This Is MS Multiple Sclerosis Knowledge & Support Community

Hi everyone,

This is my first post and not a topic for those on day 1 learning about MS.

I suffered a severe wound in an industrial accident.
The wound was contaminated by the inocuous chemical Sodium Nitrite.
In an attempt to save me from amputation the wound was washed out with Hydrogen Peroxide during debridement operations.

According to my studies Sodium Nitrite + Hydrogen Peroxide = Peroxynitrite

Peroxynitrite is i understand the cyclic culprit of immune system apoptosis and responsible for the damage in MS.

Shortly after my accident and the above chemical exposure i developed symptoms and was diagnosed as having MS.

Coincidence?

Please feel free to postulate.

"Peroxynitrite is i understand the cyclic culprit of immune system apoptosis and responsible for the damage in MS"

I have been studying MS for years and I have not heard that. May I ask where you got that info?

PeroxynitriteABC wrote:I suffered a severe wound in an industrial accident.
The wound was contaminated by the inocuous chemical Sodium Nitrite.
In an attempt to save me from amputation the wound was washed out with Hydrogen Peroxide during debridement operations.

According to my studies Sodium Nitrite + Hydrogen Peroxide = Peroxynitrite

Peroxynitrite is i understand the cyclic culprit of immune system apoptosis and responsible for the damage in MS.

Shortly after my accident and the above chemical exposure i developed symptoms and was diagnosed as having MS.

I am curious… Were you given nitrous oxide so that you could better endure the debridement operations?

PeroxynitriteABC wrote:Shortly after my accident and the above chemical exposure i developed symptoms and was diagnosed as having MS.
Coincidence?
Please feel free to postulate.

Are you the first and only one to have been exposed? Either way, with a sample of 1, it would mathematically still be a co-incidence until more people are included in your sample.

David1949 wrote:"Peroxynitrite is i understand the cyclic culprit of immune system apoptosis and responsible for the damage in MS"

I have been studying MS for years and I have not heard that. May I ask where you got that info?

See the thesis MS UNRAVELED in the posting of 10 Aug on this page

http://www.thisisms.com/forum/general-d ... 8-720.html

and then search for "peroxynitrite"

It is all explained there.

David1949 wrote:"Peroxynitrite is i understand the cyclic culprit of immune system apoptosis and responsible for the damage in MS"

I have been studying MS for years and I have not heard that. May I ask where you got that info?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/1654835


"Our results indicate that the oligodendrocyte loss and demyelination observed in MS and spinal cord injury may be due to the toxic effects of Peroxynitrite on oligodendrocytes."

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 2898000782

Peroxynitrite, generated by the reaction of nitric oxide (NO) with superoxide at sites of inflammation, is a strong oxidant capable of damaging tissues and cells. Detection of nitrotyrosine (NT) at inflammatory sites serves as a biochemical marker for peroxynitrite-mediated damage. In this study, NT was detected immunohistochemically within autopsied CNS tissues from six of nine multiple sclerosis (MS) patients, and in most of the MS sections displaying inflammation. Nitrite and nitrate, the stable oxidation products of NO and peroxynitrite, respectively, were measured in cerebrospinal fluid samples obtained from MS patients and controls. Levels of nitrate were elevated significantly during clinical relapses of MS. These data suggest that peroxynitrite formation is a major consequence of NO produced in MS-affected CNS and implicate a role for this powerful oxidant in the pathogenesis of MS.

Peroxynitrite is highly destructive.
Causing
Apoptosis.
Programmed Cell Death.
Oxidative stress.
ROS.
RNS.
DNA oxidation and nitration.
Lipid oxidation, peroxidation and nitration
Protein oxidation.
DNA strand alterations and breakdown.
Mitochondrial dysfunction.

There are many published medical studies on the effects of Peroxynitrite.
Pub Med has hundreds.

lyndacarol wrote:

PeroxynitriteABC wrote:I suffered a severe wound in an industrial accident.
The wound was contaminated by the inocuous chemical Sodium Nitrite.
In an attempt to save me from amputation the wound was washed out with Hydrogen Peroxide during debridement operations.

According to my studies Sodium Nitrite + Hydrogen Peroxide = Peroxynitrite

Peroxynitrite is i understand the cyclic culprit of immune system apoptosis and responsible for the damage in MS.

