No Lesions, Can it still be MS?

This is the place to ask questions if you have symptoms that suggest MS, but aren't yet diagnosed.

No Lesions, Can it still be MS?

Postby JessieL86 » Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:46 am

I have been generally tired and dizzy for years, but has progressively gotten bad in the past year.
Then about 4 months ago I developed numbness in my entire right leg, which has yet to have been resolved.
The dizziness has been bad enough to keep me from driving and unable to go to work, I am able to work from home although I need breaks from time to time. (ENT says everything is fine with ears)
I have nystagmus (where my eyes jerk or shake back and forth)
I have developed floaters, I see bright flashes from loud sounds, I see spots in my peripheral vision, etc. (Been to Ophtamologist he says everything is fine.)
Tingling in back and sides of head from time to time
intermitten twitches all the time
vibrating (mostly in L Breast)
hiccups
chest pains/ fluttering heart (EKG and chest xray normal)
Zigzag Zap-like pain from heart to nose (one time only)

I have been tested for lyme (been to a top leading lyme specialist who does more specific testing and sends to special lab) results are negative
I have been tested for all the leading autoimmune disorders (all neg)
My blood level and vitamins etc are all excellent (no deficiencies anywhere)
I have gone to nuerologist many times, the first test he did was MRI of brain and lumbar and cervical spine, all MRI's were normal..

I am still having all these sympotms.. I am confused and its to the point where drs are starting to think I am making all this up!

My question is; Can you have MS with a negative MRI result?
JessieL86
Getting to Know You...
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:31 am

Advertisement

Re: No Lesions, Can it still be MS?

Postby JessieL86 » Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:03 am

I also wanted to say that I am a 27 year old female. I have always been slightly underweight. I have been generally weak/ tired my whole life. However, I have always had a healthy mostly organic whole foods diet, I dont drink, I dont smoke, I dont drink coffee or soda, I dont eat fat free foods, I stay away from highly processed foods, etc etc etc.. Generally healthy as a horse as more than one dr has said.. so there should be no outer reasons for my symptoms.
JessieL86
Getting to Know You...
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:31 am

Re: No Lesions, Can it still be MS?

Postby jimmylegs » Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:27 am

hey there, might be worth having a closer look at the vitamin and mineral status. 'normal' is one thing, includes both sick and healthy subjects. 'healthy' or 'optimal' is another much smaller range that isn't used in standard practice. you have to hunt for it in the literature. so if you have lab tests i can have a look at the results for you. if you don't feel comfortable posting publicly there's the 'private message' option (PM icon bottom left) if you like. another useful bit of data would be a three day diet diary to look for nutrient gaps or absorption conflicts. the nystagmus, twitches, vibrating, hiccups, chest pain, and heart flutter all suggest a magnesium issue to me. if you like we could just start with that. do you have a serum magnesium result on file?
jimmylegs
Volunteer Moderator
 
Posts: 9156
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 3:00 pm

Re: No Lesions, Can it still be MS?

Postby JessieL86 » Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:12 am

Hi Jimmylegs,

Thank you so much for your reply. I dont actually have a copy of my records on hand, I got a copy and looked through them very carefully myself but I took them to another dr and forgot to make myself a seperate copy. I did read the range for all the dietary levels and all my results were on the higher ranger, like not boarderline.

I dont think they tested my serum magnesium, but you think that my symptoms fit a lack of magnesium? That would be really great if it were something simple like that!
JessieL86
Getting to Know You...
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:31 am

Re: No Lesions, Can it still be MS?

Postby JessieL86 » Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:49 am

Interesting fact..... I just remembered that my sister mentioned to me that she started taking a powder magnesium calcium suppliment that was suggested to her by someone at the local healthfood store and she says that it has changed her life! (she used to get migrains and general fatigue) She was preaching it to me a couple of months ago and I kind of thought that it couldnt be so simple I had so many odd symptoms, so I kind of poo pooed her. Honestly I just did a quick google search and came up with a few great articles listing basically allll my symptoms and I am shocked! Not one dr has brought this up to me, all the drs say that my blood tests look great and its not a defiencey anywhere.. I mean I have been basically house ridden for months now and feeling awful for years, I have been to dr after dr and have really hit a wall, I am beyond giddy that it could be something so simple!!!

I do eat very healthy, alot of whole grains, alot of organic veggies, etc. But perhaps my body isnt absorbing the magnesium needed (celiac does run in my family). I have been gluton free for about a month now and I have to be honest that my symptoms are more managable lately.

Is there any suppliments or suggestions to help with magnesium deficiency?
JessieL86
Getting to Know You...
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:31 am

Re: No Lesions, Can it still be MS?

