A new concept and treatment options for MS

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Re: A new concept and treatment options for MS

Postby Leonard » Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:10 am

jackblack400 wrote:
How long until we can get access to GNbAC1?

Edit: I've also been thinking about intravenous ATP supplementation. This has been proven to relieve fatigue in cancer patients. If ATP production failure is part of MS why can't that be solved by intravenous ATP supplementation?

Seen this? http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/ ... e_2017.pdf


Jack,

I don't know when GNbAC1 will become available. I picked up the link recently from a Dutch patient forum.

On the ATP supplementation, my physiotherapist suggested exactly the same. Apparently no need for intravenous administration. He used to take it when he was young and as a sportsman ran long distances. I am awaiting further advice.

Thanks for the link to the ATARA presentation. Looks well financed and managed.
Incidently, you see NasoPharyngeal Carcinoma (NPC) and Multiple Sclerosis (MS) mentioned in the same breadth. My grandfarther died from an NPC, I have MS. From my earlier postings, it is clear the two are related and how.
This article is also quite revealing: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK6235/
quote: EBV is considered a major cause of lymphomas. The putative involvement of the HERV protein in EBV-related growth stimulation of B cells raises the possibility that immunization against the HERV protein, or prevention of its expression via transduction of anti-sense constructs, might inhibit EBV lymphomagenesis. This would be a logical consequence of the results of Sutkowski et al194 There are many reasons to clarify this issue (see below). unquote
Cancer and MS: two sides to the same coin. Interesting, isn't it?

Reg,
Last edited by Leonard on Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:59 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: A new concept and treatment options for MS

Postby Leonard » Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:14 am

The causes and very mechanisms underlying MS are set out in the Skeleton and synopsis under the links:
general-discussion-f1/topic15188-810.html#p248066
general-discussion-f1/topic15188-795.html#p245692
[and there may be some further useful ideas in here: http://www.mshackathon.nl/wp-content/up ... ressed.pdf ]

The ACTRIMS Feb 2017 Florida Forum covers exactly the same ingredients and would seem to confirm the thinking. See:
https://multiplesclerosisnewstoday.com/ ... o-florida/
The focus ... will be environmental factors, genetics, and epigenetics in MS susceptibility and clinical course. Presenters will disclose recent advances on the relationship between MS susceptibility and diet; the effects of sex chromosomes, hormones, and puberty on the risk of MS and the clinical course of the disease; reveal emerging data on the role of the microbiome in MS development; review controversies regarding the role of viruses in MS; convey state-of-the-art data on genetic and epigenetic factors as risk factors and disease modulators in MS; and other MS-related topics of interest. unquote
or
http://www.actrims.org/forum2017/index. ... -abstracts
http://www.actrims.org/forum2017/index. ... t-a-glance

The therapeutic options mentioned under the first link above flow directly from a basic understanding of the disease.

The work by GeNeuro and ATARA Bio are commercially driven but would again seem to confirm the above line of thinking. Companies try to find “access points” in the complex cascade, for medication to halt the disease and, to create new shareholder value:
https://www.geneuro.com/data/documents/ ... y-2017.pdf
http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/ ... e_2017.pdf
Or raise profit as here turning one mab into the other: http://www.wheelchairkamikaze.com/2017/ ... l?spref=fb

This is all fine by me, in the end that is how our system works. And for as long as shareholder value is aligned with patient value, there would be no problem. But they are not necessarily. Patients may be better served by the therapeutic options under the first link above, by taking early control of the disease over causal factors (anti-viral, even CCSVI liberation) or by taking control more vigorously and aggressively (chemo/HSCT) rather than control at a later stage by prolongued expensive medication with all its harmful side effects.

I think we have arrived at a point where a major conference should be called. From there, a new dynamic can grow to raise the game. I know it works like that because I have seen it happen several times before (albeit in a completely different area) and was even directly involved in the organization. It could be done again, by academics, policy makers, MS societies. I call on them to get going.
Last edited by Leonard on Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:20 am, edited 22 times in total.
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Re: A new concept and treatment options for MS

Postby jackblack400 » Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:40 am

Leonard wrote:
Jack,

I don't know when GNbAC1 will become available. I picked up the link recently from a Dutch patient forum.

