STEROIDS, PAIN MED.'S----LEAKY GUT

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STEROIDS, PAIN MED.'S----LEAKY GUT

Postby blossom » Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:05 am

insult to injury. makes it even tougher to survive this demon. watch your diet, trying to do whatever you can. dr. oz had a girl on that did the paleo diet and her symptoms went away. "leaky gut" is not a good thing. can cause a lot of bad trickle down things.

i've avoided steroids and other med.s but what is thought to be over the counter more innocent drugs - they are in their house of pain and shame too. kinda again damned if you do damned if you don't. bet most if not all neuro.'s are not aware or care about leaky gut.

www.leakygut.co.uk/Pharmaceutical%20Drugs.htm
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Re: STEROIDS, PAIN MED.'S----LEAKY GUT

Postby jimmylegs » Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:46 am

loads of research on nutrition and leaky gut (aka intestinal permeability or impermeability in science-speak, and more generally membrane im/permeability etc.)

zinc is required for diverse genetic, immune and structural functions in the body. membrane integrity is one of the structural roles. in zinc deficiency tight junctions between membrane cell walls (epithelial cells) weaken, and when that membrane is the intestinal lining, voila, leaky gut. followed by the transfer of GI material between cells into blood, rather than properly through cells, immune system shouts INCOMING, and hello inflammation.

I used to have all the symptoms associated with leaky gut. discovered and corrected zinc deficiency. problem solved. whew!
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: STEROIDS, PAIN MED.'S----LEAKY GUT

Postby ljelome » Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:06 pm

Could u tell me more about Leaky Gut Syndrome? Or do u have any article about it so i could read?
I just found out that i have a H. Pylori infection. Could it be related to leaky gut?
What symptoms would u develop if u have a leaky gut?
Thank u for your explanation.

Regards,
Linda
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Re: STEROIDS, PAIN MED.'S----LEAKY GUT

Postby jimmylegs » Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:33 pm

hi linda yes leaky gut and h pylori would be related. some symptoms could include bloating, discomfort, esp when you eat certain foods.

here's an good post on leaky gut, lists a bunch of causes and has links out to other leaky gut articles, also related posts on intestinal permeability research

natural-approach-f27/topic18558-30.html#p154131

and one more

post197279.html?hilit=pylori#p197279
zinc nutrition is key for GI health. fyi:

Zinc supplementation tightens “Leaky Gut” in Crohn's disease
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 00003/full

Low concentrations of zinc in gastric mucosa are associated with increased severity of Helicobacter pylori-induced inflammation.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17241300
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: STEROIDS, PAIN MED.'S----LEAKY GUT

Postby ljelome » Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:37 pm

Dear jimmylegs,

Thank u for ur information... from what i've read, a tip to get rid of H.Pylori infection is by sleeping at night with an empty stomach. So, we should eat dinner at least couple hours before bedtime (i don't remember how many hours, i should find the book first).

I've already had stomach problem long before my MS diagnosis. I thought it was just a usual stomach problem because i eat too late, never thought of any infection going on inside my stomach. I do have a lot of upper respiratory tract infections since my teen (before MS). I had positive for Rubella IgG and HSV 1 IgM in Feb 2010. Now, i have H. Pylory infection.

Could all that history of infections be my "MS" cause? (I do have positive for ANA too)

Regards,
Linda
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Re: STEROIDS, PAIN MED.'S----LEAKY GUT

Postby jimmylegs » Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:52 am

perhaps a piece of the puzzle, yes. I certainly don't have to deal with any infections these days, the way I did before diagnosis. makes a nice change.


i had high hopes for this article but the 'controls' are not healthy.
Serum Ferritin, Vitamin B12, Folate, and Zinc Levels in Children
Infected with Helicobacter pylori
http://www.ysonut.fr/pdf/Ysodoc/D050703.pdf

H. pylori positive zinc avg = 95±48 μg/dL
H. pylori negative zinc avg = 87±31 μg/dL

so basically the conclusion is everyone's sick with something, everyone has low-normal zinc, in some their infection happens to be h.pylori....

'low normal' can equal deficiency:

study indicates individuals with 'normal' zinc may still have I
A case of acquired zinc deficiency
http://dermatology.cdlib.org/1805/01_cs ... ticle.html
"Serum zinc levels were within normal limits 88 µg/dL... the patient began supplementation with zinc sulfate 220 mg/day with near resolution of his hand dermatitis in just 6 days... rapid improvement of the patient’s skin after only zinc supplementation suggested zinc deficiency to be the cause"

i'm hunting for the study I have here somewhere, in which the average zinc level in healthy kids was more like 133 ug/dL.
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: STEROIDS, PAIN MED.'S----LEAKY GUT

Postby jimmylegs » Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:04 am

found it. zinc levels in healthy controls avg'd 135

Increased serum copper and decreased serum zinc levels in children with iron deficiency anemia
http://www.springerlink.com/content/221564100305088g/
Serum zinc levels ... of control subjects (135 ± 56 Μg/dL) (p = 0.017).
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: STEROIDS, PAIN MED.'S----LEAKY GUT

Postby CharlesWJames » Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:10 am

Hi everyone,

This is my 1st post on this forum. I wanted to post in this thread first because leaky gut is a topic of high importance to me - it has caused me a LOT of troubles for many many years.

