CCSVI and CCVBP

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:50 pm

Torn discs in the spine and meniscuses in the knee don't heal. Herniated discs aren't inflammed their swollen. Swollen discs compress nerves and aggravate connective tissues and muscles that result in inflammation. Discs are fairly quiet. They are deep in the back beneath muscles the posterior ring of the spine and the spinal cord. Unlike the discs (meniscus) in the knees they don't rub on tissues that would make noise. On the othr hand the synovial joint capsules and connective tissues of the spine can be very noisy. The joint capsules highly susceptible to inflammation. Inflammation dries them out and makes them sticky. If their associated discs and connective tissue are degenerated they even more susceptible to inflammation.

I would have to agree with Dr. Schelling regarding the cervical cord lesions and the dentate ligament. Whiplash-type strains on the dentate ligaments are amplified by venous blood and CSF inversion flows in the cord.

The vast majority of degenerative conditions of the spine are due to mechanical causes not bacteria but bacteria tend to attack degenerating tissues. I have seen some really bad backs in farmers, factory and construction workers. Plumbers were the worst and if anyone should have chronic infections it's plumbers. Most of them had nothing to do with infections. Inflammatory arthritides are another story as are cardiovascular causes and diabetes. They have many causes.

I suspect that Lhermitte's is due to adverse mechanical tension in the dura and dentate ligaments such as local tethering by adhesions of connective tissue of the cord to bone spurs such as in Blossom's case.

Orthopedic surgeons are the experts on infections of the spine following injuries.

I can see a potential connection between infection and MS but it is difficult to see how infections are a common cause of disc bulges, disc degeneration, spondylosis, scoliosis, stenosis, craniocervical junction malformations, Chiari malformation, Dandy-Walker Syndromes, hydrocephalus etc., etc.. Most are due to mechanical causes.
User avatar
uprightdoc
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1745
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:00 pm
Location: USA

Advertisement

Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby NZer1 » Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:44 pm

Thanks Dr F I have changed my original thought/comments that Infection was primary, well burn that box actually,
the injury then infection from a preloaded 'infected' immune cell such as a macrophage is all it takes to enable the intracellular beasts to spread throughout the body, inflammation site to inflammation site and then the dividing process liberates the cyst forms over time when conditions are right.
From what I have read now that testing/technology has caught up, the incidence of intracellular bacteria everywhere in the body where there has been immune system involvement is common.
The Medical profession and researchers are only just learning and accepting the influence of bacteria and they only understand and are able to identify 0.4% of bacteria in Humans.

Loose thought,
If we are made up of foreign cells then if those cells have a collective consciousness, who are we?

So it is not uncommon for denial of the infection/inflammation involvement in degenerative disease progression, and of course the cell wall damage of endothelial cells by intracellular bacteria and the risk that posses is huge!
It will be interesting as technology increases and some more substance is documented by people like Prof Nicolson.

:)
Nigel
User avatar
NZer1
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1527
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 3:00 pm
Location: Rotorua New Zealand

Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby dania » Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:01 am

Dr Flanagan would the services of this place help me?
Dr Huang only works 2 days a week. I can see/feel the 2 treatments have helped me but I would like to have more per week.
http://healthmedica.ca/services/spinal-decompression
User avatar
dania
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1088
Joined: Wed May 12, 2010 2:00 pm
Location: St Lazare Quebec

Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:57 am

Yes but not the spinal decompression therapy.

Most advertised decompression tables are typically basic long axis traction. I had several types of long axis traction. There good for some stretching and spinal rehabilitation but they have limited decompression capabilities and they aren't effective for the thoracic and thoracolumbar spine or intersegmental traction. I used total body long axis traction to pull patients from both ends along with intersegmental rollers that move up and down the spine. Save your money. Stick with the Cox 7 FD for the spine.

