all things vitamin b12

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b12?

Postby MattB » Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:06 am

I was looking at a b supplement each dose contains 4166% of your daily value of b12. All the other b vitamins were in similar amounts per dose. Is this okay? It sounds unhealthy to me.
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Postby CureOrBust » Sat Jan 19, 2008 2:18 pm

Specifically for the B12, if its Methocobalamin, then I wouldn't worry. Mine is at 83330%
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Postby DIM » Fri Feb 29, 2008 3:11 am

All vitamin B familly are water soluble so there isn't problem with high dosages, we simply "discard" the rest!
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Postby jimmylegs » Sun May 25, 2008 9:14 am

so, wow i was such a newbie last time i posted on this thread lol!

never ended up doing any injections. why bother, the sublingual is just as good. not a huge needle fan.

anyway, i think i might have run across this info before, something similar at any rate... but just in case...

when i was dxd i told the docs about my b12 deficiency history, and my spinal lesions were exactly consistent with the lesion pattern in b12 deficiency, however my neuro said my brain lesions would not have been caused by that.

BUT...

Pediatr Radiol. 1997 Feb;27(2):155-8.
Retardation of myelination due to dietary vitamin B12 deficiency: cranial MRI findings.
Lövblad K, Ramelli G, Remonda L, Nirkko AC, Ozdoba C, Schroth G.

Vitamin B12 deficiency is known to be associated with signs of demyelination, usually in the spinal cord. Lack of vitamin B12 in the maternal diet during pregnancy has been shown to cause severe retardation of myelination in the nervous system. We report the case of a 14(1)/2-month-old child of strictly vegetarian parents who presented with severe psychomotor retardation. This severely hypotonic child had anemia due to insufficient maternal intake of vitamin B12 with associated megaloblastic anemia. MRI of the brain revealed severe brain atrophy with signs of retarded myelination, the frontal and temporal lobes being most severely affected. It was concluded that this myelination retardation was due to insufficient intake of vitamin B12 and vitamin B12 therapy was instituted. The patient responded well with improvement of clinical and imaging abnormalities. We stress the importance of MRI in the diagnosis and follow-up of patients with suspected diseases of myelination.
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Vit B12 protects against brain atrophy

Postby Frank » Thu Sep 11, 2008 3:39 pm

At the beginning and after 5 years 107 people aged between 61 and 87 were assessed by cognitive tests and MRI. High Vit B12 levels were associated with a 6 times lower risk of brain shinking (atrophy).

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 185121.htm

--Frank
Treatment: Gilenya since 01/2011, CCSVI both IJV ballooned 09/2010, Tysabri stopped after 24 Infusions and positive JCV antibody test, after LDN, ABX Wheldon Regime for 1 year.
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Postby jimmylegs » Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:16 pm

yep yep, b12 = cognitive impacts, long before it = hematological impacts. they just wait to see your blood cells actually change shape (mean corpuscular volume that is) under a microscope before they'll say the words "deficient". good old western science.
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B12 or MS?

Postby Vaithiar » Sun Nov 30, 2008 7:13 pm

Hello,

A couple of months back I was diagnosed with Optic Neuritis and was recommended by my optometrist for a MRI scan. My eyesight restored back to normalcy in a week. After which I went to the MRI appointment. The report revealed that I have a couple of bilateral white matter lesions in the Periventricular area of my brain in the shape of ovoids. It also showed signs of demyelination with an active plaque.
Even before I could set up an appointment with the Neurologist, my GP called over the phone and intimated that I had MS. I was totally devastated, But after pulling myself up, and little investigation I found out that vitamin B12 could also mimic MS. I am 28 year old female who has been vegetarian all throughout. I remember of being diagnosed with B12 deficiency in my late teens, but that I have no record of it though.
I took B12 test and my level came out pretty low (130 mg/PL to be exact.) Despite this, my Neuro is adamant and supposes it to be MS (probably because of Dawson's finger shape of the lesions in the MRI). He also recommends that I go on one of the therapies. My other tests other look alike tests such as Lupus, Lyme turned out negative.I am taking B12 injections and 1000 mcg tablets. I was wondering if it was a definite case of MS. It has been two months and things appear bright so far (knock on wood). Is ovoid shaped lesions in my MRI harbinger of doom or could it be just B12? Also, I want to know the progress of the disease? Is it as evil as it has been portrayed (I know this a stupid one! :twisted:)? Is it possible to lead a fairly okay life for another couple of decade (again I'm 28 and newly married)
Thanks,
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Welcome, Vaithiar

Postby lyndacarol » Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:31 am

Vaithiar, welcome. You have found a good place for your situation--lots of info, lots of supportive folks.