Like JimmyLegs I do not take any medicine. Whole foods and natural supplements are what you need to treat this condition - medicines will only make it worse.

jimmylegs wrote:zinc is required for diverse genetic, immune and structural functions in the body. membrane integrity is one of the structural roles. in zinc deficiency tight junctions between membrane cell walls (epithelial cells) weaken, and when that membrane is the intestinal lining, voila, leaky gut. followed by the transfer of GI material between cells into blood, rather than properly through cells, immune system shouts INCOMING, and hello inflammation.

I used to have all the symptoms associated with leaky gut. discovered and corrected zinc deficiency. problem solved. whew!


Glad you managed to solve your problem with only zinc. Unfortunately, it's not the solution for everyone though. Don't take me wrong, zinc is absolutely essential, I would even say critical, but some people cannot absorb it, even with heavy supplementation. For example people who have low stomach acid levels cannot absorb it (this condition is very common and most of the time it remains unnoticed by those who suffer from it).

So for those who have low stomach acid levels (there are easy tests to know this), it is very important to supplement with HCL and zinc at the same time.

@JimmyLegs, how much time did you supplement with zinc to get rid of your leaky gut? And what was your daily dosage?

It is normally taken in around 150 mg doses and can help to heal leaky gut in as little as eight weeks. However, it is best to not take more than 100mg of zinc per day for a long period of time because it will reduce the absorption of copper and iron.

Also, it's important to know that all zinc supplements are not created equal. Some zinc supplements are a total waste of money.



ljelome wrote:Could u tell me more about Leaky Gut Syndrome? Or do u have any article about it so i could read?


Hi Linda,

JimmyLeg gave some nice information but with so many links (there are other links to follow in the posts he mentioned) it's all over the place.

I don't know what's the policy on this forum concerning links, I know that I'm a junior member here but I believe my article can give you all the information you need, and it's written in plain english, very easy to understand:

http://nutritiongang.com/leaky-gut-syndrome/

Note to moderators: if this is not appropriate, please remove the link but keep the remaining information - thank you.


I said above that zinc cannot be absorbed when there is not enough acid in the stomach. I believe that EVERYONE should test himself to know if he lacks acid or not. Having low stomach acid levels is extremely dangerous and opens the door to a LOT of diseases.

For example you mentioned that you had H. Pylori, it is a CLEAR SIGN that you suffer from low stomach acid levels. The stomach is the first line of defense of your digestive system - if it is broken because of a lack of acid, all the remaining parts of the digestion will break. This is one of the leading causes of leaky gut (zinc deficiency is caused by a lack of acid).

I'm sorry if I have to mention another link from my site, but it is very important:

http://nutritiongang.com/low-stomach-ac ... lorhydria/

In that page above, everything you need to know about low stomach acid is explained. You will learn how to test it and how to fix it.

Hope this helps.

Charles W. James
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Re: STEROIDS, PAIN MED.'S----LEAKY GUT

Postby jimmylegs » Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:07 am

welcome cwj. disagree re supplementing HCl except as a temp band-aid approach.. personally i'd be looking for causes of low stomach acid (dehydration for example) and working to remedy that, esp for a long term solution. no pun intended ;)

when I originally tested zinc deficient, I took zinc @ 100mg per day on the doc's advice, but instead of for one month, I took it more sporadically a couple days on a day off etc for about three months and my levels then tested what I thought at the time were a bit on the high side (either approaching or just over 20 umol/l). since then 50mg/d (still kind of sporadic though) always carefully balanced with copper to preclude depletion. couldn't say how long it took I just noticed that my levels corrected quickly and the discomfort I had had with certain foods resolved.

as for low stomach acid, at one time I did buy some sort of enzyme product etc to help with absorption, but again considered it a band-aid.. separately, I knew I had a long term tendency to dehydration and low bp. my docs finally flagged the link between these two issues for me during an annual checkup a few yrs back. made an effort to hydrate and now have normal BP. must have helped with a bunch of different things including stomach acid and related absorption of nutrients. I think it was some time later that I read about dehydration being a cause of low stomach acid. staying hydrated remains a challenge for me I am just not good at it b/c I am an outdoor worker and it's very inconvenient to have to pee all the time!
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: STEROIDS, PAIN MED.'S----LEAKY GUT

Postby cheerleader » Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:34 am

Another piece of the leaky gut puzzle is the protein zonulin.
Zonulin is increased in our blood when we eat foods that contain glutens--Dr. Fasano at the University of Maryland is at the forefront of this research.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22902773

Zonulin works as a gatekeeper of the endothelium in the intestine and also in the blood brain barrier. The more zonulin you have in your blood, the more permeable the tight junctions of your blood vessels become. Not a good thing, if we want to maintain a healthy lining in our guts, and blood brain barrier. And this is one reason why the gut and brain are linked---the gut is often the first sign of endothelial dysfunction, the brain is another.

