A new concept and treatment options for MS

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Re: A new concept for MS

Postby Leonard » Thu Nov 28, 2013 7:02 am

Vesta, you touch on a very complex issue.

I think we better avoid GMOs as long as the implications on the gastro intestinal tract have not been fully understood, in particular on the long-term.
Where in fact I think we are far from that.

The same applies to the consumption of modern food that results from crossing, hybridisation, backcrossing etc. e.g. of wheat.
From recent publications, I note a tendency in agro universities to create and also with small farmers to grow new forms of wheat that are more closely related to the old artisanal varieties.
In the university work there is an underlying assumption that current modern breeds exhibit food safety issues (some refs in above postings refer).
Interesting to note in this respect that the 14th Century pest pandemic has allegedly been linked to an overconsumption of wheat that may have been crossed already for the first time in the centuries B.C.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Death
Given the fast rising statistics of autoimmune diseases now affecting already a significant proportion of our population, people should exercise extra caution with GMOs and modern (wheat) breeds.

The issue of intensive agriculture and soil depletion is another food related problem that needs to be taken serious.
See e.g. http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... ition-loss
According to reports, past civilisations have collapsed (e.g. Sumeria) due to overfarming certain areas.
I am not arguing that MS is directly related to the food chain.
In fact, CCSVI and an inflammated/leaky intestine are believed to be the main causal factors.
But low quality food without sufficient nutritional content may accelerate degeneration in genetically susceptible people.
The success of the Terry Walhs diet would at least seem to hint at a relationship.

A certain proportion of our food is these day produced by hydroculture/hydroponic plant growth.
I quote from the refs below:
Phytonutrients protect us against many chronic diseases, such as heart disease, stroke and cancer. They are even claimed to reverse the process of aging. Richer colors = more phytonutrients
One feeble attempt was made some years back by local scientists who measured the level of about a dozen vitamins and minerals, such as vitamin A,vitamin C, potassium, etc. They ignored scores of other vitamins and minerals plus possibly 10,000 or more phytonutrients, and concluded that such vegetables were "equally nutritious".
However, recent nutritional discoveries about phytonutrients strongly suggest that hydroponic vegetables have much lower content of phytonutrients compared to organic vegetables.
Till today, 2011, there are still no broad-based nutritional studies on hydroponic vegetables, nor studies about their long-term health effects.

A bit of searching on Google shows evidence of attempts to re-engineer the soil by adding additives for stimulating (some?) phytonutritients in hydroponic grown plants; I guess of researchers using the general population as their Guinea Pig... oh my God...
http://www.natural-cancer-cures.com/hyd ... ables.html
http://www.natural-cancer-cures.com/phytonutrients.html
http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/ ... ot-for-me/

Also vaccination may be an issue.
The process of vaccination has helped us to increase quality of life immensly over the last 100 years, but may now have passed the point of maximum benefit. The focus of vaccinations on less deadly diseases may have balanced the scales where vaccination risks outweigh any benefits that may be received, awakening EBV or other virus or bacteria because of immune system (read vaccination induced) gut disorder.

Main trends in societal health are telling; the current surge of autoimmune diseases is an important signal that needs to be taken extremely serious.
Our current system for medical care is in a deadly spiral, in particular as regards the diagnosis and treatment paradigm of chronic (read in particular immune system) diseases.
New insight in MS may help transform the health care system.
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Re: A new concept for MS

Postby Leonard » Mon Dec 23, 2013 8:56 am

Progressive MS is not primarily a neurological disease; its aetiology is very different from RR.
It is a metabolic disease, a metabolic syndrome that starts with a leaky gut.
The vascular insufficiencies in the drainage (may be passed from one generation to the next) create the necessary conditions for the MS to develop, i.e. break the BBB, weaken the endothelium, cause havoc on the flow of Cerebro Spinal Fluids.

