MS lesions without diagnoses

[MacRemington]

Hey everyone, my name is Mac, I am 31, and here is my story:


4/1/16
Started using Cellular super hd thermogenic (diet pills) helped me drop 15 pounds over 3 months of use while working out. In the past I had EBV antibodies with a higher than normal white blood count. I had used allimed (highly concentrated garlic extract) and colloidal silver to treat and prevent infections.

7/27/16
Had three teeth extracted (2 wisdom, 1 molar) local anesthesia only. Was in a lot of pain, so taking norco, and ibuprofen, and amoxicillin. I did not eat much food during this period, and continued the thermogenic use. Was also using allimed and collidal silver to treat a rotten tooth that required a root canal.

8/4/16
I was playing poker and lost a large hand with pocket aces pre flop all in against jack 10 to a very rude player. ( for those that don't know I had 90% odds of winning since we were all in pre flop) On this day I haven't eaten anything, but had taken the thermogenic said, while drinking coffee. The night before I had a few beers along with the norco ( Yes I know terrible to mix!) My body began to tremor. I got up after sitting for hours, went to the bathroom (urinated) and as I was walking to get some water (feeling dizzy, dehydrated, and upset) I collapsed while grabbing my left arm. When I woke up, which seemed immediately after falling on my face, the floor manager instructed me to stay on the ground as he thought I had a heart attack, stroke, or seizure. I did not have medical insurance at the time, so I denied the paramedics from taking me to the e.r. In my car about 45 mins later it happened again. sharp shooting pain / or numbness in my left arm. Eyes rolled back in my head, felt like I was dying. I sat in my car for hours, drinking water, with my hand ready to dial 911. Eventually I felt better and able to drive home.
The next day I was very anxious and paranoid. I had two light beers that evening while watching a movie. I ran upstairs to use the restroom (urinating) and it happened again in the bathroom. I felt it coming so I fell on my butt, but had the same pain and or numbness in my left arm and was grabbing it as I fell. This time I was grabbing it so hard I believe I dislocated it and then put it back into place. I did have an injury playing golf on the same arm/shoulder a few years ago as well. The next month was full of anxiety and panic attacks. Every time I drove I felt dizzy and as if The episode was going to happen again. Blurry / double vision that would come and go.

Difficulty breathing (had to manual breathe.) I was constantly pulling over and using breathing techniques to calm down. I saw a doctor who said it was all simply fainting and anxiety. He prescribed me Xanax. Once my health insurance was back in full I saw another doctor who ordered lots of heart and blood tests. Blood tests all normal, excessive heart test normal with one irregular beat. 14 day heart monitor normal. Heart echo test normal but noted:
Mitral Valve: The mitral valve leaflets appear normal. There is no evidence of stenosis, fluttering, or prolapse. There is trivial mitral regurgitation.
Tricuspid Valve: The tricuspid valve is normal in structure and function. There is trace tricuspid regurgitation. Unable to estimate PA systolic pressure due to poor TR signal.
Pulmonic Valve: The pulmonic valve is not well visualized. There is trace pulmonic regurgitation.
I also wore a heart monitor for 14 days which was normal except for one irregular heart beat.
8-16-16
Had a root canal done where the doctor did not use enough anesthisia. Sharp pain caused my body to go into a panic attack. My hands went numb, my arms were shaking. After 30 minutes I calmed down enough to drive to a root canal specialist to finish the job.
8-20-16
While attending a weeding I developed a facial twitch from my lower right eyelid, upper right cheek, and upper right lip that would continue, NON STOP for 6 weeks straight. At night I could hear a rapid loud thumping if I laid on my right side. The inner ear on my right side would flutter at random. I found some tablets called "SPSM" which are calcium, magnesium, and Chinese herbs which gave me relief from the twitching. It has now stopped (knocks on wood) I also had muscle spasms all over my body at random. And when I say all over, even down there (which really freaked me out) My left leg, calf and knee have been numb/ sore off and on this entire time. I had sharp chest pain for 6 weeks constantly. My wrists have shooting pain and bulging veins at random. My hands are numb at random and sometimes I have difficulty writing / brushing my teeth. I wake up every night gasping for air around 3am. I had a few days of extreme fatigue where I could barely lift my backpack up. I was afraid I had guillian bar syndrome, being triggered by the oral surgery.

