all things magnesium

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Re: all things magnesium

Postby Lynn62 » Sat May 10, 2014 10:02 am

Thanks Jimmylegs! I bookmarked the list of magnesium rich foods. I do eat some of them already, but probably not enough. I take 2000iu vitamin d3 at breakfast because I am low in that. When I start supplementing magnesium, do I take it with the vitamin D? I vaguely remember reading one of your posts about vitamin d and magnesium interacting. I also take a multivitamin, 1 teaspoon of Metamucil clear and natural, and 1 low dose aspirin with the vitamin d at breakfast. At dinner I take a probiotic 14 billion. At bedtime I take LDN 3mg.

Dx RRMS 1990
took Avonex for 15 years
Dx SPMS 2013
started LDN 3 mg. 11/2013
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Re: all things magnesium

Postby jimmylegs » Sat May 10, 2014 11:50 am

hi again :) given the vit d3 intake, i'd suggest taking half of any supplemental mag glycinate at the same time as the morning d3, and the other half at some point later in the day (magnesium has plenty to do in the body besides interact with d3, and also can be a nice way to help wind down for sleep).

personally, at this point, if i am going to take mag in the evening it is more likely to be mag citrate than mag glycinate (i keep both kinds handy), and it is ideally taken well before lying down for sleep, and/or prior to supper or some sort of evening snack. the related cautionary tale is here: regimens-f22/topic2489-210.html#p153097

which multivit product are you using, by the way?
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Re: all things magnesium

Postby CarolynDean » Sat May 10, 2014 4:12 pm

I have real concerns about high dose Vit D supplementation (over 1,000iu per day) because it Vit D draws on magnesium for its transformation into the active form. So, people who are already low on magnesium start manifesting mag deficiency symptoms. I have blogged about that and written about it in my Magnesium Miracle 2014 edition. Google Vit D, magnesium and Dr. Carolyn Dean for more details.
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Re: all things magnesium

Postby jimmylegs » Sun May 11, 2014 4:34 am

we share your concern dr dean; a pharmacist spotted my d3-related magnesium deficiency issues in 2008 (while i was asking about something completely unrelated but visibly manifesting symptoms), and i've been sharing the needed advice to members here ever since (plus learning lots more detail along the way).
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Re: all things magnesium

Postby THX1138 » Sun May 11, 2014 9:02 am

I'm wondering if anyone has any information on the prevalence of spasticity in people with ms cross-referenced with dates. I have a hunch that the availability and popularity of high dose "vitamin" D supplements may coincide with higher rates of spasticity :?:
Last edited by THX1138 on Sun May 11, 2014 12:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: all things magnesium

Postby CarolynDean » Sun May 11, 2014 9:19 am

Magnesium deficiency regulates vitamin D metabolizing enzymes and type II sodium-phosphate cotransporter mRNA expression in rats.
Matsuzaki H, Katsumata S, Kajita Y, Miwa M
Department of Nutrition, Junior College of Tokyo University of Agriculture, Tokyo 156-8502, Japan.
Magnesium Research : Official Organ of the International Society for the Development of Research on Magnesium [2013, 26(2):83-86]

Abstract
A magnesium (Mg) deficiency induces changes in calcium (Ca) and phosphorus (P) metabolism; however, the mechanisms responsible for these effects remain unclear. Since 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3 and type II sodium-phosphate (Na/Pi) cotransporters are essential regulators of Ca and P metabolism, this study examined the effects of Mg deficiency on the mRNA expression of vitamin D metabolizing enzymes (25-hydroxyvitamin D-1α-hydroxylase (1α(OH)ase) and 25-hydroxyvitamin D-24-hydroxylase (24(OH)ase)), and Na/Pi cotransporters (type IIa and IIc) in the rat kidney. Rats were divided into two groups and fed a control diet (Mg concentration: 0.05%) or a Mg-deficient diet (Mg concentration: Mg-free) for 21 days. 1α(OH)ase mRNA levels were significantly decreased in rats fed the Mg-deficient diet, while 24(OH)ase mRNA levels were significantly increased, compared to rats fed the control diet. Type IIa and IIc Na/Pi cotransporter mRNA levels in rats fed the Mg-deficient diet were significantly decreased compared to rats fed the control diet. These results suggest that Mg deficiency induces downregulation of 1α(OH)ase and type IIa and IIc Na/Pi cotransporters, and upregulation of 24(OH)ase in the kidney.
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Re: all things magnesium

Postby CarolynDean » Sun May 11, 2014 9:26 am

Magnesium, Vitamin D Status and Mortality: results from US National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey (NHANES) 2001 to 2006 and NHANES III
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1741-7015/11/187
BMC Med. 2013; 11: 187.
Abstract:
Magnesium plays an essential role in the synthesis and metabolism of vitamin D and magnesium supplementation substantially reversed the resistance to vitamin D treatment in patients with magnesium-dependent vitamin-D-resistant rickets. We hypothesized that dietary magnesium alone, particularly its interaction with vitamin D intake, contributes to serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D (25(OH)D) levels, and the associations between serum 25(OH)D and risk of mortality may be modified by magnesium intake level.
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Re: all things magnesium