Endocrinologists have not diagnosed and treated MS, possibly because of red tape in the medical and pharmaceutical system.
Driven by perverse drivers in the system, the endocrinology itself developed in the wrong way, focussing too much on isolated deficiencies and organs.
It should prima facia look at the overall picture, the family history etc., i.e. take a veterinarian look.
http://dogtorj.com/what-is-food-intoler ... leaky-gut/

The picture that emerges then goes as follows:
At mid age the gut lining breaks; caused by our food; some people are more sensitive than others, somewhat genetically determined.
http://celiacdisease.about.com/b/2013/0 ... g-soon.htm
The brain is not protected because the BBB has broken.
Immune complexes leak into the circulation and cause havoc to the endothelium, including the sensitive tissue in the brain.
Hypo perfusion causes inflammation of the cartilage of the dural sinuses (just like it would cause rheuma in the joints if low blood flow); toxic substances leak into the cerebral compartment.
The hypothalamus and pituitary gland are affected causing a waterfall of hormonal deficiencies, dysregulation of the endocrine system.
The cellular feeding runs down, affecting nerves, muscles, brain tissue (lesions) etc.
Amongst others, the cortisol regulation runs down causing a further detoriation of the gut lining, and establishing a vicious cycle.

The leaky gut can be diagnosed, positively and with confidence; the food sensitivities be determined.
Apart from liberation of ccsvi, getting control over our gut and rebalancing the endocrine system would seem to me a first important step in getting control over our disease.
Hormonal administration may help break the vicious cycle.
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The gut-brain axis

Postby Leonard » Mon Dec 30, 2013 12:48 am

wow, please take your time and read this overview...

http://syontix.com/the-gut-brain-axis-h ... enal-axis/

My assessment: this is a great overview that puts the hormonal dimension of progressive MS in context.

I can see two somewhat contradictory effects here:
On the one side, more cortisol will calm down the immune system.
On the other side, more cortisol will increase the permeability of the gut, more endotoxins will leak into the circulation, provoke an immune response. As a result even more cortisol will be produced.

And since the immune response affects both the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) axis and the adrenals directly, the more likely it is that the signals responsible for lowering cortisol will be overwhelmed by the signals that increase it.

Apart from getting control over many influences such as stress, endorphines, food (as seen from several perspectives), etc., it will require good endocrinological craftmanship and probably a lot of time to break the cycle. But evidence is accumulating that it can be done.

I have been jogging a lot all my life until ...... it did not go anymore. Friends who have prior experience with MS once suggested that this must have kept my MS at a distance. I have felt it this way as well, almost intuitively. With this knowledge, there may be some truth in this.


Now my assessment is that in the progressive stage, the affected area is be much larger than just the brain, goes all the way down via the nerves to the muscle cells. Hence, I think MS is not only a disease where there are two different mechanisms underlying, MS is also a disease where different areas are being targetted (from brain and spinal in RR to whole body in progressive). As such, MS - both as regards its motor control and its sensory functions - concerns the serial connection of neurological pathways (in brain, in limbs) that are progressively affected. With Terry Wahls, I think that MS in the progressive stage has everything to do with mitochondrial energy failure. I started to reread her book Minding My Mitochondria and, with the knowledge acquired here over the last three years, the more I read the more I appreciate what she has done. Her analysis fits beautifully with the picture that emerges here.


