Dx Possible MS Jimmylegs was right about low mag.!

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Dx Possible MS Jimmylegs was right about low mag.!

Postby saja » Thu Jan 16, 2014 4:15 pm

I had my follow-up with my doctor today. She said she had good news and not so good news. Good news was that all of my blood work came back great except that I am magnesium deficient. Magnesium RBC 3.4. She prescribed 400 mg a day, taken at night. I normally take 3 x 250 mg. of mag. citrate a day, but admit I have been out for about a month and just got a new bottle. She said if I can tolerate that dose without stomach upset to go ahead and continue. She said that my urinalysis was fine but on the report I was given it says that it was abnormal showing leukocytes, UA and next to it it says TRACE (A). Also shows WBC, UA as 6-10 (A). I have NO clue what that all means and couldn't ask because I am just now reading over that report.
MRI report says: Impression-Unremarkable examination of the brain and internal auditory canals, with no evidence for any mass lesions.

That was all the "good news" she said. The bad news is that she doesn't know what's wrong with me. She did say that could possibly be MS but that she did not want to get ahead of things. Whatever that means....I guess she is doing what she should by trying to rule out things. She referred me to a neurologist since the last one wouldn't take my insurance, so I have to make an appointment with him tomorrow. She asked me if there was anything new that was going on, I said no and that was pretty much it. She told me to make an appointment with her once I met with the neuro to talk about his findings and how I felt about what he says. So, I guess I have just began the waiting game.

I certainly did not expect a Dx today by any means but it sure is awful having to go through all of this. And I could have months or years ahead. I just wonder what I should be doing in the meantime? I hope that I am wrong, but I honestly do think that this is MS. I suffered all day Sunday and Sunday night with a burning sensation on my bum :sad: Today, it's right across the tops of my thighs. Any advice at all about how to "treat" myself while I play the waiting game would be most welcomed!

Hope all of you are having a good evening with few or NO symptoms! Thank for reading! :smile:
~Saja~

"Nature does nothing uselessly"
*Aristotle*
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Re: Dx Possible MS Jimmylegs was right about low mag.!

Postby jimmylegs » Thu Jan 16, 2014 8:03 pm

hey there, glad you got an answer you can act on with the magnesium result! this is pure good news - mri doesn't indicate ms, and you DO know what's wrong. magnesium deficiency is not a joke! what other tests were done, if i may ask? want to make sure that i agree with the 'great' assessment :)

at the risk of repeating myself ;) lol! here's some mag info:

aim for at least 600mg magnesium intake per day. find a magnesium glycinate supplement for best absorption - better than citrate.

magnesium-rich foods with mgs per serving - build as much of these as possible into your daily 600mg intake:
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... #foodchart

you can also track down a magnesium-rich mineral water - tap water has magnesium removed so that the mineral scale buildup doesn't clog the works.

Epsom salts (mag sulfate) baths can help too. or concentrated solutions (eg 1c mag salts to 1c water) can be applied topically.

i don't know a target for RBC magnesium off the top of my head. will have to dig around for a target. questions: what were the units for the RBC magnesium result, and what reference range was provided by the lab that did the test?

if you send me a three day diet diary, i can have a look for dietary gaps and other things that might be interfering with magnesium absorption. it's possible that you have related deficiencies to investigate if you have had a chronic magnesium deficit situation.
READ ME key info on nutrient targets - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: Dx Possible MS Jimmylegs was right about low mag.!

Postby saja » Fri Jan 17, 2014 11:06 am

jimmylegs wrote:hey there, glad you got an answer you can act on with the magnesium result! this is pure good news - mri doesn't indicate ms, and you DO know what's wrong. magnesium deficiency is not a joke! what other tests were done, if i may ask? want to make sure that i agree with the 'great' assessment :)

at the risk of repeating myself ;) lol! here's some mag info:

aim for at least 600mg magnesium intake per day. find a magnesium glycinate supplement for best absorption - better than citrate.

magnesium-rich foods with mgs per serving - build as much of these as possible into your daily 600mg intake:
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... #foodchart

you can also track down a magnesium-rich mineral water - tap water has magnesium removed so that the mineral scale buildup doesn't clog the works.

