Bloodwork - Zinc & Magnesium

Tell us what you are using to treat your MS-- and how you are doing.

Re: Bloodwork - Zinc & Magnesium

Postby jimmylegs » Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:01 pm

excellent!
jimmylegs
Volunteer Moderator
 
Posts: 9143
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 3:00 pm

Advertisement

Re: Bloodwork - Zinc & Magnesium

Postby THX1138 » Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:23 pm

Copper-Zinc Imbalance: Unrecognized Consequence of Plant-Based Diets and a Contributor to Chronic Fatigue

http://www.westonaprice.org/metabolic-disorders/copper-zinc-imbalance
THX1138
Family Elder
 
Posts: 447
Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 2:00 pm

Re: Bloodwork - Zinc & Magnesium

Postby THX1138 » Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:31 pm

Okay, so the problem with beans is that they have a lot of copper, zinc too, but much less so.
Maybe the phytates are not the real problem then ?
THX1138
Family Elder
 
Posts: 447
Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 2:00 pm

Re: Bloodwork - Zinc & Magnesium

Postby jimmylegs » Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:52 pm

ok imagine how i will respond to that question, and when you guess i'll tell you if you were right :D
jimmylegs
Volunteer Moderator
 
Posts: 9143
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 3:00 pm

Re: Bloodwork - Zinc & Magnesium

Postby THX1138 » Mon Apr 28, 2014 3:21 pm

Effect of reducing the phytate content and of partially hydrolyzing the protein in soy formula on zinc and copper absorption and status in infant rhesus monkeys and rat pups.
Lönnerdal B1, Jayawickrama L, Lien EL.
Author information

Abstract
BACKGROUND:
Although soy formulas have been designed to meet the nutrient requirements of human infants, they also contain phytate, which may negatively affect trace element absorption.

OBJECTIVE:
We evaluated the effect of removing phytate on zinc and copper absorption and status in infant rhesus monkeys and suckling rat pups and evaluated differences between intact and partially hydrolyzed soy protein.

DESIGN:
In monkeys, regular and low-phytate soy formulas were fed exclusively for 4 mo and whole-body absorption and retention of 65Zn, 67Cu, 59Fe, 54Mn, and 47Ca were determined at different time points with a whole-body counter. Subsequently, zinc and copper absorption from several human infant formulas and the effect of phytate concentration were evaluated in suckling rat pups by using 65Zn and 64Cu. Finally, infant rhesus monkeys were fed low-phytate formulas with intact or hydrolyzed soy protein for 4 mo and plasma zinc and copper were measured monthly.

RESULTS:
In the first monkey study, zinc absorption at 1 mo was higher from low-phytate soy formula (36%) than from regular soy formula (22%), whereas there was no significant difference between groups in the absorption of other minerals. Plasma copper was significantly lower in monkeys fed low-phytate soy formula from 2 to 4 mo. In rat pups, zinc absorption was significantly higher from low-phytate soy formula (78%) than from regular soy formula (51%) and hydrolysis of the protein had no significant effect. Phytate content or protein hydrolysis did not significantly affect copper absorption. In the second monkey study, plasma copper concentrations were highest in monkeys fed the low-phytate, hydrolyzed-protein soy formula.

CONCLUSION:
Reducing the phytate content and partially hydrolyzing the protein in soy formula had a beneficial effect on zinc and copper absorption and status in infant rhesus monkeys.
:?: :?:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10075335
THX1138
Family Elder
 
Posts: 447
Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 2:00 pm

Re: Bloodwork - Zinc & Magnesium

Postby jimmylegs » Mon Apr 28, 2014 5:36 pm

hmm nope that was not where i was going exactly. more along the lines of complexity vs single scapegoat, ie 'little bit from column a (phytates in legumes), little bit from column b (high copper levels in beans), little bit from the columns we don't know about yet'
jimmylegs
Volunteer Moderator
 
Posts: 9143
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 3:00 pm

Re: Bloodwork - Zinc & Magnesium

Postby THX1138 » Mon Apr 28, 2014 5:41 pm

...
more along the lines of 'little bit from column a, little bit from column b, little bit from the columns we don't know about yet'


Ah yes... a multi-vitamin supplement :wink:


