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NZer1 wrote:....the thing I read in these research results is that Vit D is in the picture, simplistic view but I believe it is reality. Until there is understanding of the Vit D involvement supplementing is of little use......

Great Nigel we agree that Vit D3 is in the picture.
Please do an economic calculation of ensuring that everyone in NZ who suffers inflamation of the optic nerve (Optic Neuritis) is tested for their blood D3 levels and it is supplemented to a minimum of 125mmol/Lif required.
Start by finding the number of pwMS in NZ and the number diagnosed each year.
Find the lifetime cost of MS in NZ. (In UK it is stated to be one million GB pounds per person diagnosed); Then check the reduction in the development of MS if Optic Neuritis is treated (the study from Iran posted in this thread by NZer1/you); http://link.springer.com/article/10.100 ... 6-2#page-1; Find out how many young people in NZ get Optic Neuritis; Give a low estimate of possible reduction in development of MS in people who are diagnosed with Optic Neuritis (I suggest 50% reduction). Estimate how much it costs to check and maintain D3 levels above 125mmol/L; Arrive at an economic evaluation = Spend XXX NZD on giving D3 to XX people with Optic Neuritis and save XXXXX NZD in people who are prevented from developing MS.

Prof George Ebers told the BBC Scotland that the whole Scottish population should get D3 supplements to reduce MS (I posted the link in thread). NZ people are genetically similar to Scots and receive a bit more sun. My logic is similar but I try to be more focussed in the people I select for checking D3 in blood. I recommend that everyone who experiences a first episode of possible MS is also checked for D3 in blood and it is increased to a minimum of 125mmol/L. Also if you have MS in your family, get checked well before you start reproducing.

The Pharma Industry does not wait for a full understanding the exact mode of action of a new drug before selling it, just shows it is safe and probably works. Yet for the very cheap and safe vitamin D3 our neuros and politicians say we need more data. I do not understand their logic.

Good luck with your appraisal for NZ, accuaracy is less important a reasonable approximation.
MarkW

also:

Nutritional effects of zinc on ocular and systemic physiology.
http://europepmc.org/abstract/MED/64547 ... IveTPofx.2
... High concentrations of zinc are found in human ocular tissues and are closely related to visual function. When zinc levels are inappropriately low, results can include ocular birth defects, reduced ability to dark adapt, excessively low IOP, and optic neuritis.

Morning Team.
I have a population of 52 PwMS in my district and I have done some data capture on the group.
optic neuritis is not a symptom of any of our group and from the data the vision issues are nystagmus or cranial nerve issues.
Having Vit D tests is a challenge because of our health system and if not subsidised is prohibitive for individuals.
I am looking at ways to get data and find ways to fund the search. ;)

Nigel

From Taking Control of Multiple Sclerosis
(George Jelinek's Site)
https://www.facebook.com/MultipleSclero ... ref=stream

Interesting presentation on the Vitamin D link with MS, and how the theory was ridiculed for many years before becoming widely accepted.

Liver a part of the Vit D process?

SIMPLE HEALING RECIPES FOR CLEANSING YOUR LIVER AND BLOOD
http://myscienceacademy.org/2013/01/18/ ... and-blood/
PF Louis,

(NaturalNews) After the heart and lungs, the liver is perhaps your most vital organ. When it shuts down, you die. Extreme liver conditions may result in the eventual need for dangerous liver transplants.

A sluggish liver can manifest a malaise of symptoms that lead to misdiagnoses for other chronic autoimmune diseases. This sluggishness can be prevented and also corrected through rejuvenating and cleansing your liver frequently.

The liver is responsible for purifying your blood and is involved with producing glutathione to recycle spent antioxidants. It helps convert sunlight to vitamin D3, and it’s involved with the manufacture of bile needed for removing nutrients from food particles in the small intestine.

Successful cancer treatments such as the Gerson Therapy and Dr. Donald Kelley’s pancreatic enzyme protocol, perfected and continued today by Dr. Nicholas Gonzalez, utilize coffee enemas to eliminate toxins from the liver.

This procedure was specifically inserted into those cancer treatments to eliminate dead cancer cells and toxic die off, but it’s also useful for eliminating accrued toxins from years of living in our toxic environment and/or consuming toxic foods and beverages.

