all things vitamin D

mrhodes40 · Post by **mrhodes40** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 10:14 am

Thanks Sarah a most excellant paper! Did you notice this little section?

Proliferation of both freshly isolated CD4+ T cells and MBP-specific T cells was significantly inhibited by 1,25(OH)(2)D(3). Moreover, activated Vitamin D enhanced the development of IL-10 producing cells, and reduced the number of IL-6 and IL-17 secreting cells

that's reason enough right there to not do the MP; 1,25D is not acting like a steroid, it is slowing down the parts of the immune system that need slowing down in MS....and increasing the parts that need increasing.

Now if an MPer was here they would tell an elaborate story about how this does not count because it was done in a lab dish, as if fresh blood behavior in a lab dish is completely different than in the body.

they would point to this section as support for themselves though

Interestingly, T cells were able to metabolize 25(OH)D(3) into biologically active 1,25(OH)(2)D(3), since T cells express alpha1-hydroxylase constitutively

What that says is that the t cells turned 25D into 1,25d, they have been claiming this is because the germs are making this happen. In fact activated macrophages can convert 25d to 1,25d in a local area like that, that is known. But that does not result in overall high 1,25d as the other papers show and it also is not a bad thing for the 1,25d to be there as it modultes the immune system in a very positive way for MS.

this little bit

Notably, Vitamin D receptor expression was induced by 1,25(OH)(2)D(3) in both activated and resting cell

is important because note that the VDR was activated no problem by the 1,25d. This is another aspect of vitamin D activity the MPers say is not working in MS because the VDR, they say, is inactivated by 25d. No evidence of that either.

All in all I hope pwMS who are considering this marshall protocol learn what they say over there then read this thread. Many people who never studied the MP will find this information a little confusing, but to those who already drank the koolaide, the more detailed infor will be welcome.

lyndacarol · Post by **lyndacarol** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:19 am

RuSmolikova--

Thank you for posting the link to the WEALTH of information on the vitamin D/MS connection. I have only started reviewing the information, but already it raises old questions. The first one concerns the Lapps or Lapplanders. They live VERY far north in Scandinavia with very little sunshine (i.e. vitamin D); caribou makes up the majority of their diet; yet, MS is virtually nonexistent among these people. Why is that?

Under the vitamin D hypothesis, MS should be rampant in that population. Likewise, among the Eskimos (Inuit). EDIT: I now know that their diet is rich in vitamin D.

Post by **jimmylegs** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:40 am

http://www.baiki.org/content/glossary.htm
The Sami diet is simple and healthy. It consists of fish caught in lakes, rivers and the ocean, reindeer meat that is dried in the sun, smoked, or cooked in a stew with potatoes, and cloudberries and mushrooms gathered from the forests and bogs. Shredded carrots, sliced peppers amd bok choy often accompany a Sami meal as do bread, cheese and coffee.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inuit_diet#Seal
Seal meat is the most important aspect of an Inuit diet and is often the largest part of an Inuit hunter’s diet.[1] Depending on the season, Inuit hunt for different types of seal: harp seal, harbor seal, and bearded seal. Ringed seals are hunted all year, while harp seals are only available during the summer.[2]

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=17514649
The trace-element content of seal meat is very high, particularly iron (379 μg/g muscle in hooded seal) and zinc (30 μg/g muscle in harp seal), as also is the vitamin content, especially vitamins A, D3 and B12.

mrhodes40 · Post by **mrhodes40** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:50 am

But Inuits vitamin D intake wasn’t dependent upon the sun. They get all that they need from their diet, heavy on types of fatty fish that are naturally rich in vitamin D. The plentiful amounts of the vitamin kept them from developing less melanin. In fact, before milk was fortified with D, people living outside of Northern Canada and Alaska loaded their diets with fishy products, such as cod liver oil, to get their daily supplement. So despite their chilly climate and lack of sun exposure, it’s the Inuit diet that has kept them in their natural glow.

from http://scienceline.org/2007/06/18/ask-d ... iteskimos/

lyndacarol · Post by **lyndacarol** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 12:03 pm

deleted

mrhodes40 · Post by **mrhodes40** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 3:53 pm

My, good job WW!! I am so glad for your son! it is good to ear someone si following up the d link with something positive to do. And gee, this is spring when our d levels are lowest. Probably be great in the fall!

