This Is MS Multiple Sclerosis Community: Knowledge & Support

Not to get on the vitamin kick but......

http://www.drugstorenews.com/article/ni ... ualSitemap

Just read this article, and saw it on the TV news too:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/artic ... ds-newsxml


For the last 4 years every night I take 1000IU of Vitamin E - http://www.hollandandbarrett.com/pages/ ... d=69&sid=0

and
200mcg Selenium with added vitamin A,C,E - http://www.zipvit.com/cgi-bin/popupprod ... 20Sterling


Would it be sensible to now stop these 2 vitamins?
Although could these results be nothing more than a co-incidence?
but it does say on that article -
The chances of developing the disease rose by 17 per cent, even years after men stopped taking the vitamin, claim researchers.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/artic ... z1abyyvGeH

i also take on a daily basis - Calcium/Magnesium, Fish Oil, Vitamin B50, C, D3, Zinc, Copper, Acidophilus

Thank you

this is the exact, and i mean THE, EXACT, study i'm talking about when i say you need to take the forms into consideration when looking at supplementation studies.

in the SELECT study they gave participants "vitamin E (400 IU/day of all-rac-alpha-tocopheryl acetate)". read that as synthetic vitamin e derived from petroleum products. then they measured serum alpha tocopherol (anti-oxidant) and gamma tocopherol (tumour suppressant).

not surprisingly the subjects taking the synthetic alpha tocopherol showed an increase in serum alpha tocopherol. however, their antiproliferative gamma tocopherol levels were driven down.

because the isolated synthetic version of vitamin e was given, it altered the natural distribution of the vitamin e complex in the body, and tumours were able to gain ground as a result.

the researchers concluded "Selenium or vitamin E, alone or in combination at the doses and formulations used, did not prevent prostate cancer in this population of relatively healthy men."

now we have all vit e supplements painted with the same brush. natural ratio supplements, ones NOT derived from petroleum but let's say from sunflowers, would not have the same result.

also, i have never heard of or been able to find a documented case of vitamin e poisoning from food sources.

_________________
my approach: no meds so far - just balanced whole foods (partial 'paleo', much less outright elimination), science, supplements, & bloodwork
my regimen - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com

the vitamin e they used in that study is a synthetic alpha tocopherol derived from petroleum.

i would say you need to switch forms, not stop taking vit e and selenium altogether.

i don't like the look of your products, and here's why:

the selenium is good, but the vit E in the blend is synthetic dl-alpha tocopherol, not natural ratio e8 complex

in the 1000IU vit e, it's a slightly better form but still all d-alpha tocopherol.

you need to eat good food sources of vitamin e, and get a natural source E8 complex supplement.

personally, at this time, i stick to max 400IU vit e per day, on top of diet.

when i was really sick in 2006 i took 3200IU per day for three days (just regular old alpha tocopherol because i did not yet know about e8 complex) and my lost position sense came back. but that is a short term megadose application, not something you would consider doing for years on end.

as for selenium, to avoid cheap blends of vitamin e, you can just take plain old 200mcg selenium in future. (A-C-E-S is a great combo in principle, it just has to be done right in practise or there's no point)

hope that helps!

_________________
my approach: no meds so far - just balanced whole foods (partial 'paleo', much less outright elimination), science, supplements, & bloodwork
my regimen - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com

Thanks Jimmylegs

In view of this my approach to Vit E is getting a base line from food, multivits, and a little from oil supplements (fish and EPO) and keep the 400iu in reserve for when the old ON flicker makes an appearance.

Its a pain balancing anti oxidants. I had favoured E over C because C drives down uric acid levels.

no probs mrb. you can't rely on the vit e in a multi to be a balanced natural ratio of all four tocopherols and all four tocotrienols.
you can supplement vit E. it just has to be natural source natural ratio e8 complex. not a petroleum-source single tocopherol.

_________________
my approach: no meds so far - just balanced whole foods (partial 'paleo', much less outright elimination), science, supplements, & bloodwork
my regimen - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com

Taking some Tocotrienols would make a lot of sense, because they have a very POTENT anti-prostate cancer effect. I take both the Jarrow and life extension brands each day.

Go to http://www.pubmed.gov and do a search on "tocotrienols" and "cancer", and another using "prostate cancer" and you will find many new studies indicating their anti-cancer effects. I think the gamma-tocotrienols are the most potent.

jackD

also gamma tocopherol!

_________________
my approach: no meds so far - just balanced whole foods (partial 'paleo', much less outright elimination), science, supplements, & bloodwork
my regimen - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com

It is a matter of displacement.

jackD


J Nutr. 2003 Oct;133(10):3137-40.

Supplementation of diets with alpha-tocopherol reduces serum concentrations of gamma- and delta-tocopherol in humans.

Huang HY, Appel LJ.

Department of Epidemiology, Bloomberg School of Public Health, Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore, MD 21205, USA. hyhuang@jhsph.edu

Abstract
Despite promising evidence from in vitro experiments and observational studies, supplementation of diets with alpha-tocopherol has not reduced the risk of cardiovascular disease and cancer in most large-scale clinical trials.

One plausible explanation is that the potential health benefits of alpha-tocopherol supplements are offset by deleterious changes in the bioavailability and/or bioactivity of other nutrients.

We studied the effects of supplementing diets with RRR-alpha-tocopheryl acetate (400 IU/d) on serum concentrations of gamma- and delta-tocopherol in a randomized, placebo-controlled trial in 184 adult nonsmokers. Outcomes were changes in serum concentrations of gamma- and delta-tocopherol from baseline to the end of the 2-mo experimental period.