10-4-16
I had a brain mri done at vision upright where you sit upright. During the final 5 minutes I had a sharp head ache that radiated to my arms, difficulty breathing, and both of my hands locked up like crab claws for 30 minutes. They did stoke tests with me, and just attributed it to a panic attack. This would be my second full blown panic attack ever.
Mri results:
Scattered small foci of increased signal seen throughout the periventricular white matter and sub-cortical white matter of right frontal lobe. Most prominent plaque seen within right frontal lobe, measuring 5.0 mm in greatest dimension in the current scan. Most are associated with the periphery of the corpus callosum bilaterally. The ventricles and the basilar cisterns are maintained. Findings are suspected of demyelinating disorder likely multiple sclerosis, correlate clinically.
The midline structures are not deviated. Basal ganglia and thalamus appear normal.
Basal cisterns and sulcal spaces are normal. Ventricular system is normal.
Brainstem and cerebellum are unremarkable. The cerebello-pontine angles are clear. The internal auditory canals are unremarkable.

Neurologist says that the lesion is not in an area where ms is typically, and does not look like ms. I am still experiencing the numbness, aches, pains, spasms, and mental issues that many have with ms. My right eye has recently gotten blurry, and I get random double vision, plus I catch myself starring off as well. I catch my fingers twitching randomly. I still have difficulty writing and brushing my teeth. My wrists still get random pain even after wearing wrist splints at night. I am constantly afraid of collapsing again, especially while driving.
My doctor and neuro both say I have severe health anxiety and need ssri's. I am very hesitant due to side affects and the thought that something else other than stress/anxiety is going on. . I only use the xanax as needed maybe 1-2 per week at only half a .25 mg which helps my symptoms (even the sharp pains which I find crazy.) But they have cut me off and want me to switch to ssris.

I am concerned that my overusage of natural immune boosters + amoxicillion may have triggered ms. Either that or I may have had a series of mini strokes.
Any thoughts or advice would be GREATLY appreciated

[jimmylegs]

hey there, sounds like you've been having a rough go.

questions:
1. can you provide details of your workout regimen
2. is there an associated nutrition plan, if so what are the details
3. do you have an essential nutrient supplement regimen, if so what are the details
4. given your age, weight and activity level, do you know your specific essential nutrient requirements per day, especially for nutrients of concern re ms (eg b12, d3, zinc, magnesium etc)
5. can you share est servings alcohol per week
6. list all meds taken on a regular basis

makes sense that the cal mag supplement helped sort out the twitching. demonstrates that you're a good candidate for more thorough magnesium therapy. the panic and anxiety pretty much seal the deal. before you resort to ssri's, which i think are bs before paying close attention to your body's essential nutrient requirements, at least try a solid high quality magnesium food and supplement regimen for a while. check almost any post i have written in the last who knows how long for details: http://bit.ly/2jS20JF

[MacRemington]

Hey Jimmy, thanks for the reply.

1. At the time I was working out 3 days a week (everyou other day) about 1.5 hours cardiovascular + 30 mins lifting.

2-4 unknown all though I did get tested and had over the normal level of calcium (by .1) then retested back to normal.

5. Alchohol was 3-5 2x per week, sometimes more. But went 3 months cold turkey after seizure.

6. Currently no meds on regular basis.

My biggest problem right now is twitching upper left lip and twitching index finger t thumb on right hand. Accomponied by panic and mental fog.

[jimmylegs]

ok what is your diet like then? if you can share as much detail as poss of food and fluids taken at breakfast lunch dinner snacks, can provide a snapshot of nutrient intakes at least. from recall, two days where you are out of the house / at work and one day where you are at home can be used to approximate a week and you can start lining things up against requirements. fyi the dietary DVs and DRIs for magnesium are low for joe average. just for mag, and never mind all the other essential nutrients. per the literature, you need 7-10 mg per kg body weight per day.

the panic with ongoing muscle twitching reinforces the idea of a low mag issue. adding in history of elevated calcium provides further support, even if only in a relative sense - not good for the cal mag ratio to be out of whack.

regular blood panel won't have a serum magnesium test in it, and the reference range for serum mag is poorly defined anyway, therefore poorly interpreted.

ways to lose mag include physical exertion (sweating) and alcohol consumption. it will be in your best interests to start learning about essential nutrient requirements to maintain body systems. starting with mag, work first to meet daily needs for your weight, and then to compensate for any extra drains on mag status. nutrition is not a status quo thing for docs to go over. probably worth asking for referral to dietitian. in the meantime, you can start reading my last related posts via that bit.ly link, where you'll find plenty of info on mag rich foods, which supplement options are useful and which are not, etc. when i had low mag and started taking it (well more of it) on a pharmacist's advice, issues cleared up on day 2, but without staying on top of it, would come back. it was a long haul to get tissue stores back into line.