I have amended the first posting on page 1 to take account of the most recent findings.
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Re: MS and the sinus

Postby Leonard » Tue Jan 07, 2014 3:11 am

Leonard wrote:This article postulates that bacteria in the sinus flora may be a factor in MS. In particular staphylococcal immune complexes are suspect.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 4813000059

I think this could well be correct. I can not remember the earliest incidences of my own MS history because they are too long ago, and I did not know anything about MS at that time. But I do remember a very heavy pressure on my head and in particular on the sinus during my last serious flare; and if I remember well it occurred over several subsequent years, always in the Spring/early Summer. I explained it for myself as a hay fever, as if I was developing an allergy… But this happened at 45/46/47 where I did not have any such reactions before. I remember I found it all a bit weird at the time, but now it finds an explanation here…

If I remember well, I even asked the neurologist who diagnosed me at 47. He responded that MS has no relationship to the sinus. Just as he said that massive chocolate consumption (see earlier posting) has no relationship to MS. With the knowledge of today, how wrong can you be...
[I remember he even went away to ask the older neurologists in the local hospital. I don't blame them. In family psychology, it is referred to as the fate of generations, this time of the neurological family...]

I looked also a bit on the staphylococcal infection on Wikipedia. Besides the toxicity argument of the article, I found that these bacteria can also cause micro-blood clots. And in fact that could cause further energy problems for the mitochondria, in particular if the BBB is breached and the endothelium is already weak. I do believe that the sinus infection is a factor in MS although it is not clear to me whether the sinus infection is causal or whether the infection is part of a bigger syndrome caused by weakened endothelial conditions in a bigger part of the head...

I have included the sinusitis in the new concept for MS on the first page..



I wish to come back to this old posting on the role of dural sinus inflammation. When it inflammates (was certainly the case for me; the issue is the binding of immune complexes due to the leaky gut to specific cells in the cartilage caused by low blood flow and blocked flow of cerebral spinal fluid, just like in rheuma arthritis), toxic substances will leak into the cerebral compartment. I think this process is an important event that kick-starts the MS progression because the mitochondria, that are supposed to neutralise the toxins, don't have the energy because the supply of energy is weak/weakened. The mitochondria will become less and less effective, the toxins build up and mitochondria will die. Studies have shown that (brain-)cell loss in MS is, in fact, mediated in part by excito-toxicity, oxidative stress, and damage to mitochondria and cellular DNA. See refs 326 - 331 in Minding My Mitochondria Terry Wahls

I have amended the 1st posting on page 1 accordingly.
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Re: A new concept for MS

Postby Leonard » Thu Jan 09, 2014 3:57 am

following the above posting about mitochondrial failure due to toxin build-up, this link refers to the positive effects you would expect from treatment by antioxidants:
general-discussion-f1/topic23993.html
http://bionews-tx.com/news/2014/01/15/a ... e-in-mice/

MS is a subtle disease. I believe that oxygen supply, in particular at night, might be an issue:
general-discussion-f1/topic24023.html
Added on 29 Jan: this seems explain and fit in the broader picture of detoxification (related to mitochiondrial energy) that is seen to emerge
http://www.therawfoodeffect.com/sleep-window-open.html
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Re: A new concept for MS

Postby Leonard » Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:01 am

http://geography.about.com/od/climate/a ... essure.htm

The normal range of the Earth's air pressure is from 980 millibars (mb) to 1050 mb.
Hence, there is difference of about 7 % between high air/oxygen and low air/oxygen pressure.

Further to the above posting on the issue of oxygen supply, I have arrived at a point in the course of my disease where I do feel a remarkable difference between low pressure and high pressure. If air pressure is high, I go remarkably well; if pressure is low however (like today), I go very difficult and need to stand still regularly to let the mitochondria pump up the system.

I think this is a confirmation again of the New concept for MS (see 1st posting pg 1).
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Re: A new concept for MS

Postby Leonard » Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:04 am

This morning, I was browsing a bit through the book of Terry Wahls Minding My Mitochondria.
For some reason, in the Glossary towards the end, the bold text below caught my eyes:

Primary progressive MS
Ten percent of people initially diagnosed with MS experience a relentless downhill course without acute symptoms. There are no effective treatments that prevent of reverse disability due to primay progressive MS (also called PPMS).