Compared with placebo, supplementation with alpha-tocopherol reduced serum gamma-tocopherol concentrations by a median change of 58% [95% CI = (51%, 66%), P < 0.0001], and reduced the number of individuals with detectable delta-tocopherol concentrations (P < 0.0001).

Consistent with trial results were the results from baseline cross-sectional analyses, in which prior vitamin E supplement users had significantly lower serum gamma-tocopherol than nonusers.

In view of the potential benefits of gamma- and delta-tocopherol, the efficacy of alpha-tocopherol supplementation may be reduced due to decreases in serum gamma- and delta-tocopherol levels. Additional research is clearly warranted.

PMID: 14519797 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Free full text

Thanks JL,

So would you say the article is more of another scare tactic in the press?
Surely there are many variables besides the vit e / selenium that could result in prostate cancer, especially as cancer hits 1 in 3,

but i will take on what you say about avoiding d-alpha tocopherol, but i have looked on iherb for an e8 product with no results, maybe im searching wrong,

could you please siggest a suitable replacement for my vit e from http://www.iherb.com

is it advised to finish off the rest of the vit e / selenium i have before starting a new one

hey there, yes i think scare tactics are fun sometimes, this one is an oldie but a goodie, why not cause another stir with it...

fyi, some iherb options:

Carlson
http://www.iherb.com/Carlson-Labs-E-Gem ... 12908?at=0
$61.75 for 240 gelcaps = $0.26 per cap

http://www.iherb.com/Carlson-Labs-E-Gem ... /2789?at=0
$35.62 for 120 gelcaps = $0.30 per cap

Life Extension
http://www.iherb.com/Life-Extension-Gam ... 16386?at=0
$31.50 for 60 gelcaps = $0.53 per cap

hth!

_________________
my approach: no meds so far - just balanced whole foods (partial 'paleo', much less outright elimination), science, supplements, & bloodwork
my regimen - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com

Folks...

There is a form of Vitamin E - alpha tocopherol that has some POTENT anti-Cancer properties. There also are LOTS of info in PubMed on it.

IT IS "VITAMIN E" SUCCINATE". PLEASE - PLEASE.. DO A SEARCH in
http://www.pubmed.gov using this info "VITAMIN E" SUCCINIATE "prostate cancer"

THE QUOTES ARE NECESSARY FOR PROPER SELECTION!!!

It (VITAMIN E succinate) is in my multi-vitamin that it is also "IRON FREE".

The IRON was taken out of most/many Multi-vitamins years ago.

Looks like the succinate version make a BIG difference!!

jackD


Prostate. 2008 Nov 1;68(15):1624-34.

Combination of vitamin E and selenium causes an induction of apoptosis of human prostate cancer cells by enhancing Bax/Bcl-2 ratio.

Reagan-Shaw S, Nihal M, Ahsan H, Mukhtar H, Ahmad N.
SourceDepartment of Dermatology, University of Wisconsin, Madison, Wisconsin 53706, USA.

Abstract
BACKGROUND: The Selenium and Vitamin E Chemoprevention Trial (SELECT) is aimed at determining the usefulness of a combination of vitamin E and selenium for Prostate cancer (PCa) prevention in humans. The aim of this study is to evaluate the efficacy and mechanistic basis of this combination.

METHODS: We determined the effect of vitamin E (+-alpha-tocopheryl succinate, VES) and selenium (methylselenic acid, MSA), alone and in combination, on the proliferation of LNCaP, DU145, and PC-3 cells as well as normal prostate PrEC cells. We also determined the involvement of Bcl-2 family proteins as a mechanism of the biological effects of vitamin E and selenium combination.

RESULTS: VES or MSA alone led to a modest inhibition in the viability and growth of PCa cells. However, a combination of these two agents resulted in a dramatic increase in growth inhibition of PCa cells. Interestingly, VES and/or MSA were not found to have any effect on the growth or viability of normal PrEC cells. VES and MSA treatment to human PCa cells resulted in (i) induction of apoptosis, (ii) increase in Bax, Bak, and Bid proteins, and (iii) decrease in Bcl-2 protein. Furthermore, Bax knockdown via shRNA and Bcl-2 overexpression via Bcl-2 plasmid resulted in a rescue of PCa cells from apoptosis.

CONCLUSIONS: Our study suggested that vitamin E and selenium combination may be more effective than either of these agents alone. Further, our data demonstrated a causal connection between Bax and Bcl-2 modulation and induction of apoptosis by VES and MSA combination.

(c) 2008 Wiley-Liss, Inc.

PMID: 18668529 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

I'm not promoting this product or any particular retailer, but for anyone interested, it can pay to shop around.

This site has the 240 ct E Gems Elite for $52 with free shipping.
http://www.supersup.com/carlson-e-gems- ... 8395007729


NHE

fyi re succinate...

from the klenner protocol for ms:

"7) Vitamin E as d-alpha tocopherol acetate of d-alpha tocopherol acid succinate. The latter is more practical since it is a pure form. Complex biochemical changes in the muscle tissue in chronic vitamin E deficiency are followed by histalogical lesions characteristic of muscular dystrophy. Deficiency has also been shown to produce demyelinization and distortion of the axon pattern in the spinal cord, giving rise to hypalgesia and progressive paresis. Fatal massive liver necrosis occurs in animals maintained on diets low in vitamin E and sulfur-containing amino acids; 800 international units before meals and bedtime must be adhered to in this treatment."

_________________
my approach: no meds so far - just balanced whole foods (partial 'paleo', much less outright elimination), science, supplements, & bloodwork
my regimen - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com