I recommend you begin by reading Multiple Sclerosis: The History of a Disease by T. Jock Murray, OC, MD.
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Postby jimmylegs » Mon Dec 01, 2008 5:40 am

i have a b12 deficiency history and dawson's fingers too. no ON though. b12 megadosing around the time of my dx was not helping. i finally saw clear evidence of improvement when i megadosed the rest of the b-complex too for three days. my opinion is that they should test all your b-vitamins. my docs suggested that i wash out b12 supps so that they could get a good baseline b12 value for my file but i was too scared, so i think it was about 300 (whatever the metric units are i forget) so i got dumped into the ms file. keep reading and asking questions! there's more to ms than the dx checklist. it's just that patients are much more on their own once they get stamped with the scarlet letters.
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Postby Vaithiar » Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:51 am

Thanks for the reply. Thanks Iyndacarol.

Jimmylegs - Has your lesions reduced after taking B12 and B complex supplements? How frequent are relapses? How would a typical day be?
I am avoiding wheat and lactose. Reduced fatty foods intake. I'm living on fresh vegetables, indian spices and rice.
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Postby jimmylegs » Mon Dec 01, 2008 3:05 pm

arg i apologize for this in advance but when i read your diet it 'touched a nerve'

my spinal cord damage is improved visibly on mri after not only b-complex supplementation but many other components - most fundamentally, a radical diet shift from 15 yrs strict vegan to 2+ years and counting biologically appropriate, ie the self-titled 'biodiversity diet'.

IMHO veggies and rice are not going to cut it, quite frankly, even added b supplements. by the way the b-complex megadosing protocol - one of the other components was notably a high protein intake for a few days, including 2-3 eggs per day.

i had to learn the hard way on veganism, but at the end of the day: been there, done that, paid the price.

in a typical day (now) i am aware of sensory loss and some other minor issues (not ON though). usually i don't feel the brain lesions.

be aware that b12 and the b-complex are the tip of a very large nutritional iceberg for vegetarians and vegans. i'm almost 3 years into the biologically appropriate mode and still trying to puzzle out the details of what i've done to myself over the previous decade and more.

mind you at this stage i can breathe normally, i'm not drowning (as much) in my own spit, i can feel the ground under my feet other than by bone vibrations, i can type, and hold objects, and play guitar again, and i don't have to pay someone else to wash my hair any more.

okay everyone how was that for a jimmy-style rant ;)
hope that helps v
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Postby Vaithiar » Mon Dec 01, 2008 3:34 pm

Sounds very interesting. I've been a vegetarian from birth and so have my parents and theirs. I was hoping to get a diet regime with vegetables and supplements. I hope it is possible.

Also, is too much of eggs good? Also, do you do any exercise whatsoever?
If so, could you recommend me any? Lastly, If you do not mind me asking, what's your age? When did you find your first symptom?
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Postby Terry » Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:42 pm

okay everyone how was that for a jimmy-style rant


Perfect!
I need your insight, JL. Keep postin!

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Postby jimmylegs » Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:45 pm

vegetarian is one thing, but you do sound vegan. i consider vegetarians to be those who eat things other than straight vegetables, along a spectrum starting with dairy, and moving along through eggs to things like fish and poultry. if you consume animal protein you are probably in less trouble than a strict vegan like i was. for exercise i mainly swim and hike. swimning's good because it keeps your spinal cord cool. when i get heated up, i lose functionality. for example at the rock climbing gym i'm a bit useless. the exertion takes away my ability to grip. i'm a ski instructor but that's not much exercise really. i need to do more stretching. that's about that for me and exercise. i think you can eat too many eggs. in my case the high protein diet using eggs was a short term regimen of a few days. i think it hardly made a dent in the previous eggless decade and a half. now i eat eggs regularly, but not multiple eggs per day. even though you can eat too many eggs, i think you can also eat too few. there are some who think that because of the pro-inflammatory properties that they should be avoided altogether. my naturopath said to limit eggs because they have a tendency to be inflammatory. i decided i needed to regulate my immune system, not baby it. just my 2cents!
in the beginning i really tried to figure out what supplements i would need to take to stay vegan. in the end i decided nature was smarter than science and that if i had a choice between boycotting pharmaceuticals and boycotting animal products, that i would stick to my guns with the pharmaceuticals and for diet i would get back into the ecosystem for my own health. supplements aren't the be-all and end-all, but when you've been depleting yourself for years and years, they're a good way to replenish those stores.
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Postby MattB » Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:40 pm

On the subject of diet: I attempted to go vegetarian. I took all the right supplements and ate all the right foods but I still felt progressively worse. I had to start eating meat again and I feel fine now. I still can't eat much beef(makes me sick to my stomach) but I'm able to buy much of my chicken from a local farm(I don't eat ANY pork products). As with everything else MS related this can vary greatly from individual to individual. Good luck with your diet plan!
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