Btw: I have this one now: Advanced Orthomolecular Research AOR, Multi Basics · 3

I just started it after not having a multi for many months.
THX1138
Family Elder
 
Posts: 447
Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 2:00 pm

Re: Bloodwork - Zinc & Magnesium

Postby jimmylegs » Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:38 pm

multi basics 3 is a pretty decent one :)
jimmylegs
Volunteer Moderator
 
Posts: 9143
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 3:00 pm

Re: Vit D3>125nmol/L min in blood. FIRST SMALL STEP for pwMS

Postby muse » Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:02 am

Hi Anonymoose, I’ve got my Mg-RBC and serum Mg test results back today but I'm still waiting for the Copper/Zinc panel.
Anyway, as expected (because of symptoms) I am pretty low in Magnesium although I’m supplementing with ~1500-2000mg (oral & transdermal) elemental! Magnesium a day since 2012.
Therefor my Mg-RBC came back with (correct) low: 3.8mg/dl (good would be ~6mg/dl, optimal/heaven would be 7mg/dl).
On the other hand the serum Magnesium was optimal with 1.97mg/dl (range 1.7 to 2.9 mg/dL) .
As I said serum Mg tests are beyond useless and a waste of time, $$$ and health!


"A serum magnesium test is actually worse than ineffective, because a test
result that is within normal limits lends a false sense of security about the
status of the mineral in the body. It also explains why doctors don't recognize
magnesium deficiency; they assume serum magnesium levels are an accurate
measure of all the magnesium in the body."

Dr. Carolyn Dean from 'The Magnesium Miracle'



"Since only 1% of total body Mg 2+ is found in the
intravascular space, serum levels of Mg 2+ give little
information about a patient's overall Mg 2+
status with respect to this essential mineral."

Burton B. Silver, PhD


Why Magnesium Blood Tests are not Accurate
Despite the Fact that Serum Magnesium in a standard blood test has been shown NOT to be a good measurement of magnesium levels in the body, the serum magnesium test is virtually the only test used to measure magnesium in a clinical setting!
http://www.easy-immune-health.com/magnesium-facts.html#section4
Last edited by muse on Fri May 02, 2014 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"MS" doesn't exist! - CCSVI dx Nov.2009, 1. angio LVJ & RVJ June 2010, 2. angio RVJ April 2011, January 2012 2. restenosis, reversed after ~1 year intake of high dosage Magnesium only. ThisIsCCSVIinMS: http://tinyurl.com/nwy5x58
User avatar
muse
Family Elder
 
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 2:00 pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: Vit D3>125nmol/L min in blood. FIRST SMALL STEP for pwMS

Postby Anonymoose » Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:48 am

Hi Muse,
I'm flabbergasted that you've taken that much magnesium for that long and you are still low! What on earth is going on with that?

I'll have to check my labs for units of serum mag, but, if I am remembering correctly, 1.97 mg/dl is within normal range but still suboptimal. I haven't looked at it in months, and they've been bumpy months, so I very well could be wrong. :)

I'm sure it'll take me ages to get my mag up too. Frustrating stuff, that mag is.
Anonymoose
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1046
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2012 6:33 am

Re: Vit D3>125nmol/L min in blood. FIRST SMALL STEP for pwMS

Postby jimmylegs » Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:20 am

On the other hand the serum Magnesium was optimal with 1.97mg/dl (range 1.7 to 2.2 mg/dL)
the range your lab is using is FAR from optimal. in fact, particularly bad.

it's known that magnesium deficiency occurs within commonly used normal ranges for serum magnesium, and lower cutoffs of 2.2 to 2.3 mg/dL have been proposed in more than one study.

here are some normal ranges i've seen at my local labs, and on the bloodwork of TiMS members over time:

0.65-1.05 mmol/L (1.6-2.6 mg/dL)
0.70-1.10 mmol/L (1.7-2.7 mg/dL) (this is what my lab uses)
0.70-1.0 mmol/L (1.7-2.4 mg/dL)
0.74-1.0 mmol/L (1.8-2.4 mg/dL)
0.65-1.1 mmol/L (1.6-2.7 mg/dL)

with serum mag you need to be 2.3-2.7 mg/dL.. your low serum mag and low RBC mag are conistent with each other - you still have quite a ways to go.