Epsom salts (mag sulfate) baths can help too. or concentrated solutions (eg 1c mag salts to 1c water) can be applied topically.

i don't know a target for RBC magnesium off the top of my head. will have to dig around for a target. questions: what were the units for the RBC magnesium result, and what reference range was provided by the lab that did the test?

if you send me a three day diet diary, i can have a look for dietary gaps and other things that might be interfering with magnesium absorption. it's possible that you have related deficiencies to investigate if you have had a chronic magnesium deficit situation.



Hi Jimmylegs!

Thanks so much for the reply. Yesterday, I felt a little confused and lost about everything but today I feel much more hopeful and very pleased with my answers so far. Further researching mag. deficiency has amazed me at the symptoms and the terrible things this condition can cause. Holy cow! I really am the poster child for mag. deficiency! 8O
Funny thing, my body has been screaming for it for ages! For the last two weeks I have craved and been drinking mineral water like crazy, chocolate and spinach too. I checked my water and it has 7% mag. I suspect I can find some with a higher content, or is this pretty good for water? I started my mag. supplements last night. I do have my neuro appointment set now, for the 20th of Feb. and am very interested in what he will find and have to say. Do you know if this can cause permanent nerve damage? Trying to pin down this dang tremor, it's the bane of my existence! It's so pronounced and embarrassing. Anyway, below are the things that they tested and my values. I like doing this detective work, it makes me feel like I am doing something to help myself rather than feeling helpless. I wonder if this IS my problem and there is no MS?!!! I guess time will tell but that would be great once we figure out why I am so low.
Thanks again, and I will try to get a 3 days food diary started and PM you. I hope you're having a good day, I am very grateful for your help and friendship!

Value

WBC= 7.7
RBC= 4.79
Hemoglobin= 14.0
Hematocrit= 41.7
MCV= 87.1
MCH= 29.3
MCHC= 33.6
RDW= 13.2
Platelets= 308
Glucose= 100
BUN= 9
Creatinine= 0.58
GFR MDRD Non Af Amer= 109
GFR MDRD af Amer=126
Sodium= 137
Potassium= 4.0
Chloride= 107
CO2= 23
Calcium= 9.6
Total Protein= 7.1
Albumin= 4.6G
Globulin= 2.5
Albumin/Globulin Ratio = 1.8
Total Bilirubin = 0.4
Alkaline Phosphatase= 60
AST = 11
ALT= 8
Vitamin B-12 (serum test) = 1083
RPR (DX) TITER and Confirmatory Test = NON-REACTIVE
SED RATE By MODIFIED WESTERNGREN= 9
ANA= Negative
Cholesterol Total=188
HDL = 54
Triglycerides = 107
LDL Cholesterol = 113
Chol/HDL Ratio= 3.5
Non HDL Cholesterol = 134
Magnesium RBC 3.4 (Range & Units = 4.0-6.4mg/dL
Folate = >24.0
~Saja~

"Nature does nothing uselessly"
*Aristotle*
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Re: Dx Possible MS Jimmylegs was right about low mag.!

Postby thejeeperswife » Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:23 pm

Hi saja,

I understand your feeling about the waiting game. I'm seeing the specialist-neurologist on February 5, while my symptoms only get worse. You feel stuck and always in pain/numb/twitching/tremors/burning/etc. Just hang in there. It might be next week, months, or years before doctors can figure out something. I have been waiting for seven years. The Number #1 thing is to not stop trying to figure out. Keep going to the physicians, get second/third/fourth options. I keep telling myself I will have peace of mind one day (diagnosis one way or another). I hope you find your peace very soon so you may be healthy and happy.

Good Luck.
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Re: Dx Possible MS Jimmylegs was right about low mag.!

Postby saja » Fri Jan 17, 2014 3:20 pm

thejeeperswife wrote:Hi saja,

I understand your feeling about the waiting game. I'm seeing the specialist-neurologist on February 5, while my symptoms only get worse. You feel stuck and always in pain/numb/twitching/tremors/burning/etc. Just hang in there. It might be next week, months, or years before doctors can figure out something. I have been waiting for seven years. The Number #1 thing is to not stop trying to figure out. Keep going to the physicians, get second/third/fourth options. I keep telling myself I will have peace of mind one day (diagnosis one way or another). I hope you find your peace very soon so you may be healthy and happy.

Good Luck.