Postby jimmylegs » Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:47 am

hey you're welcome :) any chance you can get another copy of your results from the doc's office? sometimes you can be right in the middle of 'normal' and it's just not good enough. the system needs a LOT of work!

re magnesium, you need 400mg per day for maintenance and more like 600mg per day if you're symptomatic.

here is an excellent dietary calculation resource for magnesium (and many other nutrients):
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... #foodchart

note that a 1 c serving of boiled spinach or chard provides about 150mg of magnesium. so based on boiled spinach alone you'd need to get 3c. daily to meet your basic requirements, and more like 4c to hit therapeutic restoration requirements. i'm having deja vu, just had this conversation yesterday w/ a personal friend having a devastating pms day. (after i mentioned spinach and she said 'but i eat spinach all the time'). and i had it last week w/ another acquaintance dealing with migraines. moving on, using brown rice alone, you need 5c per day.

what you can do is write down your diet, go through everything and look at magnesium content by serving size, see how much you think you can feasibly accomplish with diet (be realistic here, you don't do yourself any favours by kidding yourself about what you will really eat - I've done that before and paid the price) and consider a supplement to make up the balance. i would suggest magnesium glycinate as a useful supplemental form.

if celiac runs in your family, look long and hard at zinc status too. be aware that the 'normal' range for zinc is a total joke. you can start with assessing your diet for zinc antinutrients. gluten is a big one. zinc levels increase to a degree in anyone on a gluten free diet. in celiac patients, even more so. (iron is another nutrient that is better retained on a gluten free diet). altogether, the fact that you feel better on GFD is telling. phytates are another zinc binding influence you might want to watch. that's not to say never never have gluten or phytates, just be aware that they have to be balanced so that can keep your zinc status right at the very top of the normal range. with zinc, you want to choose something like zinc citrate and ensure that the supplement is balanced with some copper (eg copper citrate) in the ratio of 50:2 - 50mg zinc, 2mg copper (matches your typical distribution in food sources)

again if you can get your hands on the nutrient tests, we can have a look at where you were at when tested, and how far you might have to go.
jimmylegs
Volunteer Moderator
 
Posts: 9156
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 3:00 pm

Re: No Lesions, Can it still be MS?

Postby jimmylegs » Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:56 am

(and, ^5 to your sis - it is a lifechanger! :D :D :D )
jimmylegs
Volunteer Moderator
 
Posts: 9156
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 3:00 pm

Re: No Lesions, Can it still be MS?

Postby JessieL86 » Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:15 pm

Seriously, High five to you too!

I have been really frustrated, our bodys know when something is wrong and the drs really sometimes are no help at all! It really is up to ourselves to follow up and read up and educate ourselves. Drs always tell me to stop googling, youll make yourself crazy.. true, but if you arent getting answers from drs then what else can you do?

It could have taken years for the right dr to come my way and let me know what is really going on. All my drs have said "its not this or its not that so go see this dr, they ALL have said that, none wanted to do any real follow up work, or have any reponsiblity really its a shame.. and I am ranting and I am sure everyone here feels pretty much the same about most drs, so preachin to the choir.

Again, I thank you and I will try out some suppliments and let you know how it goes. And I will get my blood work results and post my levels in the mean time.

THANK YOU!
JessieL86
Getting to Know You...
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:31 am

Re: No Lesions, Can it still be MS?

Postby jimmylegs » Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:23 pm

JessieL86 wrote:Seriously, High five to you too!
:D
JessieL86 wrote:It really is up to ourselves to follow up and read up and educate ourselves.
YOU SAID IT. my biggest takeaway from this whole ms ride is that my health is my responsibility, and you have to look out for number one. your health is way more important to you than it is to any doctor out there no matter how fantastic. and there are serious limitations to mainstream medicine - it's not their fault, somehow they manage to graduate knowing next to nothing about nutrition science.
JessieL86 wrote:Again, I thank you and I will try out some suppliments and let you know how it goes. And I will get my blood work results and post my levels in the mean time. THANK YOU!
yvw - i'll keep an eye open for updates :) fyi, magnesium kicks in fast. you should notice a difference within a day or two. at one time, i was so depleted and therefore so sensitive to it that once i realized what it felt like, i could feel it kick in two hours after taking a pill. it's fascinating :)
jimmylegs
Volunteer Moderator
 
Posts: 9156
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 3:00 pm

Re: No Lesions, Can it still be MS?

Postby JessieL86 » Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:29 pm

My sister said the same thing, about it kicking in fast, she said that I will feel better by tonight!