Instead of the FD I would recommend the deep tissue massage. See if they will do it with the hot stone therapy or hot packs rather than with Swedish massage. The DTM will compliment the FD treatments and help rehabilitate adhesions in muscles and connective tissues, as well as move lymph and vitalize circulation.
User avatar
uprightdoc
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1745
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:00 pm
Location: USA

Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby dania » Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:09 am

TY.They also have TENS. And I was wondering if a small, handheld vibrator that I could put on my legs, arms etc would help?
User avatar
dania
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1088
Joined: Wed May 12, 2010 2:00 pm
Location: St Lazare Quebec

Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Sun Apr 28, 2013 12:15 pm

It won't hurt but you are better off having a professional do an assesment and work on what you need. I know your back muscles could use some work.
User avatar
uprightdoc
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1745
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:00 pm
Location: USA

Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby NZer1 » Sun Apr 28, 2013 3:18 pm

Brief synapse connection so I will ask whilst it lasts.

** Dr F if there is evidence of disc degeneration for instance by MRI, is that indicating that the disc is dysfunctional and that it is not 'holding' the vertebrae(s) in place by itself?

Extrapolation of that, I assume that the muscles connected nearby are doing some of work and possibly that shows on 'films'?

**How common is disc degeneration and 'MS'?

** Do the muscles grow is size when they are performing the task of the dysfunctional disc?

** Do the coping muscles impinge on eg vasculature or nerves?

I read an article earlier that Joan linked re muscle compressions and wondered as you do.

Gone,
Nigel
User avatar
NZer1
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1527
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 3:00 pm
Location: Rotorua New Zealand

Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:31 am

MRI shows degenerated discs that decrease the normal space between segements as well as slippage called listhesis of effected vertebra on their neighboring segements due to ligament laxity causing segmental instability.

Muscle work doesn't show on and MRI.

Disc degeneration is common in the general public and increases with aging. It is uncommon to have disc degeneration early in life. MS can show up fairly early when disc degeneration suggests possible traumatic causes.

The paraspinal muscles associated with a degenerated disc tend to become irritated, hypertonic and stiff.

Except for capillaries and small regional blood vessels as well as C-fiber type nerves, paraspinal muscles don't impinge on vasculature or nerves per se. Hypertonic muscles effect perfusion pressure and develop areas of chronic ischemia and irriation called trigger points. They also irriate C-fiber pain nerves due to compression.

Muscles don't compress. Muscles contract. There are muscle and connective tissue tunnels in the body that can compress blood vessels and nerves such as in the pelvis and thoracic outlets and the carpal tunnel. The suboccipital cavernous sinus is also effected by muscle tenison and compression.
User avatar
uprightdoc
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1745
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:00 pm
Location: USA

Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:19 am

Dissociation of CSF flow between the cranial vault and spinal canal is a suspected cause of hydrocephalus in the brain and hydromyelia (syrinx/cavity) in the cord. Faulty CSF flow plays a role in many neurodegenerative conditions associated with hydrocephalus.

http://uprightdoctor.wordpress.com/
User avatar
uprightdoc
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1745
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:00 pm
Location: USA

Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby blossom » Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:00 pm

dania, if you get a massager such as hand held small one and it is the type that buzzes or vibrates i'll be curious as to how you feel after useing. when i've tried that type although it didn't feel to bad while useing it the after effects were bad. hard to explain the type of pain and burning achy feeling it stirred up. on the other hand the type that roll or knead feel good and has a better effect. i wish i could find one to sit on all the time. there is one i found that has changeing air flow to help prevent pressure sores made for wheelchairs but they are very pricey and ins. will not pay and they can not be returned if it isn't doing what you expect. but we're all different in ways, thanks for posting all your questions and treatments and results-it gets people thinking and trying.
User avatar
blossom
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1378
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 3:00 pm
Location: south western pa.

Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby NZer1 » Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:33 pm

Delayed recall has just kicked in and I can understand what you are saying clearly.
The thought that I have is that the important parts of the brain functionally seem very close to the largest areas or room for fluid expansion.