Relapse-remitting MS
Also called RRMS. Eighty percent of people initially diagnosed with MS have acute relapses of MS-related symptoms, such as visual change, weakness or pain. The nerve cells add sodium channels so that they can again transmit information, although it is somewhat slower. With time, the vast majority of RR MS patients transition into secondary MS and experience gradual worsening of symptoms without acute relapses.

Secondary progressive MS
The vast majority of patients who start with a diagnosis of RR MS will evolve into secondary progressive MS (SPMS). They will experience a gradual worsening of MS symptoms without significant changes on brain or spinal cord MRI.

And a bit earlier on in the same book: ... It is also not clear why, in spite of the absence of acute flares causing muscular weakness in secondary progressive MS, patients experience a relentless loss of strength and endurance. MRI findings do not change, pther than ...

Wow, I did not know this aspect. In my view, this fully confirms the serial hypothesis with a two-fold nature of the disease, with different underlying mechanisms attacking different areas as described in the 1st posting on pg 1.
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Re: A new concept for MS

Postby Leonard » Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:08 am

I think it is enough now.
Already in the Summer of last year, when the song broke, my daughter who has seen her farther struggling with this thing, sent me this song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5y_KJAg8bHI

Unravelling the disease has been a big challenge for me.
You may not like what I have done or the way it was presented and my theories may not be fully correct but I think the broad lines are right.

What is becoming ever more clear to me at this point is that we won't get anything changed in this way, that we will need to look elsewhere for that.
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Re: A new concept for MS

Postby vesta » Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:45 am

Leonard wrote:I think it is enough now.
Unravelling the disease has been a big challenge for me.
You may not like what I have done or the way it was presented and my theories may not be fully correct but I think the broad lines are right.

What is becoming ever more clear to me at this point is that we won't get anything changed in this way, that we will need to look elsewhere for that.


Hello Leonard: Your research and ideas are much appreciated. I don't know why you are so discouraged to say that "we won't get anything changed in this way"? Are you talking about overcoming the bias in favor of Drugs? For one thing, people can just stop taking them. It turns out the research is based on a fallacy anyway. For people with skeletal problems, they can get treated right now with a good Chiropractor, body worker. Maybe I don't understand what you mean. What have you changed in your own self treatment in keeping with your research discoveries?
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Re: A new concept for MS

Postby Leonard » Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:05 am

Vesta, we should take important guidance from the book of Terry Wahls Minding My Mitochondria.
Following our discoveries, I am convinced my problem is related to mitochondrial energy failure.

These fora are a great resource, for information, to research, to connect, to raise the dynamics, to relate things together etc.
The medium is very accessible, posting is real easy and you may even find some satisfaction from posting new ideas.

But the way to really change things for yourself is to implement her protocol.
And frankly speaking that is not so easily done, at the least not for me.
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Re: A new concept for MS

Postby Yodi » Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:18 am

Are there any PwMS here who can report the same success story as Terry Wahl by following her diet ?
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Re: A new concept for MS

Postby vesta » Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:07 am

Hello Leonard and Yodi, Under the care of a kinesiologist/nutritionist I followed a similar protocol 1984-85 and enjoyed an impressive recovery. My intestines flushed out after 6 months and at the end of the year "permanent" nerve damage healed so that my Neurologist declared I had been misdiagnosed, that such a MS recovery was impossible. (This was before the MRI was available.) However, I was put also on Standard Process supplements, and at first went through an important de-toxification. No glutens or lactose, no "poisons", no red meat (OK proteins were raw fish, some poultry) When I moved to France in 1992 I stopped the diet for 20 years and went downhill. I started it again 2 years ago (Jan 2012) and feel much better, though the deficits persist. Also it's important to get blood circulating through the brain -swimming, acupuncture, daily self acupuncture, even massage. (Terry Wahls,who stimulates her back muscles with a TENS type apparatus is in fact stimulating blood/fluid circulation through the brain CNS.) It's good to work with someone if possible. The earlier the better, I'm 65 now and don't expect the kind of recovery I enjoyed when in my 30's, but at least now (with the CCSVI theory) I have a decent chance of stopping or reducing the progression.
MS Cure Enigmas.net for more details
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Re: A new concept for MS

Postby Leonard » Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:46 am

Vesta, thank you for these words of encouragement. There is more value in them than you would probably realise.

