New symptom out of the blue

This is the place to ask questions if you have symptoms that suggest MS, but aren't yet diagnosed.

Re: New symptom out of the blue

Postby LisaH » Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:32 am

I understand, jimmylegs. I'll discuss this with my neurologist soon. I'm not sure if any of my other results might reveal anything to someone here, so here they are with reference ranges:

Sodium: 139 mmol/L ( 136 mmol/L - 145 mmol/L )
Potassium: 4.2 mmol/L ( 3.5 mmol/L - 5.1 mmol/L )
Chloride: 102 mmol/L ( 98 mmol/L - 108 mmol/L )
CO2, Total: 26 mmol/L (21 mmol/L - 32 mmol/L )
Anion Gap: 11.0 mmol/L ( 5.0 mmol/L - 15.0 mmol/L )
Thyroxine (T4): 8.70 mcg/dL ( 4.80 mcg/dL - 11.70 mcg/dL )
TSH: 1.017 mcIunits/mL ( 0.400 mcIunits/mL - 5.400 mcIunits/mL )
WBC Count: 7.7 x10^3/mcL ( 3.2 x10^3/mcL - 11.8 x10^3/mcL )
RBC: 4.81 x10^6/mcL ( 3.70 x10^6/mcL - 5.56 x10^6/mcL )
Hemoglobin: 15.6 g/dL ( 1.5 g/dL - 16.5 g/dL )
Hematocrit: 44.8 % ( 36.6 % - 50.2 % )
Platelet Count: 235 x10^3/mcL ( 132 x10^3/mcL - 400 x10^3/mcL )
Nucleated RBC: 0 /100WBC ( 0 /100WBC )
Neutrophils Absolute #: 5.7 x10^3/mcL ( 1.3 x10^3/mcL - 8.1 x10^3/mcL )
Segmented Neutrophils %: 73.4 % ( 35.0 % - 75.0 % )
Immature Granulocyte%: 0.400 % ( 0.000 % - 0.631 % )
Lymphocytes %: 16.5 % ( 19.0 % - 48.0 % )
Monocytes %: 7.1 % ( 3.5 % - 13.0 % )
Eosinophils %: 2.1 % ( 0.0 % - 6.2 % )
Basophils %: 0.5 % ( 0.0 % - 2.0 % )
MCV: 93.1 fL ( 80.5 fL - 101.0 fL )
MCH: 32.4 pcg ( 26.9 pcg - 33.9 pcg )
MCHC: 34.8 % ( 31.0 % - 37.0 % )
RDW: 12.6 % ( 10.5 % - 15.5 % )
RDW-SD: 43.4 fL (36.4 fL - 52.4 fL )
MPV: 10.2 fL ( 9.4 fL - 12.4 fL)
Sedimentation Rate (Westergren): 18 mm/hr ( 0 mm/hr - 20 mm/hr )
ANA: negative
LisaH
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Re: New symptom out of the blue

Postby jimmylegs » Sun Jun 04, 2017 11:22 am

hemoglobin looks good. suggests decent serum ferritin status. target is at least 13 for pwms. that is per a crusty old protocol (klenner) for ms and myasthenia gravis. my modified version did me LOADS of good. restored tons of functionality.

sed rate also looks fine but that range looks pretty odd considering https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erythrocy ... ate#Adults
i've spent very little time on ESR so not much else to offer in the way of insight

would be great to see serum magnesium, zinc, copper, selenium, retinol, more of the B vits (esp b1), and uric acid. i'd consider the first three higher priority. magnesium is number 1 here bc you'll presumably be working on vit d3. as with other tests, if consistent with an ms patient you could expect the result to be lower in the normal range than levels seen in healthy controls.

re overnight fasting prior to any such test(s), note the value of a consistent data collection routine:

Circadian variations in serum zinc (Zn) concentrations: correlation with blood ionized calcium, serum total calcium and phosphate in humans.
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/41/4/689.short
"A "U" shaped curve was derived; we found peak Zn levels at 9:30 AM, a midtrough at 8 PM and a peak-trough difference of 19 micrograms/dl."
(note that is data from just 6 males though).
odd sx? no dx? check w/ dietitian
DRI=MINIMUM eg bit.ly/1vgQclQ
99% don't meet these. meds/lifestyle can affect levels
status can be low in ms & other cond'ns
'but my results are normal'. typical panels don't test all
deficits occur in 'normal' range
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Re: New symptom out of the blue

Postby LisaH » Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:43 am

I was told at my visit with the neuro-ophthamologist that my right optic nerve shows some thinning (OCT test) and that one of my optic discs is smaller than the other. My visual field test still shows problems, but they're nonspecific, so this doctor (like the others) wants to wait to see what my follow-up MRI shows. I'm still having the strange jerking movements in my arms off-and-on which only happens when I'm sitting or lying down (relaxing). It doesn't hurt at all but I'm concerned about what could be causing it. My blood work didn't provide an answer for it so I'm hoping the MRI will. I don't want to have something serious wrong with me, but my symptoms have to be coming from something, right? Not knowing is very frustrating.
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Re: New symptom out of the blue