Probiotics are one supplement that can address excess zonulin--and help heal the endothelium.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22992437
and avoiding excess gluten is another helper, as is zinc. Lots of new research on how to heal leaky gut.
Hope this helps! For more on endothelial dysfunction: http://www.ccsvi.org/index.php/helping- ... ial-health
cheer
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dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
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Re: STEROIDS, PAIN MED.'S----LEAKY GUT

Postby jimmylegs » Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:28 pm

yes. eating gluten impairs zinc status, not sure what else it messes with. gluten free diet allows zinc levels to increase. I look forward to research that examines interactions between gluten intake, nutrient status, and zonulin upregulation!
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: STEROIDS, PAIN MED.'S----LEAKY GUT

Postby lyndacarol » Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:10 pm

Cheer, JL, Charles, et al. – Check out the L-glutamine/gut connection.
My hypothesis: excess insulin (hyperinsulinemia) plays a major role in MS, as developed in my initial post: http://www.thisisms.com/forum/general-discussion-f1/topic1878.html "Insulin – Could This Be the Key?"
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Re: STEROIDS, PAIN MED.'S----LEAKY GUT

Postby jimmylegs » Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:21 pm

Glutamine: an essential amino acid for the gut
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8974125
"Glutamine is a non-essential amino acid which is produced in sufficient amount by the healthy human body... During several conditions a lack of glutamine may occur. This will result in functional disturbances of the immune system and/or the gut. Glutamine is produced mainly by the muscle tissue. A decrease in muscle mass during nutritional depletion may result in decreased glutamine production capacity. Furthermore during critical illness, there is an increased demand for glutamine probably as a result of an increased utilization by the immune system. ... A lack of glutamine may result in deterioration of this intestinal barrier. Supplementation of glutamine to certain patients could be essential.."

OR you figure out what the healthy body uses to produce its own glutamine. Wikipedia:

"Glutamine synthetase (GS) (EC 6.3.1.2)[3] is an enzyme that plays an essential role in the metabolism of nitrogen by catalyzing the condensation of glutamate and ammonia to form glutamine: Glutamate + ATP + NH3 → Glutamine + ADP + phosphate"

ATP means magnesium is in the picture.. we know that's low in ms patients..

http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_ ... 6&page=394
"Manganese metalloenzymes include arginase, glutamine synthetase, phosphoenolpyruvate decarboxylase, and manganese superoxide dismutase.."

I don't know exactly why BUT STILL.. zinc deficiency appears to affect glutamine status also.

Effects of zinc deficiency / zinc supplementation on ammonia metabolism..
http://www.lib.okayama-u.ac.jp/www/acta ... _6_349.pdf
"an increased uptake of ammonia by and an increased release of glutamine from leg skeletal muscle after oral supplementation of zinc sulfate were evident... zinc supplementation might [activate] glutamine synthetase"

Zinc deficiency causes oxidative damage to proteins, lipids and DNA in rat testes
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7722683
"Glutamine synthetase activity in testes of the food-restricted controls was between the values for the ad libitum controls and zinc-deficient animals."

Influence of dietary carbohydrate on zinc-deficiency-induced changes in oxidative defense mechanisms and tissue oxidative damage in rats.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10493186
"Liver glutamine synthetase activity was lower in the -Zn-glucose group and in the fructose groups than in the glucose control group."
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: STEROIDS, PAIN MED.'S----LEAKY GUT

Postby CharlesWJames » Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:40 pm

jimmylegs wrote:welcome cwj. disagree re supplementing HCl except as a temp band-aid approach.. personally i'd be looking for causes of low stomach acid (dehydration for example) and working to remedy that, esp for a long term solution. no pun intended ;)


Hey, I actually totally agree with you :) It's what I recommend all the time, fixing the cause at its root!
In the case of zinc it's a kind of vicious cycle though:

1/ Stomach cannot produce acid when zinc deficient
2/ Zinc cannot be absorbed when stomach acid is low

That's why I mentioned it was important to supplement with HCL + zinc.

At one point of time I was taking 9 HCL pills per meal! Now I'm down to 1 or 2 with high-protein meals.

jimmylegs wrote:staying hydrated remains a challenge for me I am just not good at it b/c I am an outdoor worker and it's very inconvenient to have to pee all the time!


Yeah I understand what you mean :) Have the same problem...


lyndacarol wrote:Cheer, JL, Charles, et al. – Check out the L-glutamine/gut connection.


Recently I read that free glutamates were excitotoxins that have the potential to damage neurons, making glutamine a supplement not recommended for people with a leaky gut. I'm still not sure if the facts are valid or not and I still need to research more about it...

Did anyone hear something about this?
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Re: STEROIDS, PAIN MED.'S----LEAKY GUT

Postby ljelome » Wed May 01, 2013 4:08 am

Dear CharlesWJames,
Thank u for ur information. I read it n found some of the symptoms fit mine for both condition.
I wish to find a physician that can help me with those conditions, for testing n treatment.

Thank u again.
Regards,
Linda
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