Blood test results

Tell us what you are using to treat your MS-- and how you are doing.

Blood test results

Postby Barry » Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:34 am

It makes sense to get a baseline on some things, so that's what I did. I'm using jimmylegs numbers that can be found on the site.

B12 - aim for 500 pmol/L 205 pmol/L - short there - adding B12 to the daily list of pills....
D3 aim for 100 nmol/L - 98 nmol/L - not bad
zinc aim for 18.2-18.4 umol?L - 14.5 umol/L - a tad low I guess
magnesium aim for .91 mmol/L - .83 mmol/L - a tad low again...
ferritin >300 ug/L = overload - 396 ug/L - no more steak? :cry:
uric acid - forgot to ask.... :?
hemoglobin 165 g/L - top of their range. Came in high on MCV 109 fL and MCH 37.8 pg. A quick google shows that a low
B12 is the reason.

My daily pill take. LDN 1.5 mg, D3 - 5000 IU - calcium magnesium 333 mg / 167 mg, fish oil - EPA 180 DHA 120 - 2000 IU, and a good multivitamin http://www.puritan.com/mens-vitamins-00 ... 46#product

Overall I'm happy with these numbers. It might show what a healthy diet can do to help manage things.

I guess it's a good idea to get this done in 6 months to see where things are. Any B12 dosage thoughts?
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Re: Blood test results

Postby jimmylegs » Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:56 pm

heya! if you bump up the zinc you may see a tag-along improvement in your b12 status, and d3 status. i would definitely push the zinc level a bit higher if possible. but do ensure that a healthy copper balance is maintained.

definitely could stand to increase magnesium

ferritin 396, ouch! i have heard of increased risk of disease associated with levels over 200 ug/L, but will have to look that up.

klenner protocol for ms advises hemoglobin at least 13. that would be 133 using your units, i imagine. will have to do a little more reading on hemoglobin in order to provide any comment. reasonable to assume links to the higher end ferritin level.

as for dosage, i would add a daily zinc supplement and then remeasure. you may not need so much daily d3 or calcium once your zinc situation improves.

so anyway. great that you obtained these baseline numbers. the ferritin/hemoglobin situation definitely deserves further attention! possible links to zinc there also...
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Re: Blood test results

Postby jimmylegs » Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:11 pm

i wonder if bringing the zinc up could help bring the ferritin down. it's known that taking one affects the other. relevant studies (previously posted elsewhere here at TiMS):

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15957506
Serum ferritin, transferrin and soluble transferrin receptor levels in multiple sclerosis patients.
Over the last few years, increased evidence has supported the role of iron dysregulation in the pathogenesis of multiple sclerosis (MS), as iron is essential for myelin formation and oxidative phosphorylation. We studied indices of iron metabolism, such as serum iron, ferritin, transferrin and soluble transferrin receptor (sTFR) levels in 27 MS patients. Seven patients had chronic progressive active disease (CP-A), six had chronic progressive stable (CP-S), ten had relapsing—remitting active (RR-A) and four had relapsing—remitting stable (RR-S) disease. sTFR levels were found to be significantly higher in CP-A (P=0.021) and RR-A (P= 0.004) patients than in controls. sTFR levels were also elevated in CP-S patients but did not reach significance (P=0.064). sTFR values in RR-S patients were comparable to those found in controls (P=0.31). Ferritin levels were significantly elevated only in CP-A patients (P= 0.002). Patients of the CP group had significantly higher ferritin values than the RR patients (P= 0.004). Haemoglobin values as well as iron and transferrin levels were within normal limits in all patients. In conclusion, the increased serum sTFR and ferritin levels in nonanaemic MS patients with active disease reflect the increased iron turnover. The mild elevation of sTFR levels in CP-S patients may indicate active inflammation with ongoing oxidative damage that is not detectable by history or examination.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18073202
J Biol Chem. 2008 Feb 22;283(8):5168-77.
Zinc deficiency-induced iron accumulation, a consequence of alterations in iron regulatory protein-binding activity, iron transporters, and iron storage proteins.
Abstract
One consequence of zinc deficiency is an elevation in cell and tissue iron concentrations. To examine the mechanism(s) underlying this phenomenon, Swiss 3T3 cells were cultured in zinc-deficient (D, 0.5 microM zinc), zinc-supplemented (S, 50 microM zinc), or control (C, 4 microM zinc) media. After 24 h of culture, cells in the D group were characterized by a 50% decrease in intracellular zinc and a 35% increase in intracellular iron relative to cells in the S and C groups. The increase in cellular iron was associated with increased transferrin receptor 1 protein and mRNA levels and increased ferritin light chain expression. The divalent metal transporter 1(+)iron-responsive element isoform mRNA was decreased during zinc deficiency-induced iron accumulation. Examination of zinc-deficient cells revealed increased binding of iron regulatory protein 2 (IRP2) and decreased binding of IRP1 to a consensus iron-responsive element. The increased IRP2-binding activity in zinc-deficient cells coincided with an increased level of IRP2 protein. The accumulation of IRP2 protein was independent of zinc deficiency-induced intracellular nitric oxide production but was attenuated by the addition of the antioxidant N-acetylcysteine or ascorbate to the D medium. These data support the concept that zinc deficiency can result in alterations in iron transporter, storage, and regulatory proteins, which facilitate iron accumulation.
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Re: Blood test results

