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Sublingual B12

Postby CureOrBust » Sat Oct 08, 2005 2:52 am

Hi,

I have herd a couple people talk of sublingual B12 supplimentation. Where do you get this? I have only ever found B12 as a tablet (havnt asked my doctor regarding injections either)
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Postby SarahLonglands » Sun Oct 09, 2005 6:00 am

I get mine from i-herb, this link will take you straight to the item!

http://store.yahoo.com/iherb/methylsn5.html

"MethylCobalamin, an active coenzyme form of vitamin B-12 is essential for cell growth and replication. It is more concentrated than other forms of B-12 in the cerebral spinal fluid where it can be used by the central nervous system. It donates methyl groups to the myelin sheath that insulates certain nerve fibers. It may also play a role in maintaining a healthy sleep wake cycle, as well as normal nerve function."

5mg in one tablet, so you only need to suck ona a day! :P
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow Completed Dr Charles Stratton / Dr David Wheldon abx regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years. Still improving with no relapses since starting. Can't run but can paint all day.
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Postby CureOrBust » Sun Oct 09, 2005 6:36 am



Ok, I actually finally found a store physically close to me that sold sublingual B12, finally. It is "cynocobalamin", but will have to do untill my new order comes in. And YOU know how patient I am... :roll:

However, I checked out the above web site and it had two other items i have been looking for as well, that I cannot find in Australia (or at my current online store). ie Tumeric extract and DL-Phenylalanine; and I have my eye on the tablet form of inosine. Currently I take a powdered form which doesnt taste all that crash hot (its like drinking dust/dirt).

thanks!
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Postby SarahLonglands » Sun Oct 09, 2005 7:14 am

That's nothing: my dear husband once tried to get me to take activated charcoal in powdered form. Well, grit more like and I ended up with a black tongue 8O

Capsules win out every time. I finally got my own back, though: I killed a mosquito with the flat of my hand last night. Trouble was, it was on the side of his forehead! :wink:
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow Completed Dr Charles Stratton / Dr David Wheldon abx regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years. Still improving with no relapses since starting. Can't run but can paint all day.
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Postby CureOrBust » Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:00 am

I have been using the b12 you directing me towards for a while mow, and ive been meaning to post about it since i first got it. Thanks.

The sublingual tablets i found locally were not only the wrong type of b12, but they use to froth in my mouth so much, you would end up just swollowing it all.

And ya gotta love what they write on the side of these tablets:
...its more concentrated than other forms of b-12 in the cerebral spinal fluid where it can be used by the central nervous system. It donates methyl groups to the myelin sheath...


As for...

Anecdote wrote:That's nothing: my dear husband once tried to get me to take activated charcoal in powdered form. Well, grit more like and I ended up with a black tongue


ever since i read this, i keep getting an image of your husband giggling to himself as he emptied the capsules contents into the container... :) I just cant imagine anyone trying to sell charcoal in a powdered form.
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Postby SarahLonglands » Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:28 am

Ah, but they do, for filtering and purification purposes, not for human consumption though! We have got some and he thought I would make more use of the stuff if it wasn't in capsules. :o Hmm....... I have done many things as a guinea pig, but this was going too far!

Sarah 8O
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow Completed Dr Charles Stratton / Dr David Wheldon abx regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years. Still improving with no relapses since starting. Can't run but can paint all day.
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cyano- vs methyl- cobalamin, sublingual, IV, etc

Postby jimmylegs » Tue Mar 14, 2006 8:10 am

yep if u get sublingual b12 u want methylcobalamin which ur bod can use and apparently can also easily convert to adenosylcobalamin.

cyanocobalamin is the most commonly sold form of oral or over-the-counter injectable b12. u can get sublingual methylcobalamin lozenges from natural factors and others. when u look on the vitamin b page at www.naturalfactors.com and hit the link to view all products and then click buy now when you find the methylcobalamin product, it sends u to a page where u can locate a natural factors vendor near u, then ask the retailer to add it to their next order from nf. i think the product code is 1242.

i did all this yesterday but think i might just go with monthly injections after all depending on the $$$. my naturopath has methylcobalamin and said she can teach me how to do my own monthly injections which would free up a space in my pill box ;)
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Re: cyano- vs methyl- cobalamin, sublingual, IV, etc

Postby CureOrBust » Wed Mar 15, 2006 4:23 am

jimmylegs wrote:my naturopath has methylcobalamin and said she can teach me how to do my own monthly injections

I have read that the B12 injections are Intra muscular (or whatever). I used to take rebif (subcutaneous injection) and I could do this myself, but i dont have the guts to do IM. Is it available as a subcutaneous injection?
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subcutaneous methyl-cbl

Postby jimmylegs » Mon Mar 20, 2006 3:48 pm

hi i think it is probably available for sub-c, but i just found a great quest product that comes in little red squares about the size of a stamp which dissolve on your tongue and are mint flavoured. i have put these into the daily regimen until i find out about the injections. should have more info tomorrow. i love these squares tho coz they're 1000mcg each and i can just cut them up smaller if i need to drop the daily dose (my b12 is getting pretty high now). but i'll ask about the methyl injections. i don't think they'd be IM. :) but i'm brand new at all this!
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B12

Postby Sammy76 » Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:24 pm

I have been told that I have extremely low B12. After doing research I have found that people with very low B12 have the same symptoms as MS patients, ie vertigo, numbness, ON, lesions, etc. All the symptoms that I have.
My question do most patients have low B12 or is it possible that I have been mis-diagnosed? I'm doing a lot of research and meeting with more Dr's, I just want to know if very low B12 is normal with MS or not always.