Wow!

Hope this is what my body need :) !!!
JessieL86
Getting to Know You...
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:31 am

Re: No Lesions, Can it still be MS?

Postby jimmylegs » Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:34 pm

good luck with it :D i forgot to link you up with the healthy zinc foods chart, here it is http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... #foodchart
note that the recommended daily value they're using is only ~15mg. that's pretty low...
jimmylegs
Volunteer Moderator
 
Posts: 9156
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 3:00 pm

Re: No Lesions, Can it still be MS?

Postby jimmylegs » Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:06 pm

I sent this magnesium-tastic spanakopita recipe to my friend the migraineur on Friday

1 large loaf pan
1 box frozen phyllo pastry (whole wheat if you can find it)
1 box frozen chopped spinach
1 bunch swiss chard
1 bunch black kale (best to use small/organic - not one of those huge curly kale bunches, way too much)
1 bunch green onions
1 bunch parsley
1 bunch dill
1 block feta
1 egg
Salt and pepper to taste
Olive oil
Milk for brushing pastry (or use the last drops of beaten egg from whatever you beat it in)

Instructions:
Take the phyllo pastry and frozen spinach out of the freezer.
Keep the phyllo wrapped up until the filling is ready to go.
Place the frozen spinach in a colander to thaw (once thawed you will press out excess liquid).

Meanwhile wash and chop the chard and kale.
Boil these for three minutes, drain and press out excess liquid. Put aside in a large bowl.
Wash up and spin the onions and herbs.
Slice up the white part of the green onions, then chop up the rest and set aside.
Finely chop the parsley and dill and set aside (optional: save one or two tablespoonsful of dill for future use w/ tzatziki sauce).

For the next step, make sure the spinach is done thawing and excess liquid is expressed.
In a large pot, sauté the green onion in a little oil.
When the onion starts to get brown, add the rest of the green onion stems, thawed spinach, parsley, and dill. Mix the onions and herbs through, add a little water, cover, and wilt.
When greens are wilted but not dull, remove cover, drain off any excess liquid, and add to the large bowl of drained kale and chard. Mix all the greens together. you basically want everything warm, wilted down, not too wet.

Next you turn the greens into pie filling.
Beat the egg, crumble the feta cheese, pour both over the greens mix in the large bowl. Mix through. Added salt and pepper optional.

Preheat the oven to 350F.

Oil the loaf pan and line with phyllo pastry (6 sheets’ thickness). Ensure pastry hangs over the side so that the filling can be entirely wrapped up and enclosed.
Add the greens mix and tuck the phyllo pastry around the filling. Brush the top of the pie with a drop of milk (or egg), for browning.

Bake at 350F for 20-25 minutes or until pastry turns golden. Remove from oven and allow to cool slightly before slicing out portions. Should serve 6-8.

Serving suggestion: enjoy with tzatziki sauce and greek salad.

Tzatziki Sauce: using a 454g tub of plain yogurt, mix in the juice of half a lemon, or some vinegar. Grate in some peeled cucumber. Season with garlic and salt to taste. Garnish with chopped dill.

Magnesium-tastic!
jimmylegs
Volunteer Moderator
 
Posts: 9156
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 3:00 pm

Re: No Lesions, Can it still be MS?

Postby JessieL86 » Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:14 pm

Thanks!

I am trying to find the best Magnesium suppliment to take, like healthy-wise, as well as should I pair with with Zinc and Calcium, or take Magnesium-Cal in one?? Ahh I am a little bit lost.
JessieL86
Getting to Know You...
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:31 am

Re: No Lesions, Can it still be MS?

Postby jimmylegs » Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:34 pm

nah if you have magnesium issues you want to increase your mag:cal ratio. if you take calcium too you just push up the calcium side of the ratio. also magnesium and calcium compete for absorption so if you use both, you're kind of working against yourself when boosting mag is the objective. stick with plain old magnesium for the time being. let your food provide the calcium piece. you can take zinc separately too.

ok where are you located, roughly?
jimmylegs
Volunteer Moderator
 
Posts: 9156
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 3:00 pm

Re: No Lesions, Can it still be MS?

Postby JessieL86 » Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:51 pm

I am located in NY, on an island called staten... ha. I am originally from NJ where there was a local health food store and whole foods not far. I would always go to those places for things like vitamins etc. So I am just a bit hesitant to walk into like a GNC, I am afraid of vitamins that have use GMO's etc.
JessieL86
Getting to Know You...
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:31 am

Next

Return to Undiagnosed

 


  • Related topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users


Contact us | Terms of Service