all things vitamin D

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Postby HUTTO » Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:13 pm

my vit d level was 32...is this moderate or super low??
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Postby jimmylegs » Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:00 pm

super low if it's 32 nmol/L. as in nowhere near good enough to forstall osteoporosis, probably not even rickets for that matter.

moderate if it's 32 ng/mL (79 nmol/L), okay perhaps for preventing or somewhat mitigating osteoporosis. since you've been supplementing so assiduously, i think you must be at 32 ng/mL. it's odd that you have been working at it and are still only at 32/79. you've been taking d3 so far, right?

any road, 32 ng/mL would still be considered low if you're talking immune system health. with weekly doses of 50,000 they are probably aiming you for 50 ng/mL in short order.

your docs must be up on all this, but to briefly revisit d2 vs d3:
1998 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9771862

2004 http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/conten ... 89/11/5387
The relative potencies of vitamins D2 and D3 were evaluated by administering single doses of 50,000 IU of the respective calciferols to 20 healthy male volunteers...
Vitamin D2 potency is less than one third that of vitamin D3. Physicians resorting to use of vitamin D2 should be aware of its markedly lower potency and shorter duration of action relative to vitamin D3.
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Vit D - Jimmy to translate

Postby bromley » Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:02 am

I don't understand the details but the conclusion (title of the research) is interesting


http://www.msif.org/goexternal.rm?id=4133
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Postby CureOrBust » Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:13 am

were these guys being charged by the word?
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Postby jimmylegs » Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:21 am

read: "you can get as much sun as you want but if you have certain screwed up vitamin D receptors, you're in for it anyway".

which i take to mean, if you don't have the right receptor functionality your body can't effectively undertake the first and second hydroxylations of cholecalciferol needed to get your immune system functioning effectively.

not covered in the abstract:
UNLESS... you were to input dietary or pharmaceutical forms that were already hydroxylated, at least to 25-hydroxycholecalciferol (25OHD).

certain foods do contain 25OHD, such as egg yolk. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12743460

i don't know enough details of the d3 process to say whether this study indicates anything about capacity to complete the second hydroxylation to 1,25 dihydroxycholecalciferol - 1,25(OH)2D3. i can't quickly find any foods that already contain that form, but i'd guess that if you eat something with 25OHD, it probably has 1,25(OH)2D3 too.

just thoughts.
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Postby mrhodes40 » Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:02 am

I agree the abstract is a little THIN shall we say for any interpretation and I agree with Jimmy but want to add that 1,25 dihydroxyvitamin d is always made in the body through hydroxylation of 25OH d either by the kidneys or sometimes by activated macrophages locally. It is never ingested.

It is the active form of the vitaim and is essentially a hormone so it is tightly regulated and created by the body only at need and in response to parathyroid hormone, calcuim levels and overall d status.

Personally my d status, both 1,25d and 25d are in the 60 range.

It'd be interesting to read the whole citation and see if they correlate their material to d status, both 25 and 1,25d, to draw the conslusions.

:D
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Postby jimmylegs » Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:00 am

interesting, m. so you can't eat a critter that has previously hydroxylated d3 to the 1,25 form? or is it that even if you do, it doesn't do anything for your immune system? i'm sure i have read about dietary supplementation with 1,25 (OH)2D3 though... in chickens mostly, but still. i just can't find an example of a regular food that specifically mentions this as a component. i'm still going to try to track down whether there are foods with 25OHD3 in them that also have 1,25(OH)2D3. to me it makes sense that something would. and of course we also do make it in our own bodies, predominantly in the kidneys as you noted.
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Postby jimmylegs » Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:24 pm

so it can be in the food... but whether our bodies use those inputs as a contribution to the "home-made" variety??

D3, 25OHD3, and 1,25(OH)2D3 in steak, liver, kidney (see Table 6)
https://www.animalsciencepublications.o ... /6/0841481
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Low vit d level and need to see an endocrinologist

Postby elly » Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:35 am

Hi Guys,

Just wanting some opinions please.