Thanks,
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Postby jimmylegs » Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:59 pm

oh this one is so mine.

b12 deficiency is the main differential dx that they have to rule out in ms. characteristic spinal lesions caused by b12 deficiency are the cervical, and the thoracic(dorsal) lesions (like mine). some studies argue that ms patients are not low in b12 because there aren't a significant number under 300. some argue that the "normal" range is in fact too low. you will find a link posted in here somewhere, to a site that details b12 testing for practitioners. this site indicates that health care practitioners should conduct secondary tests for b12 deficiency for any result under 400.

in my case, the clinic did not think that b12 would be an issue because i tested at 300. hmm. nobody suggested any secondary testing, because the computers aren't set up to flag levels under 400 for further investigation. hmmm. however, i was supplementing heavily at the time (why weren't my numb feet waking up this time? it had always worked before!), and i was too scared of the possible backlash if i stopped and did a washout to get a better baseline test.

previously, when not supplementing, i had been tested at "less than 75" meaning their test was not sensitive enough to figure out if my b12 level was 74, or 4. this nuance made my b12 issues slip through the cracks as that particular item, being alpha-numeric, did not feed nicely into my family doctor's trend chart for my b12 level. were they able to detect your level?

all in all, they decided that in spite of my telling them that i had been a strict vegan for 15 years, that ms was more likely than b12 deficiency because i had oligoclonal bands in my spinal fluid, which would not be related to b12, and i also had a number of brain lesions, including the ominous "dawson's fingers" which are apparently characteristic findings in ms patients, and not in b12 deficiency. never mind that perfectly normal people are sometimes found to have lesions in their brain upon autopsy.

that said, i was pretty sure that b12 was in fact a significant chunk of my problem even if it wasn't the sum total of all my health issues. i thought it rather more reasonable to keep on with the b12 in spite of the ms diagnosis. however, b12 had always topped me back up to normal in the past. this time, i was taking higher doses for a longer time period, and it didn't work as well as before. what DID work was when i added the rest of the complex to my supplement plan. i had taken b12 on its own for too long, and it needed the complex to work properly.

in the 70s this klenner fellow had a lot of success treating myasthenia gravis and ms through a supplement protocol that heavily relies upon the b complex vitamins among other things. i modified his regimen to make things a little more manageable and had shockingly quick results. one of the things in his protocol that i had omitted was the magnesium. i had some recent problems with my throat and was advised by a clever pharmacist to take magnesium. it sorted me right out, in about 2 days. crazy! someone recently asked me about the klenner protocol so i went back over it and saw the magnesium on his list, and laughed at myself for thinking i knew better and didn't have to take his magnesium recommendation.

i recently got diagnosed with carpal tunnel too, and when i investigate that i see deficiency of b2 and b6. so it's back to the klenner protocol for me!

one thing about klenner, he designed his protocol in the pre-dawn of understanding related to vitamin D3 and immune system function. if you just throw D3 into his protocol and end up taking it at the same time as your magnesium, you don't get klenner's intended benefit of magnesium on its own. so if you decide to follow his regimen in part or in total, make sure you get part of your daily magnesium dose taken at a different time from the D3.

i skip the liver extract in his protocol, personally, i think that's just a uric acid thing, ms patients are typically around 194 uric acid, healthy controls are at 290, so i eat liver instead. yes, the vegan thing went right out the window when i started trying to figure out the biochem!

so. much more than b12. but yes, take it. take lots. sub-lingually. methylcobalamin, or hydroxycobalamin. and wash it down with a b100 complex.

do you know why you are extremely low in b12 yet? have they tested you for parietal cell antibodies?
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Postby jimmylegs » Tue Dec 04, 2007 4:37 pm

and i remembered one more thing and searched for b12 and magnesium together - here's what i found:
http://stuff.mit.edu/people/london/magnesium.html
Also note that B vitamins are necessary for proper utilization of magnesium. Some people with fibromyalgia might have B vitamin deficiencies, especially B12. One study, has shown that homocysteine levels are high in the cerebrospinal fluid, and this indicates low levels of B12 in the brain. Additionally, homocysteine causes a depletion of intracellular free magnesium:, and according to the following study, only a combination of B6, B12, and folate acid can stop this depletion of magnesium. Thus, some people with fibromyalgia might benefit from B vitamin supplementation. (However, certain B12 deficiencies require B12 shots, as some people are unable to orally absorb enough B12.)

that site is actually a very interesting read altogether. lots of similarities between the FM symptoms and the MS experience, and many similar nutritional nuances.

related study:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entre ... stractPlus[/quote]
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Postby cheerleader » Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:46 pm

Just want to give Jimmylegs props...
hail to the Master of Magnesium! (and B12)
Thanks to you... my hubby is sleeping so much better since supplementing with Mg-
he also takes sublingual B12. It's all good.
Make sure you go with subligual B-12, Sammie. Jarrow makes a tasty lozenge.
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Postby jimmylegs » Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:59 pm

lol cheer! so glad that your hubby is having a better time now!!!
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Postby jimmylegs » Sun Dec 09, 2007 12:34 pm

update: my throat went funky, again, (after about 4 weeks without any supplements for some clean bloodwork)
magnesium fixed it, again. crazy!
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