Postby jimmylegs » Sun Jun 18, 2017 1:32 pm

unfortunately bloodwork completed to date is not the sort that will pick up all of the key nutrients either for ms patients, or for those hoping to distance themselves from a typical ms patient's bloodwork profile.

the origins of my username here stem from the one-time issue i had with odd painless jerking movements. at one time i thought it was ferritin related 'restless legs syndrome' but later settled on zinc. this link leads to anecdotal evidence only, but it's another's story of noticing real improvements via zinc supplementation:
https://hubpages.com/health/myoclonus
"Zinc Status
This is the product that seems to help me a lot. ... To my surprise it seemed to have an effect on my weird jerking movements. If I stop taking it the uncontrollable movements seem to increase and if I take it they seem to decrease. I could not say whether it will help anyone else. I cannot even guarantee that it is helping me...and can only say that I do really think it seems to be helping me."
as stated above, "would be great to see serum magnesium, zinc, copper..."
hopefully you get a chance to investigate.
failing bloodwork, try therazinc lozenges, use according to package directions, and let us know what you think of them. alternatively can try a pill form with no other changes to routine and see if a difference is felt.
http://therazinc.com
this would be a short term approach only. if serum ferritin is low (which does not *appear* to be the case given that hemoglobin level), it's not a good idea to rely on zinc intake from supplements.
odd sx? no dx? check w/ dietitian
DRI=MINIMUM eg bit.ly/1vgQclQ
99% don't meet these. meds/lifestyle can affect levels
status can be low in ms & other cond'ns
'but my results are normal'. typical panels don't test all
deficits occur in 'normal' range
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jimmylegs
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Re: New symptom out of the blue

Postby LisaH » Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:13 pm

Thanks for the information, jimmylegs. I've actually had restless leg syndrome for years that kept me from sleeping and it's truly awful. If someone had offered me a million dollars not to move my legs, I couldn't have done it. Gabapentin has stopped it completely, which was unexpected. As for the involuntary jerks, it happens on some days but not others. I have the fluttery muscle twitches in my arms, legs, and face every day. They aren't painful, either, but it's very strange. I've also had a few instances of suddenly letting go of what I'm holding. Day before yesterday, my son and I were having lunch. I went to put my drink back down on the table and my hand just let go and it dropped with a loud thud, making quite a mess. I wasn't distracted or anything, so what would cause that to happen? I had a similar incident on the porch one morning. I took a drink of my coffee and was about to put it back on the table when my wrist just suddenly turned and poured most of it out. This never happened in the past, so it seems that these things are all related somehow. :confused:
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Re: New symptom out of the blue

Postby jimmylegs » Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:48 am

it took me a while to figure out what i had was not restless legs. glad you have some relief from gabapentin.
your involuntary movements do sound like what i was able to correct with nutrition. it just wasn't an iron issue. worst case scenario when investigating nutrition, you end up being able to confidently rule it out as having anything to do with your experience. (that said, treating nutrient status *without* assessment and monitoring can be quite the can of worms).

hopefully the tests listed above are in your future. you can expect them to come back low normal. sometimes there are surprises, like in zyklon's case the very high serum ferritin (first time i had heard of a level above 1000 let alone 2000, levels that earned him the nickname 'iron man' at the lab). but tweaking levels within the normal range, adjusting ratios between different essential nutrients, all quite doable in most cases. exceptions i've encountered can include certain conditions where the person's body doesn't treat or handle inputs in the same way as others, due to some genetic situation.
odd sx? no dx? check w/ dietitian
DRI=MINIMUM eg bit.ly/1vgQclQ
99% don't meet these. meds/lifestyle can affect levels
status can be low in ms & other cond'ns
'but my results are normal'. typical panels don't test all
deficits occur in 'normal' range
User avatar
jimmylegs
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Posts: 10501
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:00 pm

Re: New symptom out of the blue

Postby LisaH » Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:08 pm

I emailed my OCT to my regular eye doctor today without telling him what the neuro-ophthalmologist told me. My regular eye doctor says the numbers indicate that I have mild thinning of the retinal nerve fiber layer in both eyes. The neuro-ophthalmologist thinks that my left eye is still within normal limits. From what I've been reading online, the numbers do indicate RNFL thinning in both eyes. The neuro-ophthalmologist basically disregarded my VEP results that I brought with me (at the request of my eye doctor). He said he doesn't really like VEP tests and prefers OCTs instead. The latency was increased somewhat in both of my eyes (mostly the right) in my second VEP even though no P100 could be identified. My regular eye doctor even noted there was degradation since my first VEP just 2 months prior. It surprised me that the neuro-ophthalmologist just dismissed my VEPs completely. Has anyone else here had a doctor dismiss their VEP results? :sad: I'm anxious to have my follow-up MRI this week to find out if there are any changes. From what I've been told (and reading online, of course), a special type of orbit MRI is needed to get a really good look at the optic nerves. As far as I know, my MRI will be just like the one I had in November. Has anyone reading this had optic nerve problems that were found on an standard (with and without contrast) MRI?
LisaH
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Joined: Tue May 09, 2017 4:05 pm

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