Jimmylegs...too much vitamin d = ouch?

[jimmylegs]

you could certainly try it out though. I still don't get why you would be reacting badly to magnesium. can you describe exactly what you mean by 'amping up the nerves'?

anon can you do me a favour, go into your profile, go to edit signature, and put all your most recent test results in there? there's a character limit but the context would help a lot when assessing new info

i'll have to get back to you re la la land ;D

JL

[Anonymoose]

Nice picture. Lol

Okay. Scrapping the big supplement. I just finished reading a four week bone health diet plan written by a nutritionist. By the time I reached the halfway point, I was cracking open a cold one...my first cheat. I will try to get it all from diet. My boys are going to die or put a hit on me.

What do you think of moringa? http://meds2herbs.blogspot.com/p/moringa.html It is a food...

[jimmylegs]

will have to read up. tell me about your magnesium nerve amping thing.

[Anonymoose]

Normally my legs have a minor amount of reduced sensitivity that I don't notice. The zinc and magnesium make it a bit frizzy-frazzled feeling...more numb and not tingly but irritated. You should know better than to expect a decent explanation of a sensory issue!

[jimmylegs]

ok weird. thanks for the numerator of the units on the zn and cu. the denominator is /dL I take it? if so, looks all good

all right so you need to focus on d3 iron and magnesium the most. tough to figure out all the interactions! :S

remind me how much elemental iron is delivered in your current iron supplement?

[Anonymoose]

I figured you knew the rest after ug! And you did. ;)

25mg iron before bed with juice right now. Thinking about moving it so I can *eat* calcium before bed.

I'm ditching the mineral supplements except for iron. I don't want to be stuck in a perpetual dance with imbalance! Got a problem though...the nutritionist's plan depends on a cup or more of raw kale in a calcium rich smoothie. Uh. Did she not hear about oxalic acid? Spinach won't work either (grrr...i love spinach in smoothies!) What to do?? Ignore the ox in the blender? Cook the greens to eat with a different meal? Btw, I'm easing into this one meal (breakfast first) at a time so don't get all crazy on me! Lol

Don't knock yourself out trying to do homework and mind my many little crises. I can wait.

[jimmylegs]

just iron for a while sounds good. you could probably handle upping it to 50mg every other day, 25mg on the in between days. then a retest to see where things are at.

the kale is not as bad as spinach for oxalic acid. and it's not like you have to have it every day forever right. if you start to feel gouty, you just stop. (weird side note - I ate a lot of rhubarb a few weeks back and felt it in my foot RIGHT AWAY. ate half as much a day or two later and it felt all right. no kidney stones so far ;) )

why wouldn't spinach work exactly? it appears to have more calcium than kale (according to whfoods anyway).

CRAZY storm outside tonight. made a good call staying close to campus this eve

[Anonymoose]

Oxalic acid interferes with calcium absorption. That's the problem! Spinach has it too. I'll just try it and see what happens.

No storms here tonight but it's colder than a witches icebox...that run to the store for the new diet is going to have to wait. Broke the new diet news to the boys...they took it pretty well. What in the world?!

I'm getting more sensation back in my hands every day (better than pre-rituxan now...could be the iron or the rituxan or both...who knows?) so I am reluctant to mess with the 25mg iron. I'll retest ferritin or iron next week. If it isn't going up significantly, I'll try your plan.

Oh and thanks!

[jimmylegs]

OH yea well then you're probably fine with the raw kale and the lower calcium. there's so much more calcium in spinach though. wonder how much interference is caused by the oxalic acid.

glad the boys didn't flip out

also. awesome that your hands are feeling better! sounds great re testing next week! please do serum ferritin at a minimum

*yawn* almost beddie byes

[Anonymoose]

On this magnesium vitamin d connection...magnesium is required for what? D3 conversion to 25OH?

Tinnitus has been louder since started with calcium. So I started wondering about mag deficiency (and popped 200mg mag because I'm like that...no calcium supplement for two days and so far so good.) Is the nerve amping issue because magnesium helps 25OH production along, increasing availability for conversion to calcitriol which in combination with supplemental calcium makes things start to go slightly wonky in the vitamin d way again?

Looking for that answer, I found this...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/34 ... 61/related

Administration of 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3 [1,25(OH)2D3] can lower the serum concentration of 25-hydroxyvitamin (25-OH-D). To determine if 1,25(OH)2D3 lowers serum 25-OH-D by increasing clearance or reducing production, we directly measured the metabolic clearance rate (MCR) of 25-OH-D in rats chronically infused with 1,25(OH)2D3. Chronic 1,25(OH)2D3 administration (0 to 75 pmol/d) reduced, in a time- and dose-dependent fashion, the serum concentrations of 25-OH-D3 and 24,25(OH)2D3 from 18 +/- 2 to 9 +/- 1 ng/ml and from 4.8 +/- 0.7 to 1.3 +/- 0.3 ng/ml, respectively, and increased sevenfold the in vitro conversion of 25-OH-D to 24,25(OH)2D3 by kidney homogenates. The reduction in serum 25-OH-D3 was completely accounted for by an increase in MCR. No change in production occurred. The influence of 1,25(OH)2D3 on serum 25-OH-D3 and 24,25(OH)2D3 was shown not to be dependent on induction of hypercalcemia. These data suggest that chronic 1,25(OH)2D3 administration lowers serum 25-OH-D by increasing the metabolic clearance of 25-OH-D3 and not by decreasing its production.

