My Regimen (ridiculous?)

Tell us what you are using to treat your MS-- and how you are doing.

My Regimen (ridiculous?)

Postby Kronk » Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:58 pm

Hi All,

Very excited to have found this forum as I am very interested in intelligent discussion around the possible causes and treatments of this disease. Sorry to write a book for my first post...

I have been investigating the theory that MS symptoms, at least in part, are due to an imbalance in immune modulating hormones and have put it to practice in my own life. There is much anecdotal evidence that low Saturated Fat diets help with the progression of the disease but many people still suffer even when on the most restrictive diets. Many others state that LDN helps, and others state it does not. I don't think these are mutually exclusive.

Several studies have concluded that the plasma of people with MS has too much saturated fat. Saturated fat is critically important in cell production making up to 50% of the cell membrane and giving it rigidity. The cell membrane is selectively permeable, determined by the ratio of saturated to unsaturated fatty acids. Additional unsaturated fats increase the fluidity and therefore the permeability of the cell. Whereas additional saturated fats increase the rigidity of the cell. Too much saturated fats and the cell would be effectively sealed off, limiting the binding of cells to interact with or produce immune modulating hormones. To counter this I live with a low saturated fat diet, striving for less than 15g a day and avoiding most inflammatory foods. I also supplement anti-inflammatory supplements.

Testosterone and Serotonin are also linked with immune modulation. In fact scientists believe that the reason young women are more likely to get MS than young men is due to the protective effects of testosterone. Lupus, rheumatoid arthritis, and other auto-immune diseases are less common among young men. Men who get MS tend to get it later in life, typically after 30, when testosterone production starts to drop. Many MS suffers state that stressful events trigger relapses. It has been proven that stress lowers plasma testosterone levels two-fold. A study was done that tested the hormone levels in MS sufferers and compared with a control group. The results showed that all women with MS had lower testosterone concentrations than normal subjects. A significantly greater number of Gd enhancing lesions was found in the seven women with abnormally low testosterone levels compared with those with normal testosterone. Women suffer more lesions than men, however men’s lesions have more destructive capability. One issue with simply supplementing testosterone is the rise in oestradiol (estrogen byproduct of testosterone) which has a direct link to increased lesion activity in men. I am starting to supplement a testosterone booster while also taking Diindolylmethane or DIM which binds to estrogen receptors essentially blocking there effects. I may also look into an ant-aromatase product to help reverse the estrogen as well.

I am attempting to live a very regimented life which is difficult with 2 young boys and a job with a significant amount of travel. I currently take LDN at 4.5mg per day; have modified my diet to reduce saturated fats to less than 15g per day; implemented a rigorous weight training routine 5 days a week coupled with a high protein diet to increase natural Endorphin production; and supplement with the following daily … I have a reasoning for all of them, just ask, and yes the health food stores LOVE me...

4.5mg - LDN
20mg - Copaxone
240mg - Psorex (mono-ethyl fumerate)
1200mg - Vitamin B12
1500- 2000mg - Malic Acid
600mg - Alpha Lipoic Acid
20mg - Bioperine
1000- 1500mg - Acetyl L-Cartinine
4000mg - Turmeric Powder
3000mg - Creatine
6000IU - Vitamin D
200mg - Magnesium
1000mg - Flax Oil
1000mg - Omega 3
100mg - CoQ10 (Ubiquinol)
5000IU - Biotin
1000mg - Inosine
Multivitamin (every other day)
100mg - Diindolylmethane
Natural Testosterone Booster (3200mg D-Aspartic Acid, 600mg Testofen, 100mg LJ100, 50mg Zinc)
Acacetin Anti Aromatase (50mg 4'-Methoxy-5,7-dihydroxyflavone) Derived from Damiana
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Re: My Regimen (ridiculous?)