Shortly after my accident and the above chemical exposure i developed symptoms and was diagnosed as having MS.

I am curious… Were you given nitrous oxide so that you could better endure the debridement operations?

Yes I was administered nitrous oxide during severe pain episodes in hospital between the operations.

CureOrBust wrote:

PeroxynitriteABC wrote:Shortly after my accident and the above chemical exposure i developed symptoms and was diagnosed as having MS.
Coincidence?
Please feel free to postulate.

Are you the first and only one to have been exposed? Either way, with a sample of 1, it would mathematically still be a co-incidence until more people are included in your sample.

It would appear Peroxynitrite does form in MS and is highly destructive. It is not known what triggers the production of Peroxynitrite in MS.
Having it introduced to my body rather than it naturally occurring I'm sure has not been studied previously.
But surely how Peroxynitrite got there makes no difference to the chemicals ability to cause damage.

PeroxynitriteABC wrote:

CureOrBust wrote:

PeroxynitriteABC wrote:Shortly after my accident and the above chemical exposure i developed symptoms and was diagnosed as having MS.
Coincidence?
Please feel free to postulate.

Are you the first and only one to have been exposed? Either way, with a sample of 1, it would mathematically still be a co-incidence until more people are included in your sample.

It would appear Peroxynitrite does form in MS and is highly destructive. It is not known what triggers the production of Peroxynitrite in MS.
Having it introduced to my body rather than it naturally occurring I'm sure has not been studied previously.
But surely how Peroxynitrite got there makes no difference to the chemicals ability to cause damage.

I think it is the EBV infected and immortalised B cells that produce superoxide that trigger... see my thesis.

The role of B-cells in the pathogenesis of MS is well accepted these days.

Very interesting reading and a viral trigger to instigate an immune response does seem to be a much discussed theory of causality in MS.
Peroxynitrite is a chemical immune response that seems to result from the very reasons you have detailed.
The theory's out there detail the possibilities of why the immune system triggers the damage.
My body has not needed a trigger as I was given Peroxynitrite.
Wether this can cause MS is obviously debatable.
The destructive element of this chemical is in no doubt.

PeroxynitriteABC wrote:

lyndacarol wrote:

PeroxynitriteABC wrote:I suffered a severe wound in an industrial accident.
The wound was contaminated by the inocuous chemical Sodium Nitrite.
In an attempt to save me from amputation the wound was washed out with Hydrogen Peroxide during debridement operations.

According to my studies Sodium Nitrite + Hydrogen Peroxide = Peroxynitrite

Peroxynitrite is i understand the cyclic culprit of immune system apoptosis and responsible for the damage in MS.

Shortly after my accident and the above chemical exposure i developed symptoms and was diagnosed as having MS.

I am curious… Were you given nitrous oxide so that you could better endure the debridement operations?

Yes I was administered nitrous oxide during severe pain episodes in hospital between the operations.

Please be aware that nitrous oxide inactivates the body's vitamin B12, and the first symptoms of B12 deficiency are neurological in nature (and are identical to MS – only thorough B12 screening can distinguish the two. The "serum B12" test alone is not adequate to uncover a deficiency; initial testing should also include at least the serum homocysteine test and the methylmalonic acid test.).

In the book, Could It Be B12? An Epidemic of Misdiagnoses by Sally M. Pacholok, RN, BSN, and Jeffrey J. Stuart, D.O. (This may be available at your library.), on page 164 it states,

… nitrous oxide has an unusual property: It inactivates vitamin B12 in the body.…

Nitrous oxide causes its harmful effects by irreversibly oxidizing the cobalt in vitamin B12…

There is additional information in the "B12 insufficiency/MS" thread in the "Natural Approach" forum ( http://www.thisisms.com/forum/natural-a ... 24857.html)

Now you mention it my brainstem lesion looked more like Wernicke's encephalopathy. That's down to B vitamin deficiency isn't it?
But I do display inthracel oligoclonal in CSF tests.
(Forgive my spelling)
My second opinion concurs MS.
Thank you for the info.
Very interesting reading.