THX was in a similar situation and we've been having some success through working with magnesium cofactors. do you know what your b6, potassium, and zinc status is like? what are you doing in terms of hydration and fatty acids? we could discuss in a separate topic, perhaps here would be good: natural-approach-f27/topic18568-90.html
see you over there :)
jimmylegs
Volunteer Moderator
 
Posts: 9143
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 3:00 pm

Re: Vit D3>125nmol/L min in blood. FIRST SMALL STEP for pwMS

Postby muse » Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:26 am

Anonymoose wrote:Hi Muse,
I'm flabbergasted that you've taken that much magnesium for that long and you are still low! What on earth is going on with that?


I'm most likely Magnesium deficient and therefor Copper ‘toxic’ from birth (my symptoms and the symptoms of my mother are telling me that), Anonymoose.

-Copper eats up Zinc (Zn is a Cu antagonist).
-Without Zinc there is no Vitamin B6 production possible.
-Without B6 you can't get Magnesium inside the cell.

1. result => Calcium overload/tissue calcification (e.g. blood vessels)=> chronic inflammation=> disease & death
2. result => no stress regulation anymore => stress eats up even more Magnesium and more Zinc => the circle starts again and again until you are death. Period.
"MS" doesn't exist! - CCSVI dx Nov.2009, 1. angio LVJ & RVJ June 2010, 2. angio RVJ April 2011, January 2012 2. restenosis, reversed after ~1 year intake of high dosage Magnesium only. ThisIsCCSVIinMS: http://tinyurl.com/nwy5x58
User avatar
muse
Family Elder
 
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 2:00 pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: Vit D3>125nmol/L min in blood. FIRST SMALL STEP for pwMS

Postby jimmylegs » Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:45 am

ok all sounding familiar and consistent. do you have a serum zinc level on file? the serum ranges for that one are just as bad.. aim for 120 ug/dL.
what are you doing for dietary and supplemental zinc, iima?
see related discussion here (we can continue the discussion there if you like :) ):
regimens-f22/topic24081.html
jimmylegs
Volunteer Moderator
 
Posts: 9143
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 3:00 pm

Re: Vit D3>125nmol/L min in blood. FIRST SMALL STEP for pwMS

Postby muse » Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:49 am

Jimmylegs, I've got the “okay” message from the Pathology lab, which did the test. Perhaps the reference range of this particularly lab is different from yours, which wouldn’t be uncommon. Otherwise I’m a big fan of C. Dean and her colleagues M. Robbins if it comes to interpretations of Mg-results and I’m already working with M.R. on my problem.
No, I didn’t get B6 and I’m still waiting for copper.
Zn is 12.6 umol/L, Cp 24g/L and Potassium 3.9mg/dl. I’m well hydrated and I’ve learned what to eat and what not eat! :wink:
"MS" doesn't exist! - CCSVI dx Nov.2009, 1. angio LVJ & RVJ June 2010, 2. angio RVJ April 2011, January 2012 2. restenosis, reversed after ~1 year intake of high dosage Magnesium only. ThisIsCCSVIinMS: http://tinyurl.com/nwy5x58
User avatar
muse
Family Elder
 
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 2:00 pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: Vit D3>125nmol/L min in blood. FIRST SMALL STEP for pwMS

Postby jimmylegs » Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:00 am

i'm sure the lab did say okay.. it's the research that says otherwise (see ismail et al 2010 for just one example)

as for zinc, if you're working in umol/L, average serum levels in healthy controls are in the 18-19 umol/L range.

where you say Cp do you mean Cu? if so that number is definitely way too high and should come down nicely if you push the zinc into the optimal range.

i've seen healthy control copper at around 17 to 17.5 umol/L. zinc at 18 and copper at 17 are consistent with an optimal serum zinc to copper ratio of 1.1.

potassium looks okay - i expect you'll see marked improvement in your mag absorption (and probably a bunch of other things as well), if you can get zinc from 12 up to 18, and copper from 24 down to 17.
jimmylegs
Volunteer Moderator
 
Posts: 9143
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 3:00 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Regimens

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users


Contact us | Terms of Service