Postby Kronk » Mon Dec 16, 2013 4:16 pm

My regimen has been evolving since I dug myself out of depression at about the 3 month mark. I have added, removed, and replaced supplements based on what I felt was working, price, and supporting research. I will say that MS has led me to being in the best shape of my life through diet and exercise. I have lost 30+lbs that I really didn’t need to lose and my mindset is mostly positive now that I feel some degree of control of the disease.

The best part of establishing a regimen is the piece of mind that comes with doing everything possible to prevent the disease from taking control of your life. And if it should at least you will have a clear conscience that you did everything possible to prevent it. For me guilt is a big issue in that I have a young family to support. While I didn’t ask for this illness I still feel it…
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Re: My Regimen (ridiculous?)

Postby Kronk » Tue Dec 31, 2013 1:16 pm

I broke down the supplements and cost each month into an excel sheet... don't know how well it will translate to this board. Anyways its about the cost of a couple Starbucks coffee's a day. I plan on doing the testosterone, anti-armoatase and joint support every other month, just waiting on blood work from the doctor before I start.

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Last edited by Kronk on Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: My Regimen (ridiculous?)

Postby jimmylegs » Tue Dec 31, 2013 7:10 pm

hi kronk, a belated welcome to the forum :)
that is quite the regimen you have there! curious which tests you have ordered?
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: My Regimen (ridiculous?)

Postby NHE » Wed Jan 01, 2014 1:04 am

Kronk wrote:I broke down the supplements and cost each month into an excel sheet... don't know how well it will translate to this board.

You can always use the monospaced font option. Note that the forum software will take out more than one blank space so you can always use dots ...

site-support-f2/topic5284-15.html#p204414
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Re: My Regimen (ridiculous?)

Postby Kronk » Wed Jan 01, 2014 10:19 pm

jimmylegs wrote:curious which tests you have ordered?


Vitamin D
Testosterone
Estradiol or E2 an estrogen byproduct of testosterone.

Very interested in a study that showed low testosterone in female MS subjects and high estradiol in male subjects.
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Re: My Regimen (ridiculous?)

Postby jimmylegs » Thu Jan 02, 2014 8:48 am

definitely interesting! I have been looking into the connection between serum zinc status and serum testosterone levels. the connection has been demonstrated in research for men but I am still working on finding similar research for women. interesting given that zinc is known to be lower in both men and women with ms, compared to healthy controls.

you might be interested in a perusal of that 'readme' link in my auto signature.. (you have to cut and paste it into a new browser - it won't work as a link when in the signature field)

lots of info, but the 'serum targets' section would be particularly relevant if you are interested.
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: My Regimen (ridiculous?)

Postby Kronk » Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:02 am

I will be sure to do that!

There are many "natural" testosterone boosters available on the market now. Specifically marketed to bodybuidlders of which I am one. You may be interested that ALL of these formulas contain Zinc, along with Magnesium and D-Aspartic Acid which is a compound found in oysters

"Zinc has been strongly linked to the production of testosterone, a hormone that plays a vital role in regulating muscle growth. In addition to its effect on testosterone, zinc has also been shown to increase levels of growth hormone and IGF-1."

It says regulating muscle growth but I don’t think it’s a large jump to say it likely regulates the growth of many cells in the body, like those in the immune system. Zinc’s effect of IGF-1 is more interesting than testosterone though…

Studies have shown and demonstrated that IGF-1 can stimulate the protective covering around nerves known as the myelin sheath. In a degenerative disease like Multiple Sclerosis, ALS or Lou Gehrig's disease, damage around the sheath stops signals from being transmitted between the brain and nerves. IGF-1 has been found to regrow these sheaths according to scientists at the University of Michigan. It was discovered that IGF-1 was the most effective of the growth factors in inducing the growth of the myelin sheath and neuron cell. The researchers also found that IGF-1 helps the nerves remain normal and regrow even when diabetic conditions were present.

The IGF system is incredibly complex unfortunately and includes not only IGF-1 and IGF-2 and their receptors but also modulating IGF-binding proteins (IGFBPs), of which six have been identified.