Another interesting study
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23339019
Abstract
Multiple sclerosis is a neurological disorder that presents with symptoms including inflammation, neurodegeneration, and demyelination of the central nervous system (CNS). Secondary progressive multiple sclerosis (SPMS) manifests with serious physical disability. To quantitatively analyze differential protein expression in patients with SPMS, we performed two-dimensional fluorescence difference in-gel electrophoresis, followed by mass spectrometry on the cerebrospinal fluid of these patients and patients with other neurological diseases. Vitamin D-binding protein (DBP), gelsolin, albumin, etc. showed more than a 1.5-fold difference between the two groups. Based on these results, an experimental allergic encephalomyelitis (EAE) model of multiple sclerosis in Lewis rats was used to investigate DBP's role in the disease. Protein levels, mRNA transcripts, and ligands of DBP in different regions of the CNS were evaluated under various vitamin D intake levels. Here, DBP levels increased in the experimental rat groups compared to the control groups regardless of vitamin D intake. Moreover, DBP mRNA levels varied in different parts of the CNS including spinal cords in the experimental groups. The observed differences between DBP protein and mRNA levels in the experimental groups' spinal cords could be derived from the disruption of the blood-brain barrier. Furthermore, an interaction between DBP and actin was confirmed using coimmunoprecipitation and western blot. These results indicate a role for DBP in the actin scavenge system. Moreover, in the experimental group that received oral vitamin D3 supplement, we observed both delayed onset and diminished severity of the disease. When DBP was upregulated, however, the benefits from the vitamin D3 supplements were lost. Thus, we inferred that high levels of DBP were adverse to recovery. In conclusion, here we observed upregulated DBP in the cerebrospinal fluid could serve as a specific diagnostic biomarker for the progression of multiple sclerosis. Next, we demonstrate the vital function of increased levels of free vitamin D metabolites for multiple sclerosis treatment. Finally, vitamin D supplements may be particularly beneficial for SPMS patients.

yes liver is part of the process. sun + 7-dehydrocholesterol = cholecalciferol. next, hydroxylation of cholecalciferol in the liver = 25(OH)D3. next, hydroxylation of 25(OH)D3 in the kidney = 1,25(OH)2D3. you need zinc (among other things) for proper liver function. liver has high cell turnover so great capacity for repair. zinc reverses cirrhosis.

older chat re the ms liver
http://www.thisisms.com/forum/general-d ... c6906.html

Thanks Jimmylegs,
I am trying to catch up on so much info. I haven't looked at other threads on things like ABx before and I am amazed how much knowledge has been around for years and yet it hasn't been put in one place to direct understanding of MS etc.
CCSVI Alliance appears to be doing that, thanks to their vision we will see all sorts of data inter-connect new insights.

Regards,
Nigel

Quote from http://fibrotv.com/2012/09/the-magnesiu ... -not-know/
Magnesium is the key factor in converting vitamin D-3 into 1,25D? the only form of vitamin D the body can use. Magnesium from supplements does not work well because the body has a difficult time metabolizing minerals that are not combined with food. Because of this, magnesium rich vegetables are the simplest, easiest, and most efficient way for the body to build up a sufficient store of magnesium to meet the body’s various every day needs. Having a deficiency of magnesium is not only harmful to the body, it is wasteful; your body will not be able to convert all of the vitamin D-3 you are getting, from supplements or sun, into its useable form.


The Best Ways To Get Vitamin D

Sunlight

Sunlight spurs the body to make vitamin D. Part of the reason we are Vitamin D deficient is we spend less time outdoors than we once did. When we do go outside we are in fear of the sun because it has been drilled into our heads that it causes skin cancer so we slap on sunblock. Sunblock BLOCKS the absorption of Vitamin D. Instead of slapping on the sunblock right away go out and get 20-30 minutes of sun during the early morning hours when the suns rays are less intense and less likely to burn your skin. Make sure you are not all covered up with clothes as well. You want the sun to hit as much of the body as possible!


Fatty Fish


Fatty fish can be a good source of vitamin D. Common options include salmon, trout, mackerel, tuna and eel. Make sure to get wild caught fish and not farm raised. Farm raised fish have high levels of mercury which is a toxin to the body.


Certain Mushrooms


Just like humans, mushrooms have the capacity to produce vitamin D when exposed to ultraviolet light.
Mushrooms, however, are usually grown in the dark and don’t contain the vitamin. Specific brands, however, are grown in ultraviolet light to spur vitamin D production.


