summary of daily intake

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summary of daily intake

Postby zen2010 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:40 am

Hello,

I'd like to summarize, after searching on this forum (what I beleive to be)the most important daily intake needed for a MSer.
Can you pls confirm whether I'm correct?
Did I miss something?

-D3 Vit: UI 4000
-B12 (methylcobalamin): 1000 µg
-Zinc (picolinate or other):50 mg
-Magnesium (Glycinate): 300 mg
-Calcium: 1200 mg

There is an interaction between:
-D3 and Magnesium: solution is to take them at different time
-D3 and Zinc?

Thks
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Re: summary of daily intake

Postby NHE » Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:01 am

Consider taking D3 with a meal that includes fat. This can increase the absorption by 32%. Since first reading this, I switched to taking my D3 with dinner.


Dietary fat increases vitamin D-3 absorption.
J Acad Nutr Diet. 2015 Feb;115(2):225-30.

    BACKGROUND: The plasma 25-hydroxyvitamin D response to supplementation with vitamin D varies widely, but vitamin D absorption differences based on diet composition is poorly understood.

    OBJECTIVES: We tested the hypotheses that absorption of vitamin D-3 is greater when the supplement is taken with a meal containing fat than with a fat-free meal and that absorption is greater when the fat in the meal has a higher monounsaturated-to-polyunsaturated fatty acid ratio (MUFA:PUFA).

    DESIGN: Open, three-group, single-dose vitamin D-3 comparative absorption experiment.

    PARTICIPANTS/SETTING: Our 1-day study was conducted in 50 healthy older men and women who were randomly assigned to one of three meal groups: fat-free meal, and a meal with 30% of calories as fat with a low (1:4) and one with a high (4:1) MUFA:PUFA. After a 12-hour fast, all subjects took a single 50,000 IU vitamin D-3 supplement with their test breakfast meal.

    MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: Plasma vitamin D-3 was measured by liquid chromatography-mass spectrometry before and 10, 12 (the expected peak), and 14 hours after the dose.

    STATISTICAL ANALYSES PERFORMED: Means were compared with two-tailed t tests for independent samples. Group differences in vitamin D-3 absorption across the measurement time points were examined by analysis of variance with the repeated measures subcommand of the general linear models procedure.

    RESULTS: The mean peak (12-hour) plasma vitamin D-3 level after the dose was 32% (95% CI 11% to 52%) greater in subjects consuming fat-containing compared with fat-free meals (P=0.003). Absorption did not differ significantly at any time point in the high and low MUFA and PUFA groups.

    CONCLUSIONS: The presence of fat in a meal with which a vitamin D-3 supplement is taken significantly enhances absorption of the supplement, but the MUFA:PUFA of the fat in that meal does not influence its absorption.




You may also want to consider adding R-Lipoic Acid to your supplement regimen.

Lipoic acid outperforms Ocrevus (Ocrelizumab)
general-discussion-f1/topic29429.html#p249668
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Re: summary of daily intake

Postby ElliotB » Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:44 am

There are so many additional supplements that can be taken for good/improved health that you do not include in your list, many of which I would consider essential especially for those with MS. For someone looking for the best possible results, many others should be considered and taken (IMHO).
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Re: summary of daily intake

Postby jimmylegs » Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:13 pm

hey there :)

re
-D3 Vit: UI 4000
-B12 (methylcobalamin): 1000 µg
-Zinc (picolinate or other):50 mg
-Magnesium (Glycinate): 300 mg
-Calcium: 1200 mg

There is an interaction between:
-D3 and Magnesium: solution is to take them at different time
-D3 and Zinc?

consider a high quality multivit/min to help address interactions and trace cofactors present in whole foods but absent in isolated single supplements.

consider b complex rather than b12 in isolation, but take care not to exceed 100mg of B6 per day.

d3 at 4000 IU per day has been shown to be safe over a period of months but i ran into trouble with it after a couple of years at that dosage daily.
the trouble was its impact on mag. i had poor mag status anyway and the daily supplement was low dose and low quality (i know you're past that hurdle now)
take half of daily mag *with* d3, and half at a diff time. if you are only set up to take mag once a day, then take it with the d3 one day, and away from the d3 the next day.
monitor your serum mag status while on 4000 IU per day of d3. keep it well above 0.95 mmol/L.