Wonderfulworld · Post by **Wonderfulworld** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:15 am

Thanks JL and MrR...yes I'm keeping on with the "drops" for him and am allowing him about 10 mins sun exposure a day without sunscreen - hopefully his levels will rise even further and by the next time of testing in June he will be in a really healthy range.

He even knows what I mean when I say "can you find your drops?" and fishes them out for me, hands them to me and then lies still with his mouth open. He thinks they are a treat and grins afterwards!

I am just so happy to at least try to help reduce his risk from this *%$*@#* disease, IYKWIM.

Wonderfulworld · Post by **Wonderfulworld** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:21 am

The Sami diet is also naturally gluten-free.... as a coeliac MS'er I noticed that a few years ago when I watched a documentary on them. They are, in essence, following a mesolithic diet - one that predated the farmers in the neolithic and the introduction of gluten (oats, wheat, barley, rye), chicken eggs, dairy etc. The BBD in effect.

Although I think the coffee was probably not around in mesolithic times

sou · Post by **sou** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:51 am

Hi.

Just a clarification, with the risk of repeating somebody else.

The term "steroids" refers to a class of fat soluble molecules capable of crossing cell membranes. Steroid hormones activate receptors at the interior of the cell, which can do several things, usually promoting expression of certain genes, altering parameters of the metabolism and behavior of the cell.

Not all steroids act on the same receptors. Each has its very own specific role.

sou

mrhodes40 · Post by **mrhodes40** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:34 pm

Thanks Sou!

I can always use clarification. I often get lost in the weeds explaining myself trying to make it simple I can lose clarity, please feel free to help me out if you can!

RuSmolikova · Post by **RuSmolikova** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:34 pm

lyndacarol wrote:...but already it raises old questions. The first one concerns the Lapps or Lapplanders. They live VERY far north in Scandinavia with very little sunshine (i.e. vitamin D); caribou makes up the majority of their diet; yet, MS is virtually nonexistent among these people. Why is that?

I have a similar Q: Why there is so many MS patients in Australia? A lot of sun, and perhaps plenty fish oil in their food...
The fact that MS is rare around the exuator is connected with the sunshine only, isn´t it? Could there be a difference in parasite rates (hook worms) in different regions?
How about Lapps and Escymos and possible parasites? Do they eat raw meat or the hung one?

peekaboo · Post by **peekaboo** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:49 pm

Ru -

The fact that MS is rare around the exuator is connected with the sunshine only, isn´t it?

not just sunshine but civilization environmental toxins industry etc.

Post by **jimmylegs** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 3:56 pm

to my understanding population in oz is mainly in the southeast spreading up the east coast in a narrow band, with a dense little population pocket in the southwest also.
in northern oz you're about as far from the equator as, say, mexico. in the southeast of australia you can get to be as far from the equator as parts of the northeastern US and the southernmost parts of canada.
as to diet.. i was only there for a few months but certainly plenty of fish and chips seem to get consumed in australia.. and on my work crew we were big fans of tinned tuna.. not the best options available, but certainly widespread and cheap.

cheerleader · Post by **cheerleader** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:06 pm

peekaboo wrote:Ru -

The fact that MS is rare around the exuator is connected with the sunshine only, isn´t it?
not just sunshine but civilization environmental toxins industry etc.

I think there's also a genetic component. Oz was settled by brits- who have higher MS rates. Mostly native populations live along the equator (think Central America, Africa) The aboriginal people in Australia don't have MS, it's the white folk who came from Europe. Same in South Africa.

That said- toxins, viruses, antibiotics, metals, stress, saturated fats, high glucose, pesticides and all the modern civ. baddies promote autoimmune disease, inflammation and endothelial dysfunction. Genetic predisposition combined with environmental triggers....bang.
AC

RuSmolikova · Post by **RuSmolikova** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:44 pm

cheerleader wrote:I think there's also a genetic component. Oz was settled by brits- who have higher MS rates.

Good point! Thanks.

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all things vitamin D

Thank you, RuSmolikova

Thank you, friends

Re: Thank you, RuSmolikova