Supplements


Vitamin D supplements can help you get your proper daily dose. Vitamin D supplements come in two forms: vitamin D2 and vitamin D3, which are generally listed on the ingredient list of the supplement label. The natural form the body uses is vitamin D3, which is produced in the skin from a form of cholesterol combined with sun exposure. Historically, the type of vitamin D used for supplements has been vitamin D2, which is prepared from yeast. However, many supplement manufacturers have started reformulating their products with vitamin D3 as well. According to the National Institutes of Health, most experts recommend vitamin D3 to meet vitamin D needs. When shopping for vitamin D supplements, look for vitamin D3 on the label.


Egg Yolks


Eggs are a convenient way to get vitamin D. Since the vitamin D in an egg comes from its yolk, it’s important to use the whole egg — not just the whites. One yolk will give you about 40 IUs.


Beef Liver


A 3.5-ounce serving of cooked beef liver contains about 50 IUs of vitamin D — and several other nutrients. You’ll also be getting vitamin A, iron and protein.


Cod Liver Oil


One tablespoon contains about 1,300 IUs of vitamin D, which is more than twice the recommended dietary allowance of 600 IUs per day.
I would stay away from anything that is “fortified” with Vitamin D. My definition of fortified is a food that has no nutrition value what so ever so we are injecting nutrition into it so it seems healthy and you will buy it.


Written by Jen Reynolds
Creator and Founder of FibroTV.com

yeah if you stay in one forum you don't get all the info here for sure. i think it's blinkers and probably overload too.

i went looking for factors in the 1,25dihydroxycholecalciferol pathway to try to verify that mag was the most important. found this so far

Metabolism of 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3 (1984)
http://physrev.physiology.org/content/64/2/478.short
Synthesis of 1,25(OH)2D3 is controlled by numerous factors. The major ones, however, are the circulating amounts of parathyroid hormone (the secretion of which is stimulated by low serum calcium), serum or extracellular fluid phosphorus concentrations, circulating levels of 1,25(OH)2D3 itself, and perhaps serum calcium directly. Many of the other factors noted have effects in vitro only or effects that are observed inconsistently or in one species only.

Vitamin D insufficiency and the blunted PTH response in established osteoporosis: the role of magnesium deficiency
http://link.springer.com/article/10.100 ... -3?LI=true
Vitamin D insufficiency is common, however within individuals, not all manifest the biochemical effects of PTH excess. This further extends to patients with established osteoporosis. The mechanism underlying the blunted PTH response is unclear but may be related to magnesium (Mg) deficiency... This study confirms that in patients with established osteoporosis, there is also a distinct group with a low vitamin D and a blunted PTH level and that Mg deficiency (as measured by the Mg loading test) is an important contributing factor.

as for absorption, and so on.. here is some more info on magnesium

natural approach- all things magnesium
http://www.thisisms.com/forum/natural-a ... 18568.html

plus my general bit of dietary and supplement info from the regimens area
http://www.thisisms.com/forum/regimens- ... c2489.html

and from one of my fave resources in general, but specific to magnesium
http://whfoods.org/genpage.php?tname=nutrient&dbid=75

My other Bloods results came back with Vit B1 still to come;
Vit E 33umol/L (23-70 umol/L)
Fatty Acids (Free) 0.1mEq/L (0.0-0.6)

I had a low folate a while back don't know what it is now though
Folate 16.5nmol?L (9.0-45.0)


A recent article about Vit B and Immune system made the whole picture even more complex because Vit B12 deficiency is one of the co-incidences in MS;

HOW THE BODY USES VITAMIN B TO RECOGNISE BACTERIAL INFECTION.


Professor Jamie Rossjohn

11 October 2012
Professor Jamie Rossjohn

An Australian research team has discovered how specialised immune cells
recognise products of vitamin B synthesis that are unique to bacteria and
yeast, triggering the body to fight infection.

The finding opens up potential targets to improve treatments or to develop a
vaccine for tuberculosis.

The study, jointly led by the University of Melbourne and Monash University
and published today in the journal Nature, has revealed for the first time
that the highly abundant mucosal associated invariant T cells (MAIT cells),
recognise products of vitamin B synthesis from bacteria and yeast in an
early step to activating the immune system.