On the ATP supplementation, my physiotherapist suggested exactly the same. Apparently no need for intravenous administration. He used to take it when he was young and as a sportsman ran long distances. I am awaiting further advice.



ATP is destroyed in the gut - it is useless taken orally: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22510240

This is why it has not gained more prominence as a supplement; people have been taking useless placebo pills. ATP must be supplemented intravenously or intramuscularly. If done so, it may be a game changer.

Thanks for the link to the ATARA presentation. Looks well financed and managed.
Incidently, you see NasoPharyngeal Carcinoma (NPC) and Multiple Sclerosis (MS) mentioned in the same breadth. My grandfarther died from an NPC, I have MS. From my earlier postings, it is clear the two are related and how.
This article is also quite revealing: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK6235/
quote: EBV is considered a major cause of lymphomas. The putative involvement of the HERV protein in EBV-related growth stimulation of B cells raises the possibility that immunization against the HERV protein, or prevention of its expression via transduction of anti-sense constructs, might inhibit EBV lymphomagenesis. This would be a logical consequence of the results of Sutkowski et al194 There are many reasons to clarify this issue (see below). unquote
Cancer and MS: two sides to the same coin. Interesting, isn't it?

Reg,


EBV has been linked to a whole host of nasties, including, you are right, cancer. But I'm not sure that means we can say MS and cancer are two sides to the same coin. I will read that evolutionary aspects of HERV and disease article, looks very interesting.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2039853/ has a bunch of references to IV ATP supplementation in late stage cancer patients.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10675381 is one:

Randomized clinical trial of adenosine 5'-triphosphate in patients with advanced non-small-cell lung cancer.

This randomized trial demonstrates that ATP has beneficial effects on weight, muscle strength, and QOL in patients with advanced NSCLC.
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The failure of the system

Postby Leonard » Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:31 am

https://globalfreedommovement.org/the-f ... er-review/

I quote from the Failure of Peer Review:
Most "experts" in medicine are, psychologically speaking, simply engaged in well-paid group thinking and confirmation bias exercises, vigorously affirming and defending their ego's construction of the world ...
Once the public has accepted the scientific establishment's truths, narratives, and designated "experts" then researchers whose research yields results deviating from the accepted norm can be immediately branded as crackpots, lunatics, fringe tools, pseudo-scientists and so on, ... unquote

We must think and should learn to think out of the box, look at other possibilities that leave the traditional medical establishment aside. Because they have constructed a scenario of what might happen (read demyelination and so on...). And the larger the group, the more difficult it is to disconnect oneself from the existing ideas and conclusions. In a sense, it works just like in religions, you automatically assume that all those people around you can not be all wrong.

But they can and they do. All the time.

My vision is here: general-discussion-f1/topic15188-825.html#p248331

MS is not primarily a demyelinating disease, but a failure of mitochondria to produce sufficient ATP for, on the one hand, the ion pump (neuro deficiency) and, on the other hand, the muscles (spasticity). Where at some point the mechanisms become convolved.

The real problem is not MS's etiology and pathogenesis, which are well known. The real problem is the systemic failure of medicine. The challenge is to make a change ...
Last edited by Leonard on Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A new concept and treatment options for MS

Postby frodo » Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:20 pm

Leonard wrote:The causes and very mechanisms underlying MS are set out in the Skeleton and synopsis under the links:

...



Hi Leonard. I have copied your post to the subforum of "etiology and pathology". I think that anyone looking for information about the causes of MS should read it. I hope you don't mind.

I have put it here: ms-etiology-and-pathogenesis-f59/topic29314.html

If you do not like it just tell me and I will remove it.

Thanks for your posts.
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Re: A new concept and treatment options for MS

Postby Leonard » Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:15 am

Hi frodo: you'r welcome to use it as you wish and as you see fit...

@everyone reading here: please spread the message as wide and as far as you possibly can.
Use other fora such as Facebook patient groups to get the message across.
And if you have any contacts there, send it to the press as we will need an actively engaged and critical press to open the discussion.
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