Postby jimmylegs » Sun May 11, 2014 9:33 am

research has indicated that the general population is low in mag and that ms patients have even lower mag status to begin with, as well as associated spasticity.

of course if you were to add an unbalanced d3 regimen to that particular picture, you'd logically be asking for trouble and you could expect to see a worsening of symptoms related to low mag status (including one or more of the many possible manifestations of spasticity).

as i've said before, for whatever reason i happened to take mag and calcium with my d3 right from day one - but by taking a small amount, of what turned out to be a relatively insoluble inorganic form, and taking it at the same time as the d3, i ended up with some pretty unpleasant deficiency symptoms. followed, as you may recall, by a raft of very unpleasant magnesium side effects over time, while figuring out the best supplementation form, dose and timing.
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Re: all things magnesium

Postby jimmylegs » Sun May 11, 2014 9:39 am

re natural-approach-f27/topic18568-120.html#p225057, interesting.
re natural-approach-f27/topic18568-120.html#p225058, definitely seen that one before (it has come up in discussion elsewhere on the site, ie): chronic-cerebrospinal-venous-insufficiency-ccsvi-f40/topic14805-660.html
dr d you'll probably enjoy (or want to tear your hair out re) the ongoing debate there...
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Re: all things magnesium

Postby CarolynDean » Sun May 11, 2014 9:58 am

Yes, Jimmylegs, it's astounding that doctors learn nothing about the proper application of nutrients. All they have done so far is give high dose calcium resulting in higher heart disease rates in women, as well as DCIS, gall stones and kidney stones and perpetuating magnesium deficiency. Now, their favorite vitamin is synthetic Vit D. I've gotten reports of seizures, 6-week migraines, angina and worse when mag deficient people go on high dose Vit D.
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Re: all things magnesium

Postby jimmylegs » Sun May 11, 2014 10:39 am

yep the calcium piece is annoying for sure. i consider myself extremely fortunate to have had medical professionals around me that will order various nutrient tests at my request, so that i can monitor status over the long term.. in spite of (from their perspective) chronically 'normal' results.
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Re: all things magnesium

Postby Lynn62 » Sun May 11, 2014 11:58 am

Jimmylegs- the multivitamin I take is One A Day Essential (small red caplets I can swallow easier than big horse pills!) Sometimes I buy store brand if I can't find name brand.

JL and Dr. Dean-
My Vitamin D history:
January 2011=23ng/mL Dr. put me on high dose (50,000 I think) for a few days then OTC 1000iu/day
January 2012=40ng/mL
August 2012=47ng/mL
January 2013=48ng/mL upped my dose to 2000iu/day
February 2014=52ng/mL

Are you thinking I should reduce d3 to 1000iu/day?

Dx RRMS 1990
took Avonex for 15 years
Dx SPMS 2013
started LDN 3 mg. 11/2013
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Re: all things magnesium

Postby Lynn62 » Sun May 11, 2014 12:08 pm

THX1138 wrote:I'm wondering if anyone has any information on the prevalence of spasticity in people with ms cross-referenced with dates. I have a hunch that the availability and popularity of high dose "vitamin" D supplements may coincide with higher rates ofspasticity :?:


THX
Interesting...I wonder if my worsening spasticity (for me it's mostly stiff legs) coincided with my vitamin d supplementation? I don't know for sure.

Dx RRMS 1990
took Avonex for 15 years
Dx SPMS 2013
started LDN 3 mg. 11/2013
Lynn62
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Posts: 29
Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2013 5:44 pm

Re: all things magnesium

Postby jimmylegs » Sun May 11, 2014 12:42 pm

hi again lynn :)

re the multi, i was going to say it's probably marginally better than nothing. but looking at product details, maybe not really :S

one a day: http://labeling.bayercare.com/omr/onlin ... ential.pdf
i particularly dislike their form of vit E.

this is the one i take, for comparison: http://www.aor.ca/wp-content/uploads/20 ... sics-3.pdf

as for your d3 history. i'd say you definitely need to take a long hard look at your mag status! you'd probably be just fine on 1000 IU of d3 per day while you assess your dietary mag intake and any complementary supplemental requirements.

re timing of d3 megadosing and spasticity, there are many variables to consider lynn, and although i personally had mag depletion issues prior to vit d3 supplementation, i definitely had an array of mag related issues worsen and develop after!
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Re: all things magnesium

Postby THX1138 » Sun May 11, 2014 12:43 pm

THX
Interesting...I wonder if my worsening spasticity (for me it's mostly stiff legs) coincided with my vitamin d supplementation? I don't know for sure.

My spacticity sure increased while I was taking "vitamin" D, but it was so gradual and I had heard such great things about vitamin D that I never suspected it until the spasticity had become rather bad. One of the things that got me to consider that the D was causing magnesium problems was an old post by jimmylegs that said that "d3 is a mag hog".
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