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Re: all things vitamin D

PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:32 am
by jimmylegs
oh look they're getting there, slowly but surely. i used to have this diminished serologic response to d3. **past tense**

Multiple sclerosis patients have a diminished serologic response to vitamin D supplementation compared to healthy controls
"For this study 27 MS patients and 30 HCs were enrolled. There was no significant difference in baseline 25(OH)D level or demographics except for higher body mass index (BMI) in the MS group (25.3 vs. 23.6 kg/m2, p=0.035). In total, 24 MS subjects and 29 HCs completed the study. In a multivariate model accounting for BMI, medication adherence, and oral contraceptive use, MS patients had a 16.7 nmol/l (95%CI: 4.2, 29.2, p=0.008) lower increase in 25(OH)D levels compared with HCs.
Conclusions: Patients with MS had a lower increase in 25(OH)D levels with supplementation, even after accounting for putative confounders."

Re: all things vitamin D

PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 11:28 am
by jimmylegs
related to last post above:

Magnesium deficit - overlooked cause of low vitamin D status? ... 015-11-229
"Like vitamin D deficit, magnesium deficit is considered to be a risk factor for cardiovascular disease. Several steps in the vitamin D metabolism, such as vitamin D binding to its transport protein and the conversion of vitamin D into the hormonal form 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D by hepatic and renal hydroxylation, depend on magnesium as a cofactor. A new analysis of two National Health and Nutrition Examination Surveys data sets, published in BMC Medicine, investigated potential interactions between magnesium intake, circulating 25-hydroxyvitamin D, which is the generally accepted indicator of vitamin D status, and mortality. Data indicate a reduced risk of insufficient/deficient vitamin D status at high magnesium intake and an inverse association between circulating 25-hydroxyvitamin D and mortality, particularly cardiovascular mortality, among those with magnesium intake above the median. The study provides important findings concerning potential metabolic interactions between magnesium and vitamin D and its clinical relevance. However, results should be considered preliminary since biochemical data on individual magnesium status were lacking, confounding cannot be excluded and questions on the dose?response relationship still remain to be answered."

taking d3 may facilitate toxin uptake

PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 11:58 am
by jimmylegs
Vitamin D, Essential Minerals, and Toxic Elements: Exploring Interactions between Nutrients and Toxicants in Clinical Medicine
"In clinical medicine, increasing attention is being directed towards the important areas of nutritional biochemistry and toxicant bioaccumulation as they relate to human health and chronic disease. Optimal nutritional status, including healthy levels of vitamin D and essential minerals, is requisite for proper physiological function; conversely, accrual of toxic elements has the potential to impair normal physiology. It is evident that vitamin D intake can facilitate the absorption and assimilation of essential inorganic elements (such as calcium, magnesium, copper, zinc, iron, and selenium) but also the uptake of toxic elements (such as lead, arsenic, aluminum, cobalt, and strontium). Furthermore, sufficiency of essential minerals appears to resist the uptake of toxic metals. This paper explores the literature to determine a suitable clinical approach with regard to vitamin D and essential mineral intake to achieve optimal biological function and to avoid harm in order to prevent and overcome illness. It appears preferable to secure essential mineral status in conjunction with adequate vitamin D, as intake of vitamin D in the absence of mineral sufficiency may result in facilitation of toxic element absorption with potential adverse clinical outcomes."

Re: all things vitamin D

PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 5:12 pm
by jimmylegs
k so have been enjoying some fun times with vertigo the last week or so. decided to check in on the literature to see whether any nutritional links would make sense. science suggested d3 and this study found serum levels in the 50-60 nmol/L ballpark (ie 23 ng/ml) associated with benign paroxysmal positional vertigo (which is what i have going on).
i had started taking fish oil for the vit d3 in the last little while because i have been inside SO MUCH more than normal this year. but looks like it's time to take things more firmly in hand. will still be stuck inside thesis-ing, but luckily have my handy dandy hi-test 1,000,000 IU/gm d3 drops in the house. should be able to make short work of this issue hopefully. in light of the above, will make certain my multivit/multimineral PLUS mag PLUS zinc also go in. no inadvertent toxin uptake thanks very much :P hopefully in a few days will be able to report improvements in the vertigo department. if not, will have to dig deeper. fingers crossed however, since d3 came up first in the lit review, and my levels are so likely to be terrible right now. occam's razor and all that. we shall see!

Re: all things vitamin D

PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 5:42 pm
by ElliotB
Have you tried the Epley Maneuver?