[NHE]

4/1/16
Started using Cellular super hd thermogenic (diet pills) helped me drop 15 pounds over 3 months of use while working out. In the past I had EBV antibodies with a higher than normal white blood count. I had used allimed (highly concentrated garlic extract) and colloidal silver to treat and prevent infections.

...............................

Any thoughts or advice would be GREATLY appreciated

I would stop taking and further avoid any weight loss supplements.

You might be interested in watching the following documentary from Frontline on PBS.

Supplements and Safety
http://www.pbs.org/video/2365646371/

[Snoopy]

My doctor and neuro both say I have severe health anxiety and need ssri's. I am very hesitant due to side affects and the thought that something else other than stress/anxiety is going on. . I only use the xanax as needed maybe 1-2 per week at only half a .25 mg which helps my symptoms (even the sharp pains which I find crazy.) But they have cut me off and want me to switch to ssris.

Your Drs. are correct. Your symptoms are helped by Xanax which indicates anxiety and stress as the cause for your symptoms, not Multiple Sclerosis. If you had MS this would not be the case. Please follow your Drs. recommendations of treating your severe health anxiety by using SSRIs. Stress and anxiety/panic attacks can cause physical symptoms and will mimic many different medical issues, treatment for health anxiety will improve symptoms.

[jimmylegs]

magnesium deficiency has been used in mice to trial the efficacy of antidepressant and anti anxiety drugs. to me it's always made way more sense to feed the body essential nutrients, rather than deplete them then pay to medicate the consequences

Magnesium-deficient diet alters depression- and anxiety-related behavior in mice—influence of desipramine and Hypericum perforatum extract
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 0804002588

"...we examined in mice whether Mg-depletion would alter behavior evaluated in established animal models of depression and anxiety and whether these effects would be sensitive to antidepressants.
"...partial Mg-depletion increased anxiety-related behavior in the light/dark and open field test,
"...Mg-depletion leads to enhanced depression- and anxiety-related behavior in mice, which was further validated by the reversibility of the behavioral changes by known antidepressant and anxiolytic substances. Further, the utility of Mg-depletion as a new screening model for clinically active antidepressant and anxiolytic drugs is suggested."

i think a lot of meds represent a failure by health care professionals to actively promote HEALTH. yay for painkillers when undergoing and recovering from surgery. but even there nutrition can play a part - anaesthesia drugs (nitrous oxide) can deplete b12. magnesium can reduce requirements for postop pain killers. and so on

[lyndacarol]

Any thoughts or advice would be GREATLY appreciated

Welcome to ThisIsMS, Mac (MacRemington).

Your symptoms could be the result of nutrient deficiency. For example, brain lesions can be due to magnesium deficiency or vitamin B12 deficiency.

Many prescription drugs, made with a fluoride molecule, can irreversibly bond to magnesium in the body (making magnesium fluoride) and lead to a magnesium deficiency.

Big Pharma Scandal – Dr. Carolyn Dean Discusses the Importance of Magnesium (31 mins.) 10/2014
Dr. Carolyn Dean


@0:36, 80% of the population is missing this mineral (magnesium)

magnesium is the most important mineral in the body; it may not be the mineral that there’s the most of but it is the most important

@20:00 One of the most recent is the past number of years the drug companies have been putting fluoride into drug formulas. And someone said – I’ll have to find the reference for Dr. Mercola – that maybe up to 50% of drugs now have fluoride attached to the formula. So you’ve got drugs like a fluoroquinolone antibiotic – Cipro, everybody knows Cipro – that was supposed to be the anthrax drug and a lot of people took it prophylactically. And that showed a lot of side effects. One major side effect, one endpoint of Cipro toxicity is tendon rupture. But up to that point It’s muscle pain, muscle tightness, muscle spasm. What that means to me is magnesium deficiency. What happens with fluoride when it’s around magnesium? They bind; there’s a molecule form called magnesium fluoride and that effectively eliminates magnesium from the body

