorption and then back it up with other methods. recognizing that in some cases injection is about the only option.
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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just started klenner protocol

Postby roadaction13 » Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:05 pm

thanks to the information on this thread, I collected the supplies and started last week.

I'm hoping it will help my neuropathy. I've decided to stick it out for three months.

thanks everyone.
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Postby jimmylegs » Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:26 pm

heya are you doing injections or oral? i hope it helps you! i was WAY better in 3 days it was crazy. i know we're not all the same but this is one that really worked for me. although i only bothered with about half of it actually, because it was too much info back then :S good luck with it :D
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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NY Times article on bacteria & Vitamin B

Postby val57gal » Sat Apr 23, 2011 12:37 pm

There's an article in the NY Times (subscription)

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/21/scien ... ref=health

that describes how people can be divided into three groups or enterotypes by their gut bacteria, and how the main differentiator is how B vitamins are absorbed/produced:

"Dr. Bork and his colleagues have found that each of the enterotypes makes a unique balance of these enzymes. Enterotype 1 produces more enzymes for making vitamin B7 (also known as biotin), for example, and Enterotype 2 more enzymes for vitamin B1 (thiamine). "

It makes me wonder if our "enterotypes" influence whether the Klenner protocol works for us or not.
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Re: klenner protocol

Postby dez2000 » Sun Nov 11, 2012 1:27 pm

Dr Klenner was an early pioneer of vitamin C and vitamin therapies. Like so many pioneers, conventional medicine has deliberately chosen to ignore Dr Klenner even to the point of blackballing (see the internet) his name by conventional medicine, the FDA, the AMA, government health agencies and the so called nonprofit societies (their very existence depend, on us to remain sick and ignorant). His 28 papers are on the internet describing his research cures and therapies on dozens of mans ailments. His therapies are used and researched by thousands of people, doctors, scientist and researchers around the world. If anyone is interest their health and that of family and friends, Dr Klenner is a must read
The Reidsville NC newspaper reported that his patients described themselves as Dr Klenner,s enthusiastic guinea pigs. He was known to say that his 'only mistakes using vitamin C was not using enough’. When ask how much to use, he replied 'what ever it takes’,
The study of Dr F R Klenner’s life, as doctor in Reidsville NC is a classic example of a daring pioneer in medicine who chose to cure, not just treat his patients. Let him become your doctor. The Klenner Protocol is his cure for MS. …dez...
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