In any case what do you recommend for a daily zinc supplementation? Is it entirely dependent on a blood test or is there a daily dose that would be beneficial?

Maybe I will order another blood test... its free here in Canada :)
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Re: My Regimen (ridiculous?)

Postby jimmylegs » Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:55 am

i like to have the test info in hand before coming up with a dose recommendation. also there are so many other factors to be considered and balanced. for example, do you consume gluten grains, refined flour products, high phytate foods, high oxalate foods, highglycemic index foods, sugar, alcohol, tobacco, certain drugs, etc. these can all affect zinc status. (and iron, magnesium, the list goes on..). not to mention things like activity level. we get a surprising (unsurprising?) number of athletes with neurological complaints making enquiries here.

if you can requisition serum zinc, serum magnesium, serum copper, and serum ferritin, these are all important and interrelated. for example the zinc copper ratio in serum should be 1.1:1 while the zinc to copper ratio in supplements should be 25:1. i find it all fascinating!

the key nutrients link has a section on serum targets for the various nutrients that i have not seen compiled elsewhere, although they are available in research if you go looking. blanket recommendations don't take into account individual variation in background levels or lifestyle.
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: My Regimen (ridiculous?)

Postby zjac020 » Sat May 03, 2014 9:06 am

Kronk...I would be very interested in knowing if youve managed to up your testosterone levels with your supplementation. I went from having testosterone levels right at the high end in 2011 to now having levels just below the minimum. there was no MS in 2011 but at the time were going through other concerns regarding my wifes health, so its not exactly as if my libido was through the roof (right now though.i must admit.its on the floor...).

As jimmylegs knows im working to up my serum zinc (I too really dont know if im supplementing enough) and am hoping that may help, but patience is not one of my strong points with this disease.

Kronk - do you prepare your own capsules?

lastly have either of you (kronk or jimmylegs) had a heavy metals hair test?
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Re: My Regimen (ridiculous?)

Postby jimmylegs » Sun May 04, 2014 6:56 pm

hi there, i have not had a heavy metals hair test, no.

and, given those march 2014 results for serum zinc, you know you have quite a way to go!

if you have revised your daily intake now, and were planning to recheck your zinc status in say june, perhaps you could have a testosterone level done at the same time. or just go by how you feel ;)
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: My Regimen (ridiculous?)

Postby ElliotB » Mon May 05, 2014 1:23 pm

I follow a very, very similar regimen (without Testesterone), along with a big change from my previous diet and continue regular exercise although not quite as vigorous as 'before' Thanks for sharing!
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Re: My Regimen (ridiculous?)

Postby Kronk » Wed May 07, 2014 7:17 pm

zjac020 wrote:Kronk...I would be very interested in knowing if youve managed to up your testosterone levels with your supplementation.


I had my testosterone tested and i am in the lower middle range at 20.2nmol/L (upper limit 28.8). The bigger concern was my estradiol which was in the upper range of 100pmol/L (upper limit 150). Really that's what I plan to take the anti-aromatase for. I still haven't taken it... will probably do so shortly.
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Re: My Regimen (ridiculous?)

Postby zjac020 » Wed May 21, 2014 3:39 pm

I started taking Psorex this week too and have been experiencing the flushing, sometimes more intensely than others.

Kronk - other than liver enzymes, anything else that needs to be monitored when taking Psorex?

Also, have you looked into NAG? Interesting info on some of the preliminary trials that were done on animals, although it being a supplement its obvious no big pharma company is going to invest in further trials. I think im going to include it in my regime.
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Re: My Regimen (ridiculous?)

Postby jimmylegs » Wed May 21, 2014 5:13 pm

fyi:

Dietary zinc deficiency alters 5 alpha-reduction and aromatization of testosterone and androgen and estrogen receptors in rat liver.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8613886
formation of estradiol from testosterone was significantly greater in rats fed the zinc-deficient diet compared with freely fed and pair-fed control rats
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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