I saw my neuro last week for my standard 6 monthly appointment and i asked him to write up a slip to get my vit d levels checked.
Well i had the test done and surprise surprise it's low.
The neuro phoned me to let me know that the level is 30 and it should be above 50. So he wants to refer me to a endocrinologist (this one has a particular interest and researches vit d).

I'm not sure why this is, i just thought that he could recommend me a dose of vitamin d to take.

So i started taking vitd3 1000iu 1 tablet per day.

Have any of you had a low level of vit d and if so did your neuro advise you or did you have to see another specialist?

Thanks

Elly
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Postby jimmylegs » Wed Aug 13, 2008 5:07 am

hi elly yes i had low vitd3, i had to request the test to find out, as you did. a few glitches involved in that but it got sorted out. i never did get referred to another specialist. i don't think my doc knew that much about it.

if you need a quick boost here's what i did (but it's not in your units sorry - the conversion is 1 of yours = 2.496 of mine, so just divide everything by 2.5 and you should be okay.

my levels were 72 (28.8) [edit: that is, 2 8 . 8] when i first got tested and i had already been taking 2000IU and more d3 for a couple of months.

i found a study which let me calculate how long it would take to get to a better level over 100 or so, using that dosage. it was months and months. i was impatient.

i called the hospital and they said they can boost a patient's serum levels 50 (20) units in a short time by giving 50,000IU per day for 10 days.

i did this and on my followup test my level was 149. i used 4000IU per day as a maintenance dosage after that but i did not properly balance my calcium magnesium and zinc dosage with it, so that's something to watch out for.

i have since slacked off on the d3, and on a test earlier this year i was back down in the 70s, so it's time for another 10-day blast.

this is all by way of saying you may want to consider a higher daily, and you may want to think about ensuring those minerals get into the picture also.

i haven't looked into why an endocrinologist would be recommended for you, but i'm sure there are a few people here who can enlighten :)

JL
Last edited by jimmylegs on Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Low vit d level and need to see an endocrinologist

Postby gwa » Wed Aug 13, 2008 6:33 am

[quote="elly"]

So he wants to refer me to a endocrinologist (this one has a particular interest and researches vit d).

quote]

This is a wonderful opportunity for you to get an expert opinion about how much to take. There are a lot of guesses as to dosage floating around online, but seeing someone who is interested in Vit D would be terrific!

Let us know what he says about your dosage needs.

gwa
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Postby MaggieMae » Wed Aug 13, 2008 8:06 am

I agree. See the endocrinologist. Then report to us what he had to say. I think we would all be interested. I have read many articles and papers on Vitamin D and many opinions.

My husband's neurologist did not give him the test. We had to request that his GP give the test and tell the GP exactly what test to give. His levels were only 27 and he also had been on more than 2000IU daily for two months when he had the test. His doctors have not had much to say about the Vit D either way. I believe that everyone should have their levels checked just like your cholesterol.

See the endocrinologist.
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Postby MaggieMae » Wed Aug 13, 2008 8:23 am

Reading this post today reminded me that I never called for my husband's Vit D results when he had it checked last month. I just called and his total was only 33. He has been taking 4000IU daily for about a year now. We strated at 2000IU and then 3000IU and now 4000IU. He also takes calcium.
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Postby Punchy » Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:01 am

Maybe this is a stupid question buy Jimmy, since you're Canadian, did you have to ask your neuro for the test or did you ask your GP?

I only see my neuro once a year, but will my GP be able to interpret the results?
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Seinfeld

Postby notasperfectasyou » Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:23 am

I'm just going to say that Jimmylegs knows this stuff backwards and forewards. For us, Kim's on 6000 IU D3 daily. When we run out, she's going to fill a script she got from Dr. Sriram for 50,000 IU once a week. Ken
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