To me, your words confirm that dieticians/nutritionists and physiotherapists/kinesiologist should come to the forefront, perhaps with some open-minded endocrinologists, to help us manage our disease; and that neurologists and MS pharmacists should disappear in the background. I could certainly use that sort of help to implement the right Wahls-like protocols for myself. And I agree with you that blood circulation and "oxygination" are important, but so is the fine balance of energy consumption/conservation.

Besides gluten grains, I think the starch, the a-cellular carb, the white flour, the sugar, they are all enemies of the phytonutrients; phytates in grain then bind to and prohibit absorption of micro and (phyto?) nutritients. With our typical high carb diet and our low quality food, we lack these essential building blocks. From the book of Terry Wahls, phytonutrients have been shown to very favourably impact mitochondrial function.

The book of Terry Wahls is a gold mine. I am currently thinking of setting up some sort of trials programme for implementing her protocols with some deviations and subtle varieties. The little postings like yours are very helpful, if it were not only to just strengthen my believes and to know that I am not alone in this.

Yodi, I know several people who have stabilised or do better after years with diet, exercise, vitamin D, and some people in fact use medication (not MS specific medication but medication related to Lupus which disease can be regarded as a chapeau for all autoimmune diseases and is targetted to addressing the HPA axis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lupus ).
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Re: A new concept for MS

Postby vesta » Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:56 am

Hello Leonard: Being located in Brussels, you're in luck. The Institut Belge de Kinésiology founded by Dominique Monette M.D. is located there. My San Francisco Kinesiologist Jimmy Scott gave workshops there and she will know who he is. If you call and say a patient of his thought she might be able to help you find a good Kinesiologist/Nutritionist, she could probably guide you. (Jimmy Scott antagonized alot of people and I doubt she worked with him for long, but he was (is) a great healer.) I can see I need to revise my entries, but you can see my first diet and a description of Muscle Testing etc on my site. MS Cure Enigmas.net. Under the heading Paleo-Macro Diet you will see the headings 1) Diet and Muscle Strength, 2) Detoxification and Suppléments, and 3) First Diet 1984. I myself should start looking for someone to recommend Suppléments available in Europe should I be unable to obtain the Standard Process. (I presently order Evening Primrose Oil and Eskimo 3 (Omega 3) through Bionutrics also situated in Belgium.) An individualized diet would be appropriate for you (for everyone actually). Good luck. Vesta
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Re: A new concept for MS

Postby Leonard » Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:11 am

NHE wrote:
Leonard wrote:@Caveman: thank you for these very valuable reflections, I have intuitively felt the same. In the last decade before my diagnosis, I had a very high sugar/cola consumption. I was raised on a farm with the real fat, 15-20 years ago (in a different family setting and environment) we switched over to olive oil (high Omega 6)...


Olive oil is rich in oleic acid which is a monounsaturated omega-9. It makes up 55-83% of the fat in olive oil.

http://www.oliveoilsource.com/page/chem ... cteristics


Further to this exchange, olive oil may be good for many things, but for patients with a raised immune system, it may be just the wrong thing.
For a long time, I have felt that it is not good for me and this website seems to confirm that.
The balance of Omega 3 vs Omega 6/9 fatty acids is key.
While Omega-3 is anti-inflammatory, the latter work pro-inflammatory.
And for some, this inflammatory nature may be an contributing element in a multi-facetted disease.

This site is interesting as well.
Again, it confirms that the problems are caused by the high carb, not by the fat.
And that we need some good fat.
And whether olive oil belongs in that category, I am not so sure anymore.
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/artic ... 20131104Z2
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