PeroxynitriteABC wrote:But I do display inthracel oligoclonal in CSF tests.
(Forgive my spelling)

Posted by NHE, on May 30, 2014, http://www.thisisms.com/forum/undiagnos ... ml#p225802 :

Here's a paper which states that oligoclonal bands are found in B12 deficiency.

Magnetic resonance imaging (MRI), cranial computerized tomography (CCT), evoked potentials and cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) analysis in five patients with funicular myelosis.
Neurosurg Rev. 1987;10(3):209-11. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3502675

Five Patients with vitamin B12 deficiency were examined by means of MRI, CCT, VEP, BAEP, EEG, and CSF. In 3 patients medianus-SEP and EMG/ENG were recorded as well. Partly, findings of MRI, CCT, VEP, BAEP, SEP, and CSF were similar to those in multiple sclerosis. This is not very surprising considering that the central nervous system lesions in vitamin B12 deficiency consist of disseminated demyelination. Because of this all these investigative techniques must be considered non-specific. Appraisal of findings is only possible in connection with the case history, clinical findings, and supplementary diagnostic measurements.

it would appear as if the diagnosis MS gets little meaning.
there is an underlying process that causes the symptoms.
it is crucial to understand that process; all the way through there has been too much focus on symptoms.

I am sure oxidative stress (and peroxynitrite) is a big factor in that process.
Where epigenetics and cell phenotypes are affected by that process.
Where I believe oxidative stress is causal (at least in part) rather than caused by "the process".

PeroxynitriteABC wrote:

lyndacarol wrote:

PeroxynitriteABC wrote:I suffered a severe wound in an industrial accident.
The wound was contaminated by the inocuous chemical Sodium Nitrite.
In an attempt to save me from amputation the wound was washed out with Hydrogen Peroxide during debridement operations.

According to my studies Sodium Nitrite + Hydrogen Peroxide = Peroxynitrite

Peroxynitrite is i understand the cyclic culprit of immune system apoptosis and responsible for the damage in MS.

Shortly after my accident and the above chemical exposure i developed symptoms and was diagnosed as having MS.

I am curious… Were you given nitrous oxide so that you could better endure the debridement operations?

Yes I was administered nitrous oxide during severe pain episodes in hospital between the operations.

As LyndaCarol mentioned, nitrous oxide inactivates B12 and impairs the function of the methionine synthase enzyme for which B12 is a cofactor. There are many free papers available at http://journals.lww.com/anesthesia-anal ... e+synthase discussing the dangers of nitrous oxide. Here's one...

Nitrous Oxide Decreases Cortical Methionine Synthase Transiently but Produces Lasting Memory Impairment in Aged Rats
http://journals.lww.com/anesthesia-anal ... ne.21.aspx

BACKGROUND: Nitrous oxide is a commonly used anesthetic that inhibits the activity of methionine synthase, an enzyme involved in methylation reactions and DNA synthesis and repair. This inhibition triggers vacuole formation and degeneration of neurons in areas of the developing and mature brain that are important for spatial memory, raising the possibility that nitrous oxide might have sustained effects on learning.

METHODS: To test this possibility, we randomized 18-month-old Fischer 344 rats (n = 13 per group) to 4 h of 70% nitrous oxide + 30% oxygen or 70% nitrogen + 30% oxygen (control) and assessed memory using a 12-arm radial maze for 14 days beginning 2 days after nitrous oxide inhalation. In separate, identically treated groups of rats, we measured methionine synthase activity in the cortex and liver at the end of nitrous oxide exposure and 2 days later (n = 3 rats per group per time point) using a standard assay.

RESULTS: Liver and cortical methionine synthase was inhibited during nitrous oxide inhalation (6% and 23% of control in liver and cortex, respectively; P < 0.01). Liver enzyme activity remained depressed 2 days later, whereas cortical enzyme activity recovered. There was no difference in error rate between control and nitrous oxide treated rats. However, those exposed to nitrous oxide took more time to complete the maze and made fewer correct choices before first error (P < 0.05).

CONCLUSIONS: Sedation with 70% nitrous oxide profoundly, but transiently, reduces the activity of cortical methionine synthase but produces lasting impairment in spatial working memory in aged rats.


Repeated doses of nitrous oxide put you at risk for B12 deficiency.