Re: all things vitamin D

PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 5:52 pm
by jimmylegs
nope, treating it as a nutritional red flag first. if d3 doesn't work i'll give it a go :)

i just asked google to summarize in non-academic fashion, any epley/d3/vertigo debate via a quick search on terms:
epley maneuver or vit d3 for vertigo


Re: all things vitamin D

PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 4:00 pm
by jimmylegs
didn't end up high dosing today. just 800 iu vit D3 in cod liver oil, plus whatever's in my multi, plus a bunch of other minerals including 360mg elemental magnesium. seems to be an improvement vertigo-wise so far, but will still high dose tomorrow morning (before i head out for some relatively physical volunteer work which would not mix so well with vertigo)

cool study :D Re: all things vitamin D

PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 12:48 pm
by jimmylegs
love that people are just stating it right up front finally

not an ms study obvi, but the mag d3 link is relevant

Serum Magnesium and Vitamin D Levels as Indicators of Asthma Severity
full text d/l link ... 643717.pdf
"Background. Serum magnesium levels affect the concentration of circulating vitamin D in blood and subsequently it affects the immunity; thus it plays significant role in the pathogenesis of asthma. Asthma, in adults, is less studied and hypomagnesemia along with vitamin D deficiency and insufficiency is common in asthmatic individuals, which causes frequent asthma attacks, respiratory infections, severe exacerbations, and poor response to bronchodilators. Objective. To detect the magnitude of vitamin D insufficiency and deficiency and serum magnesium levels among asthmatic patients and to correlate them with the severity of asthma. Materials and Methods. This is a cross-sectional case-control study which includes 60 patients of chronic stable asthma and 60 healthy controls. After taking clinical history and systemic examination, pulmonary function test was done. Serum levels of magnesium, 25-hydroxycholecalciferol [25(OH)D], and calcium were measured in all the subjects. Results. Significant correlation was found between vitamin D deficiency, hypomagnesemia, and asthma severity. Serum calcium levels were unaffected by that. Conclusion. Vitamin D and serum magnesium deficiency are highly prevalent in patients with asthma. Increased asthma severity, frequency of attacks, and exacerbation are associated with lower levels of one or both. Serum 25(OH)D and magnesium levels may serve as important markers of asthma severity."

Re: all things vitamin D

PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:51 am
by jimmylegs
thought this looked like an interesting title:
Controlled trials of vitamin D, causality and type 2 statistical error
"Two recent studies published in The Lancet (Autier et al. (2013) Lancet Diabetes Endocrinol2, 76–89 and Bolland et al. (2014) Lancet Diabetes Endocrinol2, 307–320) have concluded that low levels of vitamin D are not a cause but a consequence of ill health brought about by reduced exposure to the sun, an association known as ‘reverse causality’. The scientific evidence and reasoning for these conclusions are examined here and found to be faulty. A null result in a clinical trial of vitamin D in adults need not lead to a conclusion of reverse causation when low vitamin D is found in observational studies of the same disease earlier in life. To assume an explanation of reverse causality has close similarities with type 2 statistical error..."
they're basically saying, these things aren't all necessarily going to be reversible, so don't go around saying they aren't causal. this is fairly common sense in my view. i have permanent spinal cord damage from b12 deficiency, i just have to deal. and more hyperbolically, if you die from scurvy, no amount of vit c is going to sort that out.

had to go have a closer look at at least one of the guilty authors' works
Vitamin D status and ill health: a systematic review ... 8713701657
"Results from intervention studies did not show an effect of vitamin D supplementation on disease occurrence, including colorectal cancer. In 34 intervention studies including 2805 individuals with mean 25(OH)D concentration lower than 50 nmol/L at baseline supplementation with 50 μg per day or more did not show better results. Supplementation in elderly people (mainly women) with 20 μg vitamin D per day seemed to slightly reduce all-cause mortality. The discrepancy between observational and intervention studies suggests that low 25(OH)D is a marker of ill health. Inflammatory processes involved in disease occurrence and clinical course would reduce 25(OH)D, which would explain why low vitamin D status is reported in a wide range of disorders. In elderly people, restoration of vitamin D deficits due to ageing and lifestyle changes induced by ill health could explain why low-dose supplementation leads to slight gains in survival."

although i'm not at all on board with the idea that inflammatory processes are the cause of low d3, i actually quite agree that low d3 status can be at least in part a marker of ill health. particularly where the illnesses in question have any links to established vit d3 cofactors. i enjoy these related items from discussion in 2014:

"Magnesium, vitamin D status and mortality: results from US National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey (NHANES) 2001 to 2006 and NHANES III
"High intake of total, dietary or supplemental magnesium was independently associated with significantly reduced risks of vitamin D deficiency and insufficiency respectively. Intake of magnesium significantly interacted with intake of vitamin D in relation to risk of both vitamin D deficiency and insufficiency. Additionally, the inverse association between total magnesium intake and vitamin D insufficiency primarily appeared among populations at high risk of vitamin D insufficiency. Furthermore, the associations of serum 25(OH)D with mortality, particularly due to cardiovascular disease (CVD) and colorectal cancer, were modified by magnesium intake, and the inverse associations were primarily present among those with magnesium intake above the median."
Interactions between magnesium and vitamin D: possible implications in the immune system.
"Evidence clearly shows that magnesium and vitamin D [1 alpha, 25-dihydroxyvitamin D3; 1,25(OH)2D3] independently affect numerous aspects of the immune system. ... this paper identifies numerous places in common where both magnesium and vitamin D reportedly affect immune function. ... there are compelling reasons to believe that examining interactions between magnesium and vitamin D within the immune system could prove rewarding, especially since the physiological statuses of both nutrients in human populations are less than optimum."