That explains the huge drop in 25OH...and nothing else!

[Anonymoose]

Answered my own question, I think. Magnesium is necessary for conversion to 25OH and calcitriol. So, it could be helping calcitriol along either way.

I think I'm jumping ship on the high calcium/magnesium diet for now. (Unless you can convince me to do otherwise)

I'm just going to stop everything but iron and b complex when needed and see how things come out in a few months. I'll get labs done next week too. Unless I start feeling bad, I'm just going to trust that my body is doing what it needs to do re: vitamin d, calcium, and magnesium levels. "They" believe the high calcitriol in sarcoidosis may be a protective mechanism as it suppresses some immune cells. Maybe it's protective in this case too. If ignoring the low levels winds up making me feel worse, I'll have to re-evaluate. (I should just go to the doctor but that would mean a bunch of new crazy tests and likely no answers...passing for now!)

I *will* be eating better just because I'm taking the kitchen back over.

[jimmylegs]

heya sounds good - why not just work on the iron for a while, (with b-complex if needed) and then, once serum ferritin tests at a decent level, move on to the next target.
you can still work on keeping good magnesium dense foods in the mix. glad you'll be eating better!

[Anonymoose]

Here we go again...

I think my vitamin d has completely crashed. A few days ago fatigue returned and I developed a funny feeling head...can't describe it even to myself. Sensory wise everything was calm...felt great actually. So, I took 5000iu d3 in the evening and was back to normal the next day. I didn't want to keep taking it because I am doing bloodwork next Tuesday so I didn't take any d yesterday. I woke up at 2am with funny head again. Took 5000iu d3 and went back to sleep. Didn't work. Took bone builder w/cal, mag, 600iu d3 and all that other stuff. Still didn't work. Took 5000iu d3...worked on the head but didn't completely wipe out fatigue. Just took 200mg mag and waiting to see what happens. (I know I will need to up mag intake and I'm still taking iron and b complex).

Sooo, how much are my tests going to be screwed up if I keep taking vitamin d? Should I test on Monday so I have at least one less day of supplementing? If my levels are behaving linearly, the d should be down to 14 by Tuesday (without supplement). How much can a few days of supplementing 10,000iu's mess that up? I want to get tested now so I have an idea of what the 1,25OH is and if I should expect the return of the ouch.

Good lord I can't wait to be "normal" again!

(Jimmy you need a little jumper box for your car. I've already had to use mine 5 times this winter. Loads of fun! NOT! But better than waiting for help. )

[jimmylegs]

heya, bummer

your case is such a pain anon. working on lots of things makes your legs feel funny. working on one thing, your head feels funny. stop being so difficult! ;D

tough when we know you have iron, mag and d3 issues all at once. grr!

how's your food been the last week or so?

anyway. yea with the car, the battery turned over merrily the whole time. but it wasn't getting any gas (probably frozen condensation in the line??) so, stuck I was. when the tow showed up on day 3, he had me hold the pedal to the floor for SO LONG to get it running.. I never would have tried that by myself for fear of flooding. but I had probably flooded it regardless just by trying to start repeatedly. just learned some neat tricks about computers and flooding and engine codes: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 554AAt1EsC

[Anonymoose]

The battery turned over?? I would say that's a problem. Glad you are free again...even though I think you dragged the ordeal out longer so you could order greasy chicken wings...

Food. Uh. Almonds (sprouted), almond butter, apples, avocado, blackbeans (lots), blackberry jam, BREAD (whole grain or sprouted), broccoli, brown rice, cabbage, cantaloupe (lots), cauliflower, clams, cod, diet cokes (3 cans), egg, french fries, granola bar, green beans, ice cream, muesli (that I ruined by adding unshelled hemp seeds...too early for that loud of a crunch!), oatmeal, orange juice (lots), peanut butter crackers, pickles, pizza, popcorn, potatoes, red pepper, salsa, soysage, sunflower seed butter, tilapia, tomatoes, tofu, tortilla, tortilla chips, tuna, water (200 gallons), yellow pepper...probably some other stuff too.

I've upped the fish acceptables and intake to cut out more gluten. There really aren't a lot of fish out there that pack a lot of good nutrients. Would get halibut but it's a mercury magnet. Will have wild salmon delivered this week with a bunch of kale and other things that make jimmylegs happy.

Now that I've answered all of your food questions, you didn't answer my supplement/testing question!! Or does no answer mean "I don't know?" And I am in complete agreement with you re: my case.