all things vitamin D

Discuss herbal therapies, vitamins and minerals, bee stings, etc. here

Postby cheerleader » Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:37 pm

Thank you for the tip, Dim-
Hope all is well for you and your wife in Greece.
You mean "heat shock proteins"... I'm learning about them.

http://www.antigenics.com/products/tech/hsp/

"Heat shock proteins (HSPs), also called stress proteins, are a group of proteins that are present in all cells in all life forms. They are induced when a cell undergoes various types of environmental stresses like heat, cold and oxygen deprivation."

The weather is quite warm in southern California now, and Jeff feels the fatigue most in the afternoon, after working for several hours. He takes a short "siesta" and feels better, but he wold love to get his energy levels up. He doesn't eat any bread or gluten and wheat products at all. He eats mostly fish, eggs, salads, veggies, fruits, nuts and chicken.

Keeping him cool seems to help a bit-
best,
AC
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
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vit d2 vs vid d3

Postby HUTTO » Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:05 am

just wanted some thoughts.. i recently had my neuro run the vit d level..it came back low..i take about 2000-3000iu daily of vit d3 and 4000iu in the winter. my neuro wants to put me on vit d2 50,000iu a week bill..should i agree to this or is there any real difference?? thanks for responding in advanced.
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Postby jimmylegs » Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:55 am

what was your low number again? 50s? 60? 70s?
and this was after taking good-sounding dailies for how many months/years?
d2 is fine if you're a plant. getting 50,000IU d2 in pill form is pretty easy which may be why you're getting that suggestion.
d3 form is what human skin makes when exposed to sunlight. in my experience, d3 is available in an extremely potent liquid form with a three month shelf life. you eke a drop out of a syringe and that's your 50,000 for the day (or in your case it would be week).
i am quite interested to hear how many weeks this script of 50,000iu lasts for, and what the plan and timing for followup testing might be.
cheers :)
Last edited by jimmylegs on Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby HUTTO » Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:28 pm

legs they didn't tell me..this was over email. the nurse said that i was a bit low. i haven't got the script yet so i will keep you posted. i asked for d 3 if available but i dont think i will get it. i want the d 3 and not d 2 but we will see..i will post when i find out.
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Postby jimmylegs » Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:01 pm

k good luck H :)
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Postby Loriyas » Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:59 pm

For what it is worth, I also was prescribed vitamin D at 50,000 IU per week by the neurologist at Vanderbilt. He told me to have my levels checked, which I did. My GP told me that the levels were somewhat low and that he had no problem with 50,000 IU per week. But I stupidly forgot to ask what the levels actually were. I'll check on that tomorrow. But my point is that it is becoming more common to prescribe vitamin D (for many diseases/ailments including MS)
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Postby HUTTO » Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:05 am

hey lori..yeah i saw moses at vandy..apparently thats what they do..i just sent an email to see what my levels were.
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Postby HUTTO » Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:13 pm

my vit d level was 32...is this moderate or super low??
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Postby jimmylegs » Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:00 pm

super low if it's 32 nmol/L. as in nowhere near good enough to forstall osteoporosis, probably not even rickets for that matter.

moderate if it's 32 ng/mL (79 nmol/L), okay perhaps for preventing or somewhat mitigating osteoporosis. since you've been supplementing so assiduously, i think you must be at 32 ng/mL. it's odd that you have been working at it and are still only at 32/79. you've been taking d3 so far, right?

any road, 32 ng/mL would still be considered low if you're talking immune system health. with weekly doses of 50,000 they are probably aiming you for 50 ng/mL in short order.

your docs must be up on all this, but to briefly revisit d2 vs d3:
1998 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9771862

2004 http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/conten ... 89/11/5387
The relative potencies of vitamins D2 and D3 were evaluated by administering single doses of 50,000 IU of the respective calciferols to 20 healthy male volunteers...
Vitamin D2 potency is less than one third that of vitamin D3. Physicians resorting to use of vitamin D2 should be aware of its markedly lower potency and shorter duration of action relative to vitamin D3.
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Vit D - Jimmy to translate

Postby bromley » Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:02 am

I don't understand the details but the conclusion (title of the research) is interesting


http://www.msif.org/goexternal.rm?id=4133
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Postby CureOrBust » Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:13 am

were these guys being charged by the word?
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Postby jimmylegs » Tue Aug 05, 2008 6:21 am

read: "you can get as much sun as you want but if you have certain screwed up vitamin D receptors, you're in for it anyway".

which i take to mean, if you don't have the right receptor functionality your body can't effectively undertake the first and second hydroxylations of cholecalciferol needed to get your immune system functioning effectively.

not covered in the abstract:
UNLESS... you were to input dietary or pharmaceutical forms that were already hydroxylated, at least to 25-hydroxycholecalciferol (25OHD).

certain foods do contain 25OHD, such as egg yolk. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12743460

i don't know enough details of the d3 process to say whether this study indicates anything about capacity to complete the second hydroxylation to 1,25 dihydroxycholecalciferol - 1,25(OH)2D3. i can't quickly find any foods that already contain that form, but i'd guess that if you eat something with 25OHD, it probably has 1,25(OH)2D3 too.

just thoughts.
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Postby mrhodes40 » Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:02 am

I agree the abstract is a little THIN shall we say for any interpretation and I agree with Jimmy but want to add that 1,25 dihydroxyvitamin d is always made in the body through hydroxylation of 25OH d either by the kidneys or sometimes by activated macrophages locally. It is never ingested.

It is the active form of the vitaim and is essentially a hormone so it is tightly regulated and created by the body only at need and in response to parathyroid hormone, calcuim levels and overall d status.

Personally my d status, both 1,25d and 25d are in the 60 range.

It'd be interesting to read the whole citation and see if they correlate their material to d status, both 25 and 1,25d, to draw the conslusions.

:D
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Postby jimmylegs » Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:00 am

interesting, m. so you can't eat a critter that has previously hydroxylated d3 to the 1,25 form? or is it that even if you do, it doesn't do anything for your immune system? i'm sure i have read about dietary supplementation with 1,25 (OH)2D3 though... in chickens mostly, but still. i just can't find an example of a regular food that specifically mentions this as a component. i'm still going to try to track down whether there are foods with 25OHD3 in them that also have 1,25(OH)2D3. to me it makes sense that something would. and of course we also do make it in our own bodies, predominantly in the kidneys as you noted.
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Postby jimmylegs » Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:24 am

so it can be in the food... but whether our bodies use those inputs as a contribution to the "home-made" variety??

D3, 25OHD3, and 1,25(OH)2D3 in steak, liver, kidney (a table)
http://jas.fass.org/cgi/content-nw/full/84/6/1481/T6
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