Postby jimmylegs » Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:37 am

hey barry,

collected a bit more info. elevated ferritin is associated with:

inflammatory illness (eg ms, rheumatoid arthritis, epstein barr virus - and potential associated chronic anemia), lupus, hepatitis, excess alcohol, and hemochromatosis. docs working to rule out hemochromatosis should look at all those plus any history of transfusions or possibly porphyria cutanea tarda. http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1 ... fferential

ordinarily i'd go after anemia of chronic disease first, but given the higher end hemoglobin in your case, i wonder.. have you read anything on hemochromatosis? there has been quite a bit of discussion on it here at TiMS. couple years ago i had a neighbour who had hemochromatosis and he said over time he had grown aware enough that he could feel when his serum ferritin levels were up in the 400 range. the treatment (phlebotomy) was one that he needed regularly. he was relatively new to the area, and when he arrived he had had to teach his doctor about his condition and the treatment. thee may need to find thyself a knowledgeable leach with fleam at the ready :)

you will be able to find lots of reading here if you look up hemochromatosis, porphyria, phlebotomy, etc.
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Re: Blood test results

Postby jimmylegs » Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:25 am

more info

ferritin: the test
http://labtestsonline.org/understanding ... n/tab/test

http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/hemochromatos ... tment.html
"Normal hemoglobin levels range from 12–16 g/dL for females and 14–18 g/dL for males (Merck Manual, 1999)."
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Re: Blood test results

Postby Barry » Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:18 am

Thanks for finding all that info, jimmylegs. Much appreciated! :-BD

Did a bunch of reading last night. It seems that an easy way to reduce ferritin is to donate blood on a
regular basis. I can do that! I'm pretty sure that it's as high as it is due to my long time love of beer. Don't drink
hardly at all anymore but being a Detroit Lions fan, a couple on Sunday is justified. :wink:

Upping zinc and magnesium makes perfect sense and that's easy to do.

While researching B12 I found out that the methylcobalamin version is best for those of us with MS. A number of sites said, " The methylcobalamin form of Vitamin B12 is very important in the prevention of neurological disorders, as it prevents nerve damage by maintaining myelin, the fatty sheaths that cover and protect nerve endings. While the most common form of Vitamin B12 is cyanocobalamin, it is the methylcobalamin form that is needed to protect against central and peripheral neurological diseases."

Who'da thunk it. Gotta love the net.
I run a fun little forum site – www.CanadiansTalk.net – check it out. You don't have to be
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Re: Blood test results

Postby jimmylegs » Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:31 am

great idea re donating blood! if they don't accept it for any reason, phlebotomy is another option you can pursue.

yay re upping zinc and mag!

re methylcobalamin, absolutely. cyanocobalamin mixes cyanide and cobalamin, it last longer on the shelf. your body has to take it apart and then turn it into methylcobalamin form (among other things) before your body can use it.
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Re: Blood test results

Postby Barry » Thu Feb 27, 2014 12:55 pm

Thanks for all the advice jimmylegs. Got my 2nd set of blood work done.

Need to get the B12 and mag up and tweak the zinc.
Sorry about the poor formatting...... :?

aim for Nov 2012 Feb 2014

B12 500 pmol/L 205 312
D3 100 nmol/L 98 134
Zinc 18.2 umol/L 14.5 16.5
Mag .91 mnol/L .83 .81
Ferritin 396 84
Hemoglobin 165 165
[align]
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Re: Blood test results

Postby jimmylegs » Thu Feb 27, 2014 7:23 pm

hey glad you are making progress!

great job on the ferritin. that's an excellent level.

info for dietary magnesium (pay attention to mgs per serving and aim for 600mg daily intake from a variety of mag source foods).
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... #foodchart

dietary zinc info
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... #foodchart
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