The research revealed how by-products of bacterial vitamin synthesis,
including some derived from Folic acid or vitamin B9 and Riboflavin or
vitamin B2, could be captured by the immune receptor MR1 thus fine-tuning
the activity of MAIT cells.

Dr Lars Kjer-Nielsen from the University of Melbourne led the five year
study.

"Humans are unable to make vitamin B and obtain it mostly from diet. Because
bacteria can synthesise vitamin B, our immune system uses this as a point of
difference to recognise infection," he said.

"Given the relative abundance of the MAIT cells lining mucosal and other
surfaces, such as the intestine, the mouth, lungs, it is quite probable that
they play a protective role in many infections from thrush to tuberculosis.

"This is a significant discovery that unravels the long sought target of
MAIT cells and their role in immunity to infection."

Professor James McCluskey of the Department of Microbiology and Immunology
at the University of Melbourne said the discovery opened up opportunities
for vaccine development and other potential therapeutics.

"This is a major breakthrough in which Australian researchers have beaten
many strong research teams around the world, becoming the first to unlock
the mystery of what drives a key component of our immune system," he said.

Monash University's Professor Jamie Rossjohn said the findings had major
implications for understanding the interplay between gut bacteria and the
immune system.

"Some vitamin by-products appear to drive immunity while others dampen it,"
Professor Rossjohn said.

The next step is to explore whether MAIT cells might also be involved in
intestinal or mucosal disorders such as inflammatory bowel disease and
irritable bowel syndrome.

"This discovery now cracks open a new field in immunology and we can expect
many research groups to focus their attention on this system," Professor
Rossjohn said.

"The discovery also involved collaborators at Melbourne's Bio21 Molecular
Science and Biotechnology Institute, Metabolomics Australia and the
University of Queensland, reflecting the importance of collaboration between
researchers to be globally competitive," Professor McCluskey said.

The research was supported by the Australian Research Council and the
National Health and Medical Research Council of Australia.



http://myscienceacademy.org/2012/10/12/ ... infection/

NZer1 wrote:Quote from http://fibrotv.com/2012/09/the-magnesiu ... -not-know/
Magnesium is the key factor in converting vitamin D-3 into 1,25D? the only form of vitamin D the body can use. Magnesium from supplements does not work well because the body has a difficult time metabolizing minerals that are not combined with food. Because of this, magnesium rich vegetables are the simplest, easiest, and most efficient way for the body to build up a sufficient store of magnesium to meet the body’s various every day needs. Having a deficiency of magnesium is not only harmful to the body, it is wasteful; your body will not be able to convert all of the vitamin D-3 you are getting, from supplements or sun, into its useable form.
.................
Beef Liver
A 3.5-ounce serving of cooked beef liver contains about 50 IUs of vitamin D — and several other nutrients. You’ll also be getting vitamin A, iron and protein.
Cod Liver Oil
One tablespoon contains about 1,300 IUs of vitamin D, which is more than twice the recommended dietary allowance of 600 IUs per day.

A word of caution on using liver/cod liver oil as your sole Vit D3 source. Take care not to get too much Vit A as it can be toxic. The best way to adsorb all vitamins and minerals is through diet & sunlight. However in the 21st century it requires tenacity to obtain the correct diet. Supplements are often easier but care must be taken to ensure they are adsorbed.
The impact of these essential minerals and Vit D3 in blood is fascinating. I don't understand the topic so settle for measuring vit D3 and if still low after 5000iu/day then measure Zn,Mg,Ca,Se levels. It is a practical solution.
Thanks for posting the background info.
MarkW

NZer1 wrote:...I have a population of 52 PwMS in my district and I have done some data capture on the group.
optic neuritis is not a symptom of any of our group and from the data the vision issues are nystagmus or cranial nerve issues.

Hello Nigel,
I hoped that the NZ MS Society would have this data, worth asking them. My approach would be to measure Vit D3 levels in everyone in NZ who had a disease which could be caused by inflammation of the optic nerve not just optic neuritis. As MS is as common in NZ as Scotland I hope that some politician will sieze the opportunity of saving money and lives damaged by MS.
Kind regards,
MarkW

Doctors further understand how Zinc prevents the immune system going out of control. A protein called NF-kB lures zinc into the immune cells that responded fastest to fight infection. Once inside, the zinc then put the brakes on further activity in the NF-kB pathway, slowing down the immune response and limiting the amount of inflammation.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-21372790