**Are the Thalamus and Hypothalamus adjacent to the CSF fluid reservoirs/ventricles and at risk of crushing from CCSVI back jets and reflux, therefore compression of the CSF within the Skull?**

**Would it would link the observations of Franz Schelling and also BNAC's recent 2 study findings where the damage (atrophy of the Thalamus and Hypothalamus) is found most commonly in CCSVI and 'MS', and most likely to be symptomatic?**

** Would the back jets from the Spinal Cord (the Oppenheimer upper cervical MS lesions) also be projecting/squirting to the same area with in Brain, the ventricles, which 'captures' the fluid expansion because of location and size?"

Quotes from your article Dr F that switched on the lights of thought;
http://uprightdoctor.wordpress.com/

"Ventriculomegaly can be caused by anything that obstructs the pathways and normal flow of CSF, or it can be caused by inadequate absorption of CSF"
"Sometimes they are simply referred to as a syrinx. For now suffice it to say, they are abnormal cavities in the cord that are probably caused by pressure problems within the cord, similar to hydrocephalus which is due to pressure problems in the brain."
"The arachnoid granulations are one-way valves that connect the subarachnoid space to the superior sagittal sinus. The superior sagittal sinus is part of the venous drainage system of the brain located at the top of the skull."
"Likewise, ventriculomegaly seen in neurodegenerative diseases such as Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s and multiple sclerosis is typically attributed to atrophy of periventricular structures that surround the ventricles. Ventriculomegaly seen in NPH, on the other hand, is typically attributed to enlargement of the ventricles without atrophy of the surrounding tissues and structures. The problem is, the ventricles don’t always return to normal size when excess CSF volume is surgically decreased with a shunt. This led researchers to suggest that, the sustained enlargement of the ventricles may be due to permanent damage to the surrounding periventricular structures as a result of the NPH."
"There are two primary theories regarding the origin of NPH. The first theory has to do with obstruction of CSF flow or blockage of resorption into the venous drainage system of the brain discussed above. The other theory is that NPH is due to atrophy of surrounding structures, such as the periventricular white matter that gets strained and tensioned to the point of breaking, causing the walls of the ventricles to weaken and enlarge. Enlargement of the ventricles also stretches, strains and compresses surrounding blood vessels that can decrease blood flow and cause ischemic tissue damage. In either case, the subsequent weakness in the walls of the ventricles and surrounding structures cause the ventricles to enlarge. NPH, in turn, increases tension, tangential and shear stresses in the brain, as well as compression loads caused by expansion and contraction of the brain with each beat of the heart that forces a relatively large volume of fluid into the mostly closed container of the cranial vault."
"Aside from internal problems in CSF pathways of the brain inside the cranial vault, researchers now suspect that one of the causes of hydrocephalus in children and adults is a dissociation of CSF flow between the cranial vault and spinal canal. Dissociation simply means that the normal flow between the two compartments is disrupted, and as a result they react independantly. Among other things, this can cause potentially destructive abnormal increases in CSF pressure waves in the brain and cord. Dissociation of CSF flow between the two compartments may similarly play a role in hydromyelia and other conditions of the cord."
"Upright posture requires proper CSF flow between the cranial and spinal compartments in order to maintain the correct volume, pressure, protection and bouyancy of the brain. Excess CSF volume in the ventricles, cisterns and subarachnoid spaces can cause destructive tension (stretch) and compression loads in the brain. An insufficient volume reduces bouyancy, which causes the brain to sink and make contact with the base of the skull. The connection between the cranial compartment and spinal compartment is in the upper cervical spine. Malformations, injuries and misalignments of the upper cervical spine can cause a dissociation of CSF flow between the cranial and spinal compartment. Further below in the lower spine, spondylosis (degeneration), scoliosis (abnormal curvature) and stenosis (narrowing) alter the design of the spinal canal and thus affect blood and CSF flow. The changes in the design of the spinal canal can, likewise, result in a dissociation of CSF flow between the cranial vault and spinal canal. Thus far, the studies on dissociation of CSF flow between the cranial vault and spinal canal have all been done using supine MRI. Future research will need to be done using upright MRI. Upright MRI will most likely reveal much more about the destructive consequences of dissociation of CSF flow between the cranial vault and spinal canal."
"The areas hardest hit by faulty fluid mechanics in the cranial vault are: 1) the periventricular structures that surround the ventricles, 2) the bottom surfaces of the brain, brainstem and cerebellum located above the base of the skull that are surrounded and supported by the cisterns, and 3) the cortex of the brain closest to the inner surface of the skull. The particular areas that are affected are determined by the cause and the consequences of the faulty CSF flow."