zinc interacts with iron and copper. choose a zinc supplement that combines zinc with copper approximately in the ratio 50:2 ie 50 mg zinc to 2 mg copper. re interactions w iron, monitor serum ferritin if supplementing zinc over the long term.

i could not personally handle that much calcium. calcium is not on my radar as a problem nutrient for pwms.

when googling the fact that my back hurts when i take recommended calcium doses, i find:

https://health.clevelandclinic.org/2014 ... -can-hurt/
1. Calcium
Why it matters: Calcium plays a critical role in building and maintaining healthy bones. For decades, experts have recommended high-dose calcium supplements to prevent osteoporosis. The bone-thinning disease is responsible for fractures that cause many elderly men and women to lose their independence — and sometimes their lives.

How too much can hurt: “More and more studies are showing increased risks for heart attack and stroke among men and women taking calcium 1,000 to 1,200 milligrams (mg) per day as directed,” says Dr. Young.

Researchers believe that without adequate vitamin D to help absorb it, the extra calcium settles in the arteries instead of the bones. There, it helps form plaques that threaten the heart and brain. Excess calcium can also cause muscle pain, mood disorders, abdominal pain and kidney stones.

What to do about it: “We recommend trying to get your calcium from food,” says Dr. Young. “The body absorbs and utilizes calcium better from food than from supplements.”

Probably the best source of dietary calcium is fat-free organic Greek yogurt. It gives you 450 mm of calcium per serving, plus vitamin D and protein, and two servings fulfill your calcium needs for a full day. Other sources of calcium include:

Leafy green veggies like spinach and kale
Legumes and beans
Sardines
Fortified foods, like soy and almond milk, orange juice, and
Salmon with soft bones
Sesame seed

so kidney stones. that was definitely the impression i had re the calcium backache. struggling kidneys.

re dietary. gawd i can't deal with bone in salmon or sardines. loves me some plain yog though, and legumes and kale are on today's menu too!

re d3 and zinc, more research is starting to come through. there are established interactions suggesting zinc is needed for 1,25(OH)2vitD3, bc receptors, zinc fingers, yadda yadda. but there may be more to it. for sure, my dose response to vit d3 megadosing more than tripled after concerted effort to improve overall nutritional status, with emphasis on mag and zinc. before that work, megadose d3 took me from 70 to 150 nmol/L. after the mag and zinc work, smaller megadose took me from 103 to 271 nmol/L (i was still only aiming for 150 nmol/L though...).
no specific info comes to mind re how best to time zinc and d3 intake but if it's like mag at all, best to alternate taking zinc with d3, and away.

all this of course is assuming proper attention to daily recommended intakes, from healthy food sources, of all other essentials :)

one thing we never really talk about but could likely stand to, is vit E. have a squint at that in your diet. it was quite the gap for me, due to my interpretation of veganism. it's huge in the klenner protocol for ms, which did me a huge amount of good in only three days. mind you, it's an old protocol and it recommends a less than ideal form reflecting the state of vit E research in the 70s.
eg
MASSIVE DOSAGE OF ALPHA-TOCOPHEROL IN ALLEVIATION OF MULTIPLE SCLEROSIS (1949)
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 308.x/full

still, klenner protocol did me a lot of good even using crappy synthetic alpha tocopherol. nowadays of course i would only go for a natural source E8 complex. and not in megadose amounts. and sunflower seeds come before supplements.

the klenner protocol also emphasizes dietary protein, which had been a major dietary deficit for years.
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!
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Re: summary of daily intake

Postby zen2010 » Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:13 am

Dear all,
Thks very much for your feedback.


Got it!

After searching on the net: I didn’t find multivit including D3, R-Lipoic acid, Methylcobalamin B12, Zinc, VitC, VitE, Magnesium (citrate or glycinate) and B3 Niacin (very important for energy levels).