Hi, it's nice to meet you. Thanks so much for the kind words. I'm glad that you get to see the specialist on the 5th, I see mine on the 20th. I hope that we both at least get closer to finding an answer. It's so hard not to let this take over everything else in your life. I'm trying hard to NOT focus so much on it and do the things that I love and make me happy. It is hard when symptoms are bad and distract you from everyday life. I'll be feeling fine, working on something when suddenly something will go numb or my hand will spaz out and mess me up. But, keeping a good outlook is key. I agree with you on not giving up trying to find out. I'm only at the starting point here and I'm pretty sure by the way it seems this goes that I have a long road ahead. I'm trying to find ways to continue on with life while I keep looking for answers. I'm so sorry that your symptoms are getting worse and hope that you'll get some relief soon. I know you and I and many others will have peace of mind, in time. I also wish you health and happiness and if you ever need a friend, please feel free to call on me. I'm new to this detective work stuff but have suffered over 20 years, so I certainly understand. Best wishes to you!
~Saja~

"Nature does nothing uselessly"
*Aristotle*
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Re: Dx Possible MS Jimmylegs was right about low mag.!

Postby jimmylegs » Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:13 pm

hi again saja - b12 level looks really good. I'm a bit surprised there's no serum ferritin level, given all the other tests on that list!

always a good idea to examine potassium when magnesium is a problem.. do you have the units and range for the potassium result? [i think it must be mEq/L (same thing as mmol/L) but just want to make sure]

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency ... 003484.htm
"The normal range is 3.7 to 5.2 mEq/L."

http://link.springer.com/article/10.100 ... 010-2029-9
"The lowest tertile of serum potassium (2.8–3.9 mmol/l) was independently associated with the development of diabetes after adjustment for known predictors (HR 1.57 [95% CI, 1.15–2.15]) compared with the highest tertile (4.2–5.4 mmol/l). Every 0.5 mmol/l lower increment in the baseline serum potassium level was associated with a 45% (12–87%) increased risk of diabetes."

http://content.onlinejacc.org/article.a ... id=1132910
"It is desirable to avoid hypokalemia in cardiovascular patients. In AMI and HF, it seems beneficial to aim for serum potassium levels above 4.5 mmol/l (Table 4). ... It would appear wise to avoid potassium levels above 5.5 mmol/l"

if i were you I'd aim for 5 mmol/L serum potassium.

potassium-rich foods http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?dbid ... #foodchart
yahoo for greens and sweet potatoes! :D
READ ME key info on nutrient targets - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: Dx Possible MS Jimmylegs was right about low mag.!

Postby jimmylegs » Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:38 am

hi again saja

I was just looking over your blood work again and thought I would follow up on the potassium issue. specifically I've been looking at the sodium potassium ratio.

found this study:

Serum sodium/potassium ratio [SSPR] in patients with rheumatoid arthritis and osteoarthritis
http://www.pagepress.org/journals/index ... rr.2010.e5
SSPR of patients with RA, OA and healthy controls was within the recognized normal range (27-40). The lowest SSPR was found in healthy controls: 30.9±2.4. Significantly higher values were found in the RA group (32.9±2.9; P less then 0.001) and OA patients (34.3±2.1; P less then 0.001).

using the serum Na and K results you have posted, your SSPR is 137/4 = 34.25

so, that's a match for the worst off patient group and not the healthy controls (again, both of which are technically 'normal').

your low potassium status is consistent with the chronic low magnesium situation.

now: if we look more closely at the SSPR range for healthy controls, that would be 30.9±2.4 ie 28.5-33.3.

if you went for serum potassium of 5 as I suggested above, with no change to serum sodium, your SSPR would be 27.4. (ie still 'normal', but even lower than healthy controls in the study above)

a potassium level of 4.8 would be one way to get your SSPR up to 28.5, so either way a potassium increase appears to be one good way forward for you.

I'd be happier if I could see serum levels in the study above and not just ratios, but increasing potassium is not going to hurt.

daily intake target should be 3500-4200mg dietary potassium.

here is an excellent tool for comparing nutrient content in different foods http://www.healthaliciousness.com/nutri ... ompare.php
you can look at which ones have the most magnesium and potassium together, which have the lowest sodium given their high potassium content, anything. so handy!

here's that list of potassium-rich foods again - enjoy! :) http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?dbid ... #foodchart
and the magnesium chart too: http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... #foodchart
READ ME key info on nutrient targets - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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