Regards :)
Nigel
chronic-cerebrospinal-venous-insufficiency-ccsvi-f40/topic14005-3030.html
User avatar
NZer1
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1527
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 3:00 pm
Location: Rotorua New Zealand

Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Wed May 01, 2013 1:16 am

The thalamus forms the walls of the third ventricle. Ventriculomegaly of the third ventricle effects the thalamus. The hypothalamus, pituitary stalk and pituitary gland are effected by CSF volume and flow in the suprasellar and interchiasmatic cisterns. CSF reflux and inversion flows most likely effect structures surrounded by the cisterns. Structures surrounding the ventricles are effected by ventriculomegaly. The thalamus may also be effected by venous inversion flows that impact the straight sinus. Backjets between the spinal canal and cranial vault most likely effect the structures surrounded by the cisterns. If there is a dissociation of CSF flow between the spinal canal and cranial vault, inversion flows will cause increased CSF pressure waves in the cord.
User avatar
uprightdoc
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1745
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:00 pm
Location: USA

Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby NZer1 » Wed May 01, 2013 1:32 am

Will the Upright MRI have a program to support your knowledge?

It almost seems like the composition of the Thalamus etc may be 'softer' than the tissues of the other regions around the ventricles?

I atrophy the best term that has been coined for what is seen on standard MRI?

I laughed when I saw the comment ""Thalamic atrophy may become a hallmark of how we look at the disease and how we develop drugs to treat it," Dr. Zivadinov said.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 091107.htm"

Too many drug addicted Researchers and Neurologists? lol

Need sleep now, :)
Nigel
User avatar
NZer1
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1527
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 3:00 pm
Location: Rotorua New Zealand

Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Wed May 01, 2013 3:12 am

The thalamus is vulnerable due to its location. Likewise blood vessels and the myelinated tracts of the internal capsule that are located next to the thalamus are vulnerable to tension, shear and compression stress loads. Atrophy is the best explanation for the ventriculomegaly and mega cisterns seen in most neurodegenerative conditions. In some cases, tissues return to normal size after CSF volume and pressure have been decreased. This means they were compressed and not atrophied. The thalamus is also susceptible to ischemia.
User avatar
uprightdoc
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1745
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:00 pm
Location: USA

Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby NZer1 » Wed May 01, 2013 11:55 am

Over nite pondering,

** Is the thalamus, hypothalamus, pituitary stalk and pituitary gland parts of the brain that don't recover well from the compression, tension, shear and ischemia issues and therefore de-generation is often the outcome?

I get the opinion that these areas are the main symptom generating regions in most of the diseases we discuss and recovery from the injury and or ongoing vascular associated problems isn't well understood.

** The moving image you have on your post would be a huge step towards understanding what is physically happening with blood pulsing, is this something new?

Since I have begun understanding this whole 'compression by blood that becomes a compression by CSF symptom cascade' issue from your post, it makes logical understanding for me with my history of injuries and the onset of the dramatic symptoms.
The original sports injuries would have been the foundation stones for the symptoms throughout late teens to late forties and straw that tipped me over was the lifting injury when I also tore the rotator cuffs in both shoulders and damaged my neck muscles and discs.
The symptom increase to 'full blown' 'MS' developed during the rehab and recovery time of the 'last injury' and the ongoing de-generation was exacerbated by the flair in the CPn infection that occurred during the rehab and was noticed by the Muscular-Skeletal Specialist at the time. So having the underlying CPn infection from an early age was a cascade in waiting.

Understanding makes a difference for me with a spatially wired brain!

:)
Nigel
User avatar
NZer1
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1527
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 3:00 pm
Location: Rotorua New Zealand

PreviousNext

Return to Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency (CCSVI)

 


  • Related topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Robnl


Contact us | Terms of Service