A new concept and treatment options for MS

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Re: A new concept and treatment options for MS

Postby Leonard » Wed May 16, 2018 12:37 am

Scott1 wrote:
...
The tightness you have is collateral damage from MS but it doesn’t have to be permanent.
...


Thank you Scott for all your comments and the patience with me on the physiotherapeutical aspects and needs.

The one thing that intrigues me is your above comment.
You seem to see the tightness and with that in some way the progression of disability as collateral damage from MS.

Is this because you see the problem of how -over time- the EBV takes the genome and EBV B cell cross reaction as collateral to the MS process with the Zoster viral cause in the CNS and spinal as primary? With the latter detoriorating the neuroconduction in the head/spinal and the former weakening muscles strength and local muscle control? I could probably agree to such view.

Regards,

Leo
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Re: A new concept and treatment options for MS

Postby Leonard » Wed May 16, 2018 1:47 am

The oxidative stress cycle could be more involved and complicated than just superoxide from EBV B cells as this article shows:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17191137

To place this in context: this is Ref 12 in Pall's publication on how can we cure the NO/ONOO cycle: http://nunm.edu/images/CE/cureabst.pdf

Where the mechanism described by Foxton et al would be more a problem in the CNS than in muscles.
While in our case, in the muscles it would be more of an EBV problem.

Any views welcome.
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Re: A new concept and treatment options for MS

Postby Scott1 » Wed May 16, 2018 4:15 am

Hi Leo,

I'm not bold enough to say that's the definitive answer. In the link to Martin Palls article, the chart on page 2 has a box that points to iNOS. In his book that same box is full of cytokines (interferons, interleukins etc) which would be products of your explanation. So it would fit.

I do see tightness as collateral damage. I see demyelination in much the same way. Whether its permanent depends on what you do about the inflammatory cycle and how long it has persisted.

The first question should always be "what is supposed to be happening?" and I don't feel that gets asked very often. Nearly every pathway is ATP dependent.

Regards,
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Re: A new concept and treatment options for MS

Postby Leonard » Mon May 21, 2018 5:02 am

Let’s draw this short D-tour on influences and superoxide generation to a conclusion.

The daily live of MS patients is affected by many influences including temperature; air pressure; oxygenation; supply of crude fuel. So there is not one, there are many. All will in some way have an effect on ATP production.

I think the generation of superoxide in MS patients is mainly caused by EBV B cells. After 60 years of age, when the production of B cells wanes, half of MS patients stabilize. The BG4 cycle may add to the superoxide production, but I guess that may be more for Alzheimer's and Parkinson's disease.

The thing that I fail to understand is why this vast neurological world with over 10,000 participants attending ECTRIMS/ACTRIMS has been so obsessed with demyelination and - after all these years - has not thought about the possibility of a failing ATP generation as the root cause for MS. And what to do about that.
Last edited by Leonard on Thu May 24, 2018 6:05 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: A new concept and treatment options for MS

Postby Leonard » Mon May 21, 2018 5:44 am

If you have the right physiotherapist who is used to treat MS patients, he can make you walk again. A significant part of MS progression is caused by muscle rigidity. Many years of neurodeficiency may have caused muscular stiffness and rigidity.

When the agonist gets tightened, the antagonist on the other side has to relax. Now if the signals to relax falter or are too slow, or because of cross talk due to demyelination, over a period of many years a situation will develop where muscles and/or antagonists get exhausted and/or stiff and get locked up. This may be aggravated by local neuromuscular deficiency caused by EBV B cells and oxidative stress.

I recently had the experience that after untightening my muscles, I found the nerve path is still there and that in fact I still have full control over my muscles. While I got completely dependent on a cane for the last 2 - 3 years, I could walk again as a normal person without a cane, for several hundred meters.
Last edited by Leonard on Thu May 24, 2018 6:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A new concept and treatment options for MS

Postby Scott1 » Thu May 24, 2018 5:43 am

Hi Leo,
This recently published article fits with your recent discussion - https://scienmag.com/leg-exercise-is-cr ... em-health/

Regards.
Last edited by Scott1 on Thu May 24, 2018 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A new concept and treatment options for MS

Postby Zyklon » Thu May 24, 2018 7:23 am

GYM and resistance/strength training plays a major role for my health. I don't care about what my docs say about heavy training. It makes me feel good...
Pain! You made me a, you made me a believer, believer
Pain! You break me down, you build me up, believer, believer
Pain! Oh let the bullets fly, oh let them rain
My life, my love, my drive, it came from... Pain!
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