I suggest you start by asking your GP for some nutrient testing; I think the first one should be the vitamin D blood test called "25-hydroxy D"; then the 4 tests needed to rule out vitamin B 12 deficiency (serum B12, RBC folate, serum homocysteine, and the methylmalonic acid); magnesium testing and maybe even a serum zinc test (Jimmylegs is our resident nutrient guru with specific suggestions.).

[jimmylegs]

update: went looking very generally for unspecified deficiency issues associated with anxiety.
nutrient-oriented results: d3 and mag in top 5, omega 3 fatty acids in top 10.

the vit d3 result comes up specifically in association with fibro. we already know fibro patients are low in magnesium, and do not synthesize d3 from sunshine as well as controls. from other studies, we know that regardless of fibro dx, serum response to sunshine or oral d3 is positively correlated to mag status. so in that scenario we could call low d3 at least to some extent, a marker of illness.

found another study about treating anxious mag-depleted mice with anti-anxiety drugs (had not seen this one before i don't think - testing desipramine on mousie anxiety via mag depletion this time):

Magnesium deficiency induces anxiety and HPA axis dysregulation: Modulation by therapeutic drug treatment
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 0811003054

"It is further suggested that dysregulations in the HPA axis may contribute to the hyper-emotionality in response to dietary induced hypomagnesaemia."

ringing any 'emotional lability' bells for anyone?

my point as usual being to optimize nutrient status first, then see what symptoms are left.

[jimmylegs]

bump

ok what is your diet like then? if you can share as much detail as poss of food and fluids taken at breakfast lunch dinner snacks, can provide a snapshot of nutrient intakes at least. from recall, two days where you are out of the house / at work and one day where you are at home can be used to approximate a week and you can start lining things up against requirements.

any progress establishing mag intake from diet? had a chance to do any related reading?

[MacRemington]

Very interesting responses here. Thanks everyone. My current issue is index finger semi paralisys and both index fingers were twitching like crazy all night in my sleep. Currently if I shake someones hand my right index finger will lock up. I have an eeg scheduled and plan on requesting an emg.

The facial mykomianwas exactly as seen here (lasted for 6 weeks non stop even while sleeping)

http://www.kaltura.com/index.php/extwid ... mbed/auto?

So here are my "normal" test results: Calcium was high at first then came back normal

Calcium, Ser/Plas 10.1 mg/dL 8.7 - 10.2 mg/dL
PTH, Intact 21 pg/mL 15 - 65 pg/mL
25-Hydroxy D, Total 32.1 ng/mL 30.0 - 100.0 ng/mL
Magnesium, Ser/Plas 2.2 mg/dL 1.6 - 2.3 mg/dL
Lyme IgG/IgM Ab <0.91 ISR 0.00 - 0.90 ISR
Hb A1c Diabetic Assessment 5.5 % 4.8 - 5.6 %
Vitamin B12 329 pg/mL 211 - 946 pg/mL
Glucose, Ser/Plas 98 mg/dL 65 - 99 mg/dL
BUN 7 mg/dL 6 - 20 mg/dL
Creatinine, Ser/Plas 0.83 mg/dL 0.76 - 1.27 mg/dL
eGFR 117 mL/min/1.73 >59 mL/min/1.73
eGFR (African American) 136 mL/min/1.73 >59 mL/min/1.73
Bun/Creatinine Ratio 8 8 - 19
Sodium, Ser/Plas 142 mmol/L 136 - 144 mmol/L
**Effective December 12, 2016 the reference interval**
for Sodium, Serum will be changing to:
134 - 144
Potassium, Ser/Plas 4.4 mmol/L 3.5 - 5.2 mmol/L
Chloride, Ser/Plas 101 mmol/L 97 - 106 mmol/L
**Effective December 12, 2016 the reference interval**
for Chloride, Serum will be changing to:
96 - 106
CO2, Ser/Plas 29 mmol/L 18 - 29 mmol/L
Calcium, Ser/Plas 10.4 mg/dL 8.7 - 10.2 mg/dL

[MacRemington]

bump

ok what is your diet like then? if you can share as much detail as poss of food and fluids taken at breakfast lunch dinner snacks, can provide a snapshot of nutrient intakes at least. from recall, two days where you are out of the house / at work and one day where you are at home can be used to approximate a week and you can start lining things up against requirements.

any progress establishing mag intake from diet? had a chance to do any related reading?