I guess I will have to keep taking some stuff in isolation…

Is there any product you would suggest (from Solgar if possible)?
Thks again
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Re: summary of daily intake

Postby jimmylegs » Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:44 am

np :) of the b vits, niacin would likely be toughest to find in a b-complex (i've managed it inadvertently but don't remember the brand)

i use AOR multi basics for the all around product, then top up using other quality individual items. no R-LA in my regimen other than what comes to me in diet:

http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/mic/dietary- ... id#sources
Food sources
R-LA occurs naturally in foods covalently bound to lysine in proteins (lipoyllysine). Although LA is found in a wide variety of foods from plant and animal sources, quantitative information on the LA or lipoyllysine content of food is limited and published databases are lacking. Animal tissues that are rich in lipoyllysine (~1-3 μg/g dry wt) include kidney, heart, and liver, while vegetables that are rich in lipoyllysine include spinach and broccoli (90). Somewhat lower amounts of lipoyllysine (~0.5 μg/g dry wt) have been measured in tomatoes, peas, and Brussels sprouts.

i actually made a point of using heart for the first time recently. instantly was converted to ground :S now working thru a little stack of frozen 'heartburgers' :S yikes lol!
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!
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Re: summary of daily intake

Postby Zyklon » Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:20 am

zen2010 wrote:Hello,

I'd like to summarize, after searching on this forum (what I beleive to be)the most important daily intake needed for a MSer.
Can you pls confirm whether I'm correct?
Did I miss something?

-D3 Vit: UI 4000
-B12 (methylcobalamin): 1000 µg
-Zinc (picolinate or other):50 mg
-Magnesium (Glycinate): 300 mg
-Calcium: 1200 mg

There is an interaction between:
-D3 and Magnesium: solution is to take them at different time
-D3 and Zinc?

Thks


Hello,

4000 IU D3 and 1200 mg calcium together can make you hypercalcemic (high calcium). Please get tested for calcium regularly.

Your D3 and magnesium are low (I read other thread). It will take some time so daily 4000-5000 IU D3 is fine. You may increase magnesium to daily 400-500 mg. If you are physically active, 600 mg daily will not be a problem. Zinc supplement will lower your serum iron. So please get tested for iron and monitor it.

A multivitamin is good idea as a complement. For major things such as D3 or magnesium, you need to take them separately.

Not everybody is same. Body weight, physical activity, diet, gender, age, location. You need to monitor your supplements. I think everybody will agree 50+ ng/mL D3, 500+ pg/mL B12, 2+ mg/dL magnesium, 100+ µg/dL zinc, copper and iron, 10- mg/dL calcium is good.

Take care ;)
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Pain! You break me down, you build me up, believer, believer
Pain! Oh let the bullets fly, oh let them rain
My life, my love, my drive, it came from... Pain!
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Re: summary of daily intake

Postby jimmylegs » Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:26 am

I think everybody will agree 50+ ng/mL D3, 500+ pg/mL B12, 2+ mg/dL magnesium, 100+ µg/dL zinc, copper and iron, 10- mg/dL calcium is good.


50+ ng/mL D3
>sure provided everything else is also in line

500+ pg/mL B12
>yes

2+ mg/dL magnesium
>strongly disagree - minimum 2.3 (assuming no atypical magnesium handling issues)

100+ µg/dL zinc, copper and iron,

>sort of.
~120 zn
~110 cu
~80-100 ferritin

10- mg/dL calcium is good
>hmm. hypercalcemia = 10.5 mg/dl or higher;
still working on optimal serum mag:ca ratio.
10 could be high esp with serum mg at only 2 mg/dL.
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!
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Re: summary of daily intake

Postby zen2010 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:10 am

Hello,

I already took actions here (general-discussion-f1/topic29885.html)


jimmylegs wrote:~80-100 ferritin


I didn't focus on ferritin ->Is it so important?

Thks
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Re: summary of daily intake

Postby jimmylegs » Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:51 am

it depends. iron status (as distinct from iron dysregulation) is not a big red flag for ms patients in general but for those addressing known low zinc, it's something to watch - similar to copper. if zinc supplementation is in the picture, especially over the longer term, you want to monitor serum ferritin and address any deficit that may emerge over time. in general where zinc and iron are concerned in ms i tend to think that addressing suboptimal zinc will help regulate iron BUT that is on the speculative side.

it can't hurt to understand serum ferritin levels prior to work on zinc. i asked z to investigate and in his case serum ferritin was worth looking into, but for unexpected reasons. all documented in z's 'hello' topic.

in the longer term once levels for any essential are topped up it's best to return to the high end of existing public health recommendations for daily intakes, with the emphasis being healthy whole food sources first.
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!
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