The "Problem" with Vitamin D

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Re: The "Problem" with Vitamin D

Postby leonardo » Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:55 am

here some more studies about erythrocyte magnesium:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3533145/
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/34/11/2364.abstract

I can't find the link right now but I remember a study on schzophrenic patients, they had 5-6 times lower MgE level than controls.
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Re: The "Problem" with Vitamin D

Postby jimmylegs » Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:11 pm

in the first study you can see the patients had lower average magnesium but that the numbers did not achieve significance when they ran the stats. would be interesting to get into the full text and see if the researchers controlled for intake of magnesium cofactors or foods that could be protective against mild magnesium deficiency.

in the second study I would not be impressed with the serum mag levels in either patients or controls.. the range should be more like 2.3-2.7
with just these numbers I would be looking at magnesium cofactors as a means to help normalize the distribution. recent research shows fatty acid status may be a player in that dept. zinc definitely is, plus a few more like b6, not to mention the well known calcium and vit d3 connection.. would be nice to tease out whether the controls had better intake of these other things, to help their body manage dietary magnesium deficit.

and speaking of schizophrenia some patients have absent niacin flush response, which is definitely linked in research to fatty acid deficiency.
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Re: The "Problem" with Vitamin D

Postby leonardo » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:10 pm

how do you know if you have not enough or too much magnesium if the symptoms of both are the same?

how much of mg do you recommend when taking 5000UI D3 daily?

how long does it take to fix deficiency?
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Re: The "Problem" with Vitamin D

Postby jimmylegs » Tue Aug 06, 2013 3:56 pm

i'd get a test.. the serum values would be pretty clear on that one i think. with 5,000 iu of d3 daily, i would aim for 400mg of magnesium from FOOD and another 100-200mg of magnesium from a highly absorbable non-laxative form like magnesium glycinate (VERY absorbable) or magnesium citrate (a bit less soluble, but 200mg shouldn't give you GI troubles)
as for a timeframe, it has taken me years to get to the point where i am not quickly symptomatic without daily magnesium supplementation. I've made a huge effort where diet is concerned. I've been lax lately, did a washout for bloodwork and haven't really taken anything lately. diet has not been gold star either. today i can feel my mag levels are suffering, by the background tension in my forearm muscles. it has taken a few weeks for it to get this bad.
make no mistake it's not an easy thing to deal with, takes sustained long term effort. i'd consider backing off on the daily d3 just to give your body a chance to build up some magnesium stores. and i certainly would never turn my nose up at a serum magnesium test :) i just smile and nod when the doc says 'normal, and aim high high high. if i take too much, my muscles will start to feel weak. too little, they feel tensed and tight. bloodwork helps keep it all on track.
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Re: The "Problem" with Vitamin D

Postby leonardo » Sun Aug 11, 2013 3:37 am

After taking magnesium I feel extreme drowsiness combined with weakness. My Mg tablet is made of 1400mg Mg chelat (250Mg of pure mag.) + Zinc + B6

This happens usually after 3-4 days of supplementation. From what I've read I probably have to high mg level or I take to big dose. I also took mg and gave up after 2-3 days because of diarrhea.

Any thoughts on this?

Maybe I should take smaller dose, like 100mg?
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Re: The "Problem" with Vitamin D

Postby jimmylegs » Sun Aug 11, 2013 7:04 am

250 elemental mag, that's a big dose. weakness fatigue and diarrhea sound like excess magnesium. looking at the supplement you describe, i don't know of any foods that deliver 250mg of elemental magnesium with so few cofactors in one serving.

have you calculated how much magnesium you get from your diet? here's a chart to help you do the math if you haven't done so already
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... #foodchart

when supplementing, it's best to take some magnesium at the same time as d3, and some at a separate time. consider 100mg of mag citrate when you take the d3, and 100mg of mag glycinate at another time of day. this combo should not cause any GI issues like diarrhea.

overall you want to aim for at least 400mg of daily magnesium intake, 600 if you can get there. do try to get as much as you can from diet. dark leafy greens like swiss chard and spinach are powerhouses but you have to eat them by the cup, cooked. you'd need 4c of boiled chard per day to meet the 600mg target. luckily it's tasty after a three minute boil, drained and seasoned with butter and a little salt and vinegar :D
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Re: The "Problem" with Vitamin D

Postby Landress » Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:49 am

Jimmylegs... Why does the spinach need to be cooked? I put about two cups raw in my green juice daily.
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Re: The "Problem" with Vitamin D

Postby grandsons4 » Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:01 pm

I've done background research on Piping Rock as a source for supplements; they're quite inexpensive. Has anybody ever purchased from this company, and what do you think?
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Re: The "Problem" with Vitamin D

Postby jimmylegs » Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:58 pm

hi lynne :) is the volume 2 c *after* it's juiced? or is it 2 c volume packed raw leaves that you then juice?

the boiling is to help reduce oxalic acid. it's a one-minute boil for spinach and a 3-minute boil for swiss chard. if you start to feel any foot pain that gives you any suspicions about gout, you may need to watch your intake of oxalic acid.

the only time I had a problem personally, it wasn't purely greens. I was devotedly eating lots of swiss chard (obediently boiled 3m and drained) IN ADDITION to lots of stewed rhubarb. rhubarb is also high in oxalic acid. it put me over the edge. had to back off and then my foot got better.
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Re: The "Problem" with Vitamin D

Postby THX1138 » Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:11 pm

Overdosing Vitamin D3

Carolyn Dean MD ND | Monday, December 24, 2012
Magnesium experts, Morley Robbins, Rick Mather and I are crafting an article on the problems with excess vitamin D. It will shatter a lot of myths about this substance including the fact that it’s not even a vitamin but really a hormone.

To illustrate our point, here is what a member of the The Magnesium Advocacy Group wrote about her experience with Vitamin D3 on Facebook.

“Due to having severe bone lose my doctor told me to take D3 but did not tell me to take magnesium. After being on the D3 at dosage of only 2000mg per day I started having cramps, heart palpitations, fatigue, insomnia, high blood pressure (I had always had low BP ) and many other problems. I thought it was the D3 so I stopped and started doing research to find that you never take D3 without mag. If your magnesium level is already low the D3 will use up more of your magnesium and cause all kinds of problems. All that summer I could not even get out in the sun to get natural vitamin D without getting heart palpitations and cramps in my legs. It has took me almost 2 yrs and I am still not 100%.

She continued. “I have come to believe that with low magnesium everything is off. Your vitamin D will be low because it needs magnesium and your cholesterol will be high if magnesium levels are low. Before taking magnesium my cholesterol was running a little high. Thyroid level was running low and my D was never checked but am sure it was low also but when my blood work was done again after taking magnesium for about 6 months my thyroid levels and cholesterol levels were both back in normal range plus my iron had gone up from 41 to 82 and my B12 had gone from 401 to 800. Fasting blood sugar went from 103 to 98. The only thing I was taking was maggie so I know that is what did it.”

Bottom line? Magnesium is active in over 80% of the body’s biological functions so many of the interrelationships and intricacies haven’t even been studied yet. What do we suggest? Keep taking your magnesium and to balance your vitamin D, use natural sunlight, cod liver oil and butter oil for the necessary vitamin A and vitamin K that make vitamin D work properly. Go to the Weston A. Price Foundation website for more information.

http://drcarolyndean.com/2012/12/overdosing-vitamin-d3/
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