I eat a pretty healthy diet, heres the last few days:
3-7-17
breakfast
orange juice
sourdough toast with homemade peach preserves
blue berries

lunch
turkey sandwich on sourdough toast with jack cheese
apple

dinner
swordfish and salad w/ 2 light beers

3-6-17
breakfast
apple juice
oatmeal with raisins

lunch
aloe juice
bag of sun chips
celery with hummus

dinner
baked salmon
salad
miso soup
california sushi roll

[jimmylegs]

ah good info.

your calcium is still on the high side of normal and although your serum mag LOOKS like it is upper normal range, it doesn't necessarily mean much. overall looks like you may be dealing with a high cal:mag ratio, which should be a pretty easy fix.

re serum mag. at my lab, normal range is 1.7 - 2.7. so while you're looking upper normal range at your lab, your level looks much more middle of the road had you been tested at mine. it's often just how the diff labs program their gear.

serum mag reference ranges are under scrutiny lately. i'll have to go digging for this one study i found recently which says that as you go up by steps within the normal range for serum mag, a smaller and smaller percentage of people are likely to have symptoms associated with mag deficit. this is by way of saying all kinds of ppl with 'normal' mag have mag deficit symptoms. researchers have been calling for an update to the serum reference ranges. related reading: http://advances.nutrition.org/content/7/6/977.full.pdf

you'd be fine aiming for serum mag levels closer to the top end of normal at my lab or ones like it, ie 2.7 mg/dl

if you achieved that, you'd most likely see your serum calcium level come down a bit, and d3 come up.

re d3, you're looking for at least 40ng/ml serum d3. best to optimize serum magnesium, then see where your d3 levels are at, and THEN decide if you still need a d3 supplement.

your b12 numbers are great. on the high side if anything.

re food. let's go through your day 1 list and see if we can suss out your approx magnesium intake.

mgs are from usda/google, with some guesswork on my part. eg i have no idea if you consumed exactly 1c of orange juice etc.

1c orange juice = 27mg
1 med slice sourdough bread = 20mg
peaches and blueberries maybe 10mg combined

85g turkey = 27mg
2 med slice sourdough = 40mg
1 oz jack cheese = 8mg
apple = 9mg

3 oz swordfish = 30mg
100g leaf lettuce = 13mg

so 57 + 84 + 43 = 184 mg of magnesium for day 1.

that is 44% of what RDIs suggest you should be getting (420mg per day)
this is a perfect example of the disconnect between public health essential nutrient recommendations, and clinical tests which use crap reference ranges so that you can be consuming less than half what you nominally should, but still have 'normal' results at the lab.

in the literature, the recommended magnesium intake range is 7-10 mg per kg body weight per day. so you can do your math there and decide if the RDIs are out to lunch in your case.

if we just take a random person who weighs 80kg that means if they are symptomatic of low mag and thinking 10mg/kg/day would be a decent therapeutic approach, then they need 800mg of magnesium per day.

so if this random hypothetical person eats the same kinds of food you do, how to hit 800 when baseline intake is under 200. best sources are healthy whole foods.
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... #foodchart
examples presented with approx mag content per serving, in increasing order by calorie content (the details are all there via the link above)
1c boiled/drained spinach or swiss chard ~150mg
1/4 c pumpkin seeds 190mg
1c black beans (soup??) 120mg
1/4 c cashews 116mg

if supplements are needed to top up, that's a different conversation. not all are created equal and some are just downright unpleasant.. esp if someone decided to go for 800mg per day all from mag oxide *shudder*

any questions, just say

ps i enjoy your early adoption of sarcastic 'normal' quotes ;)

[MacRemington]

Thanks Jimmy legs for such detailed info, so to confirm you are recommending much more calcium? If so what supplement would you reccomend?